BLU for Duty Finder and Raids! Show your support!

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Originally Posted by jon041065

This situation just has extra side content into the mix that hopefully won't be removed.

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If Diadem is still in the game, I think the Masked Carnival is safe.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Unlike what they did for a lot of jobs up until this point, this time they wanted to keep the iconic kind of toolkit Blue Magic had to offer in previous titles. This toolkit doesn't correspond to the strict design space and balance that is imposed on regular jobs. So, in order to do that, they created a new type of jobs: limited jobs.

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But they could've given BLU all of that and still made them an unlimited job by giving them a parallel skillset, like they do for PvP for all jobs. They already implemented a lot of things we asked for, like locking content behind skill acquisition instead of level, and saying we'd need to divise a rotation using the skills we have (and mind you, just because BLMs have Enochian and Fire IV doesn't mean we don't see BLMs spamming Blizzard in 60+ content, so their concern for BLU specifically is again laughable). BLU is already halfway to the hybrid job many of us want it to be, they just don't go the rest of the way and they have repeatedly failed in supplying good reasons, least of all ones that weren't contradicted or fell apart the next time they talked about BLU.

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anyone with a little bit of game design knowledge would be able to understand why they took this decision, and what goal they wanted to achieve.

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Hi, software engineer with background in game design and over a decade of experience under my belt here. No, I don't get it. Feel free to share with the rest of the class. Because right now the only reason I see to this current design, without them saying this is a beta/testing phase, is laziness.

In my opinion, they should use what we're getting from the limited job and use it as a backbone to produce a "proper" version of Blue Mage. Keep the learning mechanic and the spell book, but make that a Masked Carnival specific set of things. So for regular content you have something closer to Red Mage and Black Mage, but once you jump in the Masked Carnival you get exactly what we're getting now with all the absurd skills. Instead of fighting Shiva with all those absurd skills, you fight her normally to learn that action.

Honestly, I'd like to see more content like the Masked Carnival, but limited jobs still seem lackluster to me... If you instead take the aspects of jobs that can't work (so for Blue Mage, learning Lv5 Death) and put that in content like the Masked Carnival? That'd be great IMO. Ninja, for example, is not remotely a stealth job, because stealth gameplay isn't going to really function in combat, but Masked Carnival style content could have a strong focus on stealth just like some of the class quests did. Should the Ninja we have now be deleted and turned into a limited job because "stealth gameplay wont work in XIV"? Of course not. Same logic applies for Blue Mage. I think it can absolutely be a real job, while still remaining faithful to its routes, just give it a Learn skill/s as the focal point for its job gauge; You use it on an enemy and you get a specific skill that just changes name/animation based on the target, the potency/etc remains the same though. Simple to balance, true to Blue Mages themes, only thing it misses is the absurd potency and effects, which I honestly don't think anyone really cares about... Nobody was ever going to riot if Blue Mage didn't get Lv5 Death that worked, so why the developers decided to force this limited job concept solely to keep those kinds of effects? IDK...

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Originally Posted by kikix12

That is 100% misinformation. The person completely omitted the fact that Yoshida only used Bad Breath once (poison damage portion is 10 potency poison over 15sec...so pitiful) and a different 10 potency attack few times. Both Bad Breath (slow, 10% damage down, paralyze, 40% heavy, blindness and aforementioned poison for 15sec and 1sec silence) and that other attack are utility spells (10 potency instant-cast with 1sec silence debuff). They are not for dealing damage. Once he decided to kill it he just did show a long cast of 1000 needles that took all the remaining life.

When he used the most basic spell that is gotten with the class, with 120 potency, he took half of a lvl30 mobs life at once. And there are certainly going to be higher potency spells out there that'd easily overkill it.

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I'm sure thy will max it around 120-260 for fast cast spells but anything strong thy may do it to but i bet the cost will be really high like 5k plus or more because thy not going to let us spam it like at shiva bow attack it did 346 damage so i Don't think its abt the damage at all its abt combo system why blue mage Can't queue for duth finder with it mess up

Note to everyone play FF 14 IF I remember correctly lvl 5 death is in the lvl 59 library dungeon so we Can't get it anyway so hmm point fingers at director i really Don't want blue mage out doing my black mage Tht's wat i see its all bs because smn out doing blm Tht's why he hte smn if u all remember he was saying he didn't want to add SMN at first now he doing it again with blue mage hmmmm think on it.. But with blue mage he really kick out because blue mage really beat SMN hands down

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Originally Posted by kikix12

That is 100% misinformation. The person completely omitted the fact that Yoshida only used Bad Breath once (poison damage portion is 10 potency poison over 15sec...so pitiful) and a different 10 potency attack few times. Both Bad Breath (slow, 10% damage down, paralyze, 40% heavy, blindness and aforementioned poison for 15sec and 1sec silence) and that other attack are utility spells (10 potency instant-cast with 1sec silence debuff). They are not for dealing damage. Once he decided to kill it he just did show a long cast of 1000 needles that took all the remaining life.

When he used the most basic spell that is gotten with the class, with 120 potency, he took half of a lvl30 mobs life at once. And there are certainly going to be higher potency spells out there that'd easily overkill it.

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Thanks for pointing that out. Well at least that solves the problem with the killing of trash monsters but sadly I still wonder how someone could kill dungeon bosses or even primals solo. (Since this was promoted as solo job) And if those cant be done solo and you need a group then that does not sound like something a lot of the more casual player base would want to do.

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Originally Posted by Starcake28

Note to everyone play FF 14 IF I remember correctly lvl 5 death is in the lvl 59 library dungeon so we Can't get it anyway

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Yoshida specifically talked about that in the last live-letter. He said that we won't be able to get that spell until the level cap is increased to 60, probably because of where that spell can be learned (HW content). Which only makes real sense if you say BLU won't be able to learn skills while unsynced, which would be a horrible design decision in and of itself.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

But they could've given BLU all of that and still made them an unlimited job by giving them a parallel skillset, like they do for PvP for all jobs. They already implemented a lot of things we asked for, like locking content behind skill acquisition instead of level, and saying we'd need to divise a rotation using the skills we have (and mind you, just because BLMs have Enochian and Fire IV doesn't mean we don't see BLMs spamming Blizzard in 60+ content, so their concern for BLU specifically is again laughable). BLU is already halfway to the hybrid job many of us want it to be, they just don't go the rest of the way and they have repeatedly failed in supplying good reasons, least of all ones that weren't contradicted or fell apart the next time they talked about BLU.

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I feel like you didn't even read my post. You simply saw my name and tried to argue against me without even understanding what I was saying. Because I already said that it wasn't about them being able to do it or not a way or another. Could have they came up with a concept for a regular job Blue Mage? Yes. They simply chose another route.
I have literally no idea why you went on about "they could have done it if they did this and that!". The theorical possibility of doing it is something I never argued against. (What I often argue against are the bad and flawed ideas and suggestions people throw on the table as if they were perfect. But that's another story.)

And I also conceeded that some of their justifications are indeed weak. No need to repeat to me what I already said.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Hi, software engineer with background in game design and over a decade of experience under my belt here. No, I don't get it. Feel free to share with the rest of the class. Because right now the only reason I see to this current design, without them saying this is a beta/testing phase, is laziness.

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You don't understand what kind of creative freedom for a low investment in balance does limited jobs provide? If you don't get what are the benefits of not having to make a job fit into the very narrow space that the current regular job balance requires, then you are literally asking me how are jobs balanced in this game and why is it restrictive to the point that it made Square Enix, the very creators of this game and the Final Fantasy franchise, felt that it was a good idea to take a different approach for one job that has been consistantly playing with weirdness and the boundaries of the game design space in previous titles.
And that's something I shouldn't have to explain to someone claiming to have a background in game design. Which is why I actually don't believe that you don't understand. I suspect that you are just so frustrated that you don't want to understand. Also -despite your claims regarding your experience- you act like ressources are infinite, and that they "could do it" without considering one second that investing in making Blue Mage "DF ready" is simply not something they determined to be worthwhile.

In short, "just make an entirely new set of skills balanced like all the other jobs so I can do my daily roulettes!" is something people often say lately, without understanding what would be necessary for it to happen.

I'm sorry that you don't understand the game design benefits of limited jobs. I'm also sorry that you don't understand the underlying consequences of what you are asking. Especially since you claimed to have a background in game design. And finally, I have to give you an apology. When I said that "anyone with a little bit of game design knowledge would be able to understand", it was implied that what was needed was a "little bit of good game design knowledge". Sorry if that wasn't clear enough.
Regardless, "I don't understand why they did that, so I'll simply say that they are lazy" is not the mark of a good game designer. At least, you never claimed to be one. That being said, if you think that you are, feel free to send them your resume.

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Tl;dr: Would it be nice if BLU was somehow DF and raid ready? Sure. But it's not, and the reasons why are obvious. Sorry if you don't understand them.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Sorry if you don't understand them.

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Disagreeing with something does not mean I don't understand it. Would be nice if you understood that.
As I said before, they've already gone halfway to what most of us are asking for, and with weak justification as to not go the rest of the way. They can keep their precious creative freedom in the Masked Carnival. So far, their hiding behind excuses to not let BLU be in regular gameplay only implies a lack of creativity since they can't seem to find a way to balance both sides, despite, again, already going halfway there, and many of us handing them solutions on a silver platter.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Disagreeing with something does not mean I don't understand it. Would be nice if you understood that.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Hi, software engineer with background in game design and over a decade of experience under my belt here. No, I don't get it. Feel free to share with the rest of the class. Because right now the only reason I see to this current design, without them saying this is a beta/testing phase, is laziness.

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Dude...
*sigh*

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Hi, software engineer with background in game design and over a decade of experience under my belt here. No, I don't get it. Feel free to share with the rest of the class. Because right now the only reason I see to this current design, without them saying this is a beta/testing phase, is laziness.

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Laziness is 100% a valid reason.

Or more specifically, currently blu, at least as it has been presented to the public, seems to largely be the work of one guy as a pet project, which is why it's some goofball side progression. If it were a normal job, that one guy wouldn't be the only one involved, everyone else on the usual team that does this sort of thing would have to work on it to make sure that it's balanced and fits the mold. This team is already going to be working on all the new ShB abilities, and the ability reorganization, and the other 2 (cooler by default because blu is lame and boring) jobs. Fitting a third job into that is almost assuredly too resource intensive (see previous difficulty with 3 jobs in hw).

You are, of course, free to think they should have done... whatever they needed to do to get blu in as a real job. Whether that's cut one of the other jobs, or hire more people, or delay the launch of ShB. But for me, given the choice between what we are getting and any of the above, (minus hire more people, maybe) I would definitely take what we are currently getting.

But only if not adding a crap job like blu isn't an option because that would have been the best thing to do.