Please do not lock Jobs to the Weapon Class that unlocks them.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrAM

And why not allow LNC/WHM, or any other such combination? While I admit that the layout Sephr linked is indeed interesting, it's more of a promotion system then a job system, and honestly it would pull directly from any number of little F2P games out there. The 'split class promotion' concept is fairly limiting and has next to nothing in common with any job system from the FF series.

The more flexibility, the better. A true job system needs to allow the freedom to excel at something, balance multiple things, or yes, just suck at most everything. Not everything goes together well, but the fun is in the experimentation.

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I'm totally for flexibility, but don't we already have the tools to do that? Can't you already equip the tools to do that?

We know that each job is going to be a set of skills in some form that you unlock via quests. In the case of white mage I imagine that would be higher tiers of Cure, Regen etc. Do you want that to be accessible to every job? How would that work? What kind of penalty would a Lancer face for advancing their currently non-existent healing skills? (because as we know, a specialisation placed on Lancer would mean they'd become focussed on White mage, not that they'd become LNC/WHM)

In addition to that, doesn't that just kill the whole 'specialisation' and also the return to classic final fantasy jobs that they're shooting for?

The alternative I can see (correct me if there's another) would be that EVERY class gets their own skills for EVERY job, which would be totally unrealistic.

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Originally Posted by Sephr

I'm totally for flexibility, but don't we already have the tools to do that? Can't you already equip the tools to do that?

We know that each job is going to be a set of skills in some form that you unlock via quests. In the case of white mage I imagine that would be higher tiers of Cure, Regen etc. Do you want that to be accessible to every job? How would that work? What kind of penalty would a Lancer face for advancing their currently non-existent healing skills? (because as we know, a specialisation placed on Lancer would mean they'd become focussed on White mage, not that they'd become LNC/WHM)

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Divine Lancer
Class: Lancer
Weapon: Lance
Job: White Mage
Job Trait: +25% Healing Potency (Tier 1)
Job Ability: Benediction

This is how it could look. Again, this character would probably suck, but I wouldn't go so far as to say such a character should be impossible to make.

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Originally Posted by Sorel

Divine Lancer
Class: Lancer
Weapon: Lance
Job: White Mage
Job Trait: +25% Healing Potency (Tier 1)
Job Ability: Benediction

This is how it could look. Again, this character would probably suck, but I wouldn't go so far as to say such a character should be impossible to make.

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We can already do something pretty similar by equipping One with Nature trait, Fastcast trait, Cure III, Protect II, Shell II, Stoneskin II, Shock Spikes II, Poisona, Blindna, Dia, etc ...) on a Lancer.

So .. if I use FFXI as an example since some of you like it very much, you want a system that allows LNC75/WHM75 (the current cross-class skills could be compared to the level 1-37 abilities, and the job might provide the level 38-75 abilities) with access to 2hour abilities and weapons?

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Originally Posted by Sorel

Divine Lancer
Class: Lancer
Weapon: Lance
Job: White Mage
Job Trait: +25% Healing Potency (Tier 1)
Job Ability: Benediction

This is how it could look. Again, this character would probably suck, but I wouldn't go so far as to say such a character should be impossible to make.

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Great. So why bother? Why campaign for them to spend time working on a system where 90% of the combinations suck when they could just focus on making the jobs really great but only fit certain classes?

Do you seriously just want the jobs to be passive buffs? Is the pursuit of FREEDOM so important and necessary that the jobs themselves need to be boring as hell?

EDIT: Again I should remind you, this adds no specialisation to Lancer whatsoever. They can't specialise as a healer, in fact it servers to do the OPPOSITE, which is make them a watered down mix of classes. It doesn't make sense in the context we're given.

Actually, allowing a Lancer to be a White Mage will probably prevent the player from using any lancer abilities.
The blueprint did say that certain jobs will prevent equipping of certain cross-class skills. Most Lancer skills will likely be in this list for WHM.

So, who wants to play a WHM wielding a barely-effective spear and possessing a reduced MP pool? Because THAT is what the OP is asking for. It's probably not what he wants, but it's what he's asking for.

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Originally Posted by Lerris

Actually, allowing a Lancer to be a White Mage will probably prevent the player from using any lancer abilities.
The blueprint did say that certain jobs will prevent equipping of certain cross-class skills. Most Lancer skills will likely be in this list for WHM.

So, who wants to play a WHM wielding a barely-effective spear and possessing a reduced MP pool? Because THAT is what the OP is asking for. It's probably not what he wants, but it's what he's asking for.

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Its the freedom he wants, not so much how effective they will be.

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Originally Posted by Nuru

Its the freedom he wants, not so much how effective they will be.

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But what I'm asking is, why do you want freedom for the sake of freedom? Hows about we allow our characters to move vertically as well as horizontally? Nevermind that the game's design doesn't really need it, nor would it achieve anything, but freedom is freedom right?

This system they've invented seems to be made for no reason other than to try and break boundaries that reasonably don't need to be broken, and will serve no actual purpose. It certainly won't fit with the idea of specialisation and 'old school final fantasy' idealism that people have ASKED FOR in player polls and on the forums.

Because LNC/WHM can do a healing breath for only 7MP...oh wait, different game, my bad ;P

Okay, admittedly the Devs 'do' refer to the jobs as specializations, which would imply only furthering effective 'combinations' (or whatever they end up resembling). However, I think many of us are hoping, and in fact trying in this very thread to fight against, such a pure usage of the system. I, for one, don't care much for the concept because it completely voids any chance of 'any' sort of hybrid job, such as the true Red Mages from the FF's of old (NOT the thing they turned them into in FFXI).

Now, the promotion/specialization type of chart that Sephr presented 'could' allow for certain classes, such as the Mystic Knight (a personal favorite from FFV), but only if the Devs put extreme time and effort into creating a massive amount of Jobs across all the Classes.

So which would be better, for us and for the Devs? Creating a large amount of specific Jobs? Or creating fewer jobs that could be used across all Classes?

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Originally Posted by Sephr

Do you seriously just want the jobs to be passive buffs? Is the pursuit of FREEDOM so important and necessary that the jobs themselves need to be boring as hell?

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No. Boring is not what I want. But boring is maybe what we'll get.

If we go by the letter of Akihiko Matsui's post, Jobs are a method of helping define roles in a party. Their abilities are not learned by leveling, but by questing. I don't see a single quest giving more than one or two abilities and/or traits. So if by unlocking a Job, you gain ... say a Job defining ability (like Benediction), and a useful trait in parties (+25% Healing), and then during the followup quests, you gain 1 trait, and 1 ability per completed quest ... a single Job is not realistically going to have more than 10 or 12 traits and abilities total (5 or 6 quests). Compare that to the 25 total abilities available to a single Class.

So yeah. Jobs may turn out to be more boring than Armory Classes. That possibility cannot be denied.