Final Fantasy XIV and a Culture of Enabling

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

ROFL Parsing in the DF is the ultimate level of sad. Its not even worth running ACT in DF as bad play is obivious :D

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From what my friends tell me parsing during roulettes actually make them worse because you can see it even clearer.

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Originally Posted by Nethereal

From what my friends tell me parsing during roulettes actually make them worse because you can see it even clearer.

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Yeah parsing in DF is the ultimate form of depression within this game. You puts a number to all the suspicious things one may have had prior.

Not endorsing it, but if anything this data serves to prove my point. Math does not lie. However, due to ToS we can't really apply this data ingame.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

You really need to be clear when you keep saying "or SCH" - nowhere in your posts did it sound as if you meant you get your free leveling via SMN, only that somehow SCH was an easier healer despite it requiring the same thing you claim you weren't paying attention to/now claim it's simply inability to do anything with the party menu via controller.

Clarity goes a long way so people don't misunderstand. Though really, I raided with a WHM who managed controller party menu movement far more easily than I think I even manage my kb+m setup, so it's something that can be improved on.

Though I suppose this illustrates a few points brought up elsewhere in the thread, so. /shrug



If there was context before the last page, I may have missed it. Because I saw no context other than randomly mentioning "or SCH" when referring to playing healers for titles. That is not enough for everyone to take that as "leveling SMN instead" when it isn't mentioned anywhere.

Clarity goes a long way.

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The context is wanting to level a healer job, but not wanting to play as a healer in group content. The alternatives are leveling a healer job solo or Scholar. If you're not familiar enough with Scholar for that to be clear enough for you, it's fine.

That said...

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Either way, their later admittance of it not being a problem of attention but of practice simply feeds into many points brought up elsewhere in the thread. And really, my point was less their side thing regarding not being able to manage a basic fundamental task of healing, but more the overall truth that this game's community in particular fosters a very coddling and toxic environment where people are willfully defending the sort of players who will actively drag the enjoyment, time, and effort of others down because they are selfish and do not understand their own responsibility in a team-based environment.

Most other games have toxic elitism, and XIV also has that in some circles. But I can tell you, the most toxic and rancid individuals I've met in this game have been people adhering to the casualist mindset of "screw you, I can do whatever I want because only I matter".

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You cannot make the logical conclusion of why Scholar is unique in being able to level a healer without being a healer in group content, and yet you somehow get...

"the overall truth that this game's community in particular fosters a very coddling and toxic environment where people are willfully defending the sort of players who will actively drag the enjoyment, time, and effort of others down because they are selfish and do not understand their own responsibility in a team-based environment. "

...out of me saying I don't do group content as a healer because I am not good at it.

That's an illogical conclusion you're getting from my post. Did you even understand my post at all? It would certainly explain why you were unable to understand why Scholar was mentioned as it was not randomly mentioned.

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Originally Posted by Nayout

This explains many things lol

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Like what? (And I hope you actually read what you quoted and understood it, unlike Kaoru_Nagisa apparently.)

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Originally Posted by Seera1024

So someone who picks up the game and is a natural at it, finds it hard to understand how someone can spend hours on trying to learn the game and not get to where they were when they started the game.

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Originally Posted by Seera1024

And then to vent all of the above since you can't really vent to the player in question, especially in this game, players go to forums to let it out. And since players aren't as likely to tell their successful easy runs online, it can easily paint a picture of it's a widespread problem if the player base is large enough. Because typically only a minority of players will use a forum or other such social feature.

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man, i even said a few of these things
why do they respond to you, and not me?
smh

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Originally Posted by Tactical

man, i even said a few of these things
why do they respond to you, and not me?
smh

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It was obviously a Tactical choice of theirs.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Generally speaking, people often use themselves as the benchmark for their own standards in a simple bid to preserve their ego.

If someone isn't very good, more often than not they will have standards matching their own skill-level, and have difficulty seeing this problem as they are looking from the inside out.

My own stint on EU was nightmare inducing; Wipes to the final boss of Heroes Gauntlet were almost a daily occurrence, typically instigated by someone with the French language tag on ._.

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I'd say it's a pretty bad take to basically label those of us in this thread who don't see these issues as they play as 'Oh the only reason you don't see it is because you're just as bad as them so obviously your standards are even much lower than that.. so yeah from that perspective obviously nothing would seem to be wrong'.

Granted, you obviously didn't literally say that, but it is pretty much what you mean to imply. I can respect that you and others have different experiences, especially on the NA datacenters from how it would seem, but perhaps also respect that the opposite can also be true?

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

You could play a single player game.

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Thank you for proving the OP's message.

Look, if you want to have a better community, don't dogpile on a person's concerns with mean-spirited comments to make them feel unwelcome. The OP has legitimate concerns of how the game performs structurally. Allow space for solutions. There's TONS of methods by which the game developers could reconsider how leveling and training characters could be reinvented in a logical and sensible manner.

Especially rotations. Especially skill acquisition.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

OH it's exaggerated. I have very little problems in DF and I play on multiple data centers with various alts.

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I suppose this depends on how you look at things.. In a simple binary metric of suceed or fail to complete the duty then true there's very little problems.
But if you look at it in a measure of time (arguably the most valuable commodity to most players) or something, the differences do become much more apparent. Even in content so simple and over powered such as LOTA (alliance roulette) you can easily notice it. A decent group will kill behemoth before his second ecliptic meteor even goes out, and will then repeat that on the last boss with ancient flares. Where in comparison a not so decent group can still see behemoth doing 3 ecliptic meteors and find the last boss is still at 25-30% when the second ancient flare starts casting..

So while a run may still be completed It's pretty easy to see how large the disparity between players can really be. and while I agree that it can be highly over exagerated the opposite is also true in that it often just gets brushed under the carpet under the guise of a binary did you win? Yes / No. then "good job" Which in itself often leads to the problems that people often raise, because that creates a perception that hey I beat this on normal so I'm good enough for extreme, Join a PF only to find themselves overwhelmed and boom. Another party finder horror story complaining about being kicked from the group by some toxic elitists / tryhard / insert buzz term here. because you're wasting 7 other peoples time.

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Originally Posted by linayar

You cannot make the logical conclusion of why Scholar is unique in being able to level a healer without being a healer in group content, and yet you somehow get...

"the overall truth that this game's community in particular fosters a very coddling and toxic environment where people are willfully defending the sort of players who will actively drag the enjoyment, time, and effort of others down because they are selfish and do not understand their own responsibility in a team-based environment. "

...out of me saying I don't do group content as a healer because I am not good at it.

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I think your own reading comprehension needs some work, because I clearly stated in the quote,

"And really, my point was less their side thing regarding not being able to manage a basic fundamental task of healing, but"

It was not about you not being able to nor seeming to want to learn how to manage healing better on a controller. My side mention about you and healing was not even remotely part of the further discussion in that post. My main point had nothing to do with you or your SCH stuff. I was reiterating the rest of my initial post in this thread, unrelated to you and your posts.

You are really not that important to me lol.

Also, I did not read beyond that initial page, so no - if there were context clues to tie SMN and SCH together beyond just ~assumption and logic~, I missed them. I don't play SMN and leveled SCH on an alt from 30. Not everyone is going to insta-click that you meant you used the DPS cheat to level SCH in comparison to the other healers, especially when no mention of SMN came about until someone else pointed it out and reminded me.