Animation Lock: Why don't you like it?

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

So, you are saying Minecraft is an non-aesthetic game?

http://wallpaperswide.com/download/m...r-1280x768.jpg

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Pixel art looks awesome when you zoom out. But zoom in and it usually looks like ass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lct1O6euqg0

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

Pixel art looks awesome when you zoom out. But zoom in and it usually looks like ass.

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Like an impressionist painting by Monet?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_JQJ93Ctpr5...aude_Monet.jpg

Will you argue there is no aesthetic value in his work either?

http://shop.nga.gov/mas_assets/produ...000040621b.jpg

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Will you argue there is no aesthetic value in his work either?

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It's not the same. Show me how gameplay is involved in a painting. I'm not playing a piece of art that hangs on the wall. In your example, the aesthetic qualities are similar yes but in a piece of art that hangs on a wall the aesthetic qualities are what makes up the total value of the work.

So are you saying that gameplay holds no value?

Gameplay is very important,

But Final Fantasy is a series built on Aesthetics. It's what draws players into the franchise and keeps them coming back.

Ideally they should be of equal weight, but I think when push comes to shove, aesthetics trump gameplay in core FF game design at SE.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Gameplay is very important,

But Final Fantasy is a series built on Aesthetics. It's what draws players into the franchise and keeps them coming back.

Ideally they should be of equal weight, but I think when push comes to shove, aesthetics trump gameplay in FF game design at SE.

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They look great sure, but if the gameplay wasn't there the series wouldn't have lasted as long as it has. A game can look fantastic, but if the gameplay sucks, the game sucks.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

They look great sure, but if the gameplay wasn't there the series wouldn't have lasted as long as it has. A game can look fantastic, but if the gameplay sucks, the game sucks.

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It's not a zero-sum game.

But at the end of the day, when faced with a difficult decision (esp in RPGs), the gameplay should be altered to fit the aesthetic, not the other way around.

Obviously this doesn't apply to other genres like puzzle games, arcade style shooters, action games, etc..

I have to say, that I agree with Zantetsuken on this one. In a Final Fantasy game, the object is to draw the player into the world of the game and the many things in it. That's ow Final Fantasy games have worked for a long while. When playing, you're not really thinking about the buttons you're pushing to make your character move. You're usually thinking "HOLY CRAP! Did you see that cool summon?" and "Wow, this city is beautiful". The storyline is also an extremely important factor. I think gameplay comes in at a third on the importance chart.

If you guys are correct, why do you think the launch of this game went so badly? 1.0 looked fantastic by almost all accounts. If aesthetics are everything, what was the problem?

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

If you guys are correct, why do you think the launch of this game went so badly? 1.0 looked fantastic by almost all accounts.

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Oh, a number of reasons. Bad gameplay, bad questing system, not really a lot of content, the levelling system was awful as well... Still doesn't change the fact that aesthetics are extremely important in a Final Fantasy game. It only proves a game can't run solely on looks. However, a Final Fantasy game with good gameplay that's extremely ugly will also do just as badly.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Gameplay is very important,

But Final Fantasy is a series built on Aesthetics. It's what draws players into the franchise and keeps them coming back.

Ideally they should be of equal weight, but I think when push comes to shove, aesthetics trump gameplay in core FF game design at SE.

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Have to disagree the gameplay has always been one of the strong points for FF more than the aesthetics. Aesthetics did not become a huge issue till FF 8-9 cause back then before the whole world started playing FF 7 people loved the games for story and gameplay.

I'm playing FFXIII and it has great aesthetics. Gameplay is really lacking, I feel like I'm watching a movie rather than playing a game. I do like FFXIII, but not for being a game.

gameplay > aesthetics

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Originally Posted by SkyeWindbinder

Oh, a number of reasons. Bad gameplay, bad questing system, not really a lot of content, the levelling system was awful as well... Still doesn't change the fact that aesthetics are extremely important in a Final Fantasy game. It only proves a game can't run solely on looks. However, a Final Fantasy game with good gameplay that's extremely ugly will also do just as badly.

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That's right, people left in droves because the aesthetics alone were not enough to keep them playing. therefore, gamepley > aesthetics.

Both are important, and we all want both ! :o

And I'm sure they are trying to do their best so we can have both :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

That's right, people left in droves because the aesthetics alone were not enough to keep them playing. therefore, gamepley > aesthetics.

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As I said before, a game can't run on looks alone. But Final Fantasy games, these days, can't run on only gameplay either. I repeat: If a Final Fantasy game is released that is visually unappealing, chances are it, too, will fail. For example...

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Originally Posted by Pseudopsia

I'm playing FFXIII and it has great aesthetics. Gameplay is really lacking, I feel like I'm watching a movie rather than playing a game. I do like FFXIII, but not for being a game.

gameplay > aesthetics

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^^This. I, too, liked FFXIII. But, gameplay-wise, it was sorely lacking. Still, the story and beauty of the world had me hooked. Aesthetics ang gameplay = both important. But looks mean a lot.

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Originally Posted by Pseudopsia

I'm playing FFXIII and it has great aesthetics. Gameplay is really lacking, I feel like I'm watching a movie rather than playing a game. I do like FFXIII, but not for being a game.

gameplay > aesthetics

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I have to say FF 13 is the only battle system that makes you do more than spam the attack button cause in every other FF Fire water attack don't mean much they all produce the same numbers and everything ends up being the same at some point. At least in 13 it has some type of complexity that if you dive deep into the battle system you feel really good how fast you can destroy your opponents.

There is like no depth to any of the Ff games 10 and under cause the attack command rules all, unless that char is lacking in the attack stat even then exploiting weakness with magic in the oldergames is a waste of time when attacks end up doing the same dmg :(

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

If you guys are correct, why do you think the launch of this game went so badly? 1.0 looked fantastic by almost all accounts. If aesthetics are everything, what was the problem?

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Because graphics are a part of aesthetics, rather than being equally inclusive.

Art styling, blending, impressions given, synchronicity of visual and actant features, perception of theme, and even the nil-defined 'realism' or self-contained 'realism' (sticking to and fleshing out the fantastic world as if it were a reasonable alteration) are all parts of aesthetics. A certain few parts of gameplay even fall into aesthetics and vice-versa.

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Originally Posted by Firon

I have to say FF 13 is the only battle system that makes you do more than spam the attack button cause in every other FF Fire water attack don't mean much they all produce the same numbers and everything ends up being the same at some point. At least in 13 it has some type of complexity that if you dive deep into the battle system you feel really good how fast you can destroy your opponents.

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You know, I was about to mention that, but you beat me to it. lol It did have some complexity to it's levelling and battle system. You could even completely skip some perks in favor of others. That's one thing I liked abou FFXIII's levelling-up system. And the summons were also nice. Wish they weren't all transformers, though.

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Originally Posted by SkyeWindbinder

As I said before, a game can't run on looks alone. But Final Fantasy games, these days, can't run on only gameplay either. I repeat: If a Final Fantasy game is released that is visually unappealing, chances are it, too, will fail. For example...



^^This. I, too, liked FFXIII. But, gameplay-wise, it was sorely lacking. Still, the story and beauty of the world had me hooked.

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While it may not get as many people on board at first, any game with fantastic gameplay will keep players playing. If a game doesn't look the greatest but has fantastic gameplay word would spread and a large fanbase would eventually be created. Again, just look at minecraft. Although, for obvious reasons that model is not what SE wants. I think minecraft is just an extreme example that proves my point. ARR looks fantastic as well, so I don't think there's much to worry about in that regard. We're just talking about one particular mechanic that improves gameplay, and to my point, I'll take that over a minor hindrance to aesthetics any day of the week.

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Originally Posted by Pseudopsia

I'm playing FFXIII and it has great aesthetics. Gameplay is really lacking, I feel like I'm watching a movie rather than playing a game. I do like FFXIII, but not for being a game.

gameplay > aesthetics

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And what gameplay improvements do you get from the previous games? In either case you're playing an active turn-based game; you input commands within time-constraints and they go off on measure. The strategy is the same. You either prioritize the elimination of a dangerous target or the defensive procedure(s) in relation to its upcoming significant attack. Between those times you apply buffs and debuffs and spam your best spells. Previous games had full control of party which adds a small degree more depth through precision. FFXIII instead had depth through enemy-party timing and party simultaneity.

If your issue is with everything but the combat system, then I understand, but if it's with the combat system specifically then it sounds like you're asking to trade out a movie for a slideshow (all for the additional option of a 'wait' battle setting).

Honestly, my favorite combat was in VIII, but I can't really say that combat system was any better than the rest.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

While it may not get as many people on board at first, any game with fantastic gameplay will keep players playing. If a game doesn't look the greatest but has fantastic gameplay word would spread and a large fanbase would eventually be created. Again, just look at minecraft. Although, for obvious reasons that model is not what SE wants. I think minecraft is just an extreme example that proves my point. ARR looks fantastic as well, so I don't think there's much to worry about in that regard. We're just talking about one particular mechanic that improves gameplay, and to my point, I'll take that over a minor hindrance to aesthetics any day of the week.

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People who are playing games like minecraft are looking for something different than what people who are playing games like Final Fantasy are looking for. People play minecraft because they want to play with blocks. You can build things, and go exploring for more things so you can build more things. It's the game equivalent of legos.

Now, Final Fantasy, for instance, is different. The first things that people who are fans of this series critique are "How pretty does it look" and "What's the story". The gameplay comes in third. Beauty and storytelling are what FF fans are looking for. And if it's good in that regard, excellent, that draws them in and gets them to play the game. Gameplay mechanics are judged later. Come to think of it, there also wasn't much story to the early build of FFXIV 1.0 either, and what story there was you had to level up to get to it, which was hard to do thanks to the lackluster levequest system... One of the big complaints about FFXIV was that there were too many roadblocks in the way or progressing lore-wise.

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Originally Posted by SkyeWindbinder

People who are playing games like minecraft are looking for something different than what people who are playing games like Final Fantasy are looking for. People play minecraft because they want to play with blocks. You can build things, and go exploring for more things so you can build more things. It's the game equivalent of legos.

Now, Final Fantasy, for instance, is different. The first things that people who are fans of this series critique are "How pretty does it look" and "What's the story". The gameplay comes in third. Beauty and storytelling are what FF fans are looking for. And if it's good in that regard, excellent, that draws them in and gets them to play the game. Gameplay mechanics are judged later. Come to think of it, there also wasn't much story to the early build of FFXIV 1.0 either, and what story there was you had to level up to get to it, which was hard to do thanks to the lackluster levequest system... One of the big complaints about FFXIV was that there were too many roadblocks in the way or progressing lore-wise.

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Everyone plays games for different reasons tho, Like me I play RPG's for this reason in this order. Combat > Story > Graphics. I love number crunching in rpg's and trying to get the most out of it so in that regard sometimes I don't even care if a story is bad in game cause when i grew up games did not really have stories anyway. It's a reason pokemon is my fav RPG cause no game can macth skill and strat of the game, you have so many options in the game and you never know what someone will come at you with.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

And what gameplay improvements do you get from the previous games?

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I probably like the previous games better because they game me more reason to use strategy. FFXIII SE took away a lot of the reason to use strategy. You can micro manage your abilities if you want to, why do that when it's done well with the Paradigm system and the battles are easy?

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Originally Posted by Pseudopsia

I probably like the previous games better because they game me more reason to use strategy. FFXIII SE took away a lot of the reason to use strategy. You can micro manage your abilities if you want to, why do that when it's done well with the Paradigm system and the battles are easy?

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It's a lot of thing you can do in 13's battle system. Just wait till you fight an giant turtle you will realize how wrong you were playing the game.

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Originally Posted by Firon

It's a lot of thing you can do in 13's battle system. Just wait till you fight an giant turtle you will realize how wrong you were playing the game.

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I haven't seen any giant turtles yet. I'm on chapter 6, so far it feels like a long movie. So pretty much I have to wait till the end of the game to get into good game play?

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But Final Fantasy is a series built on Aesthetics. It's what draws players into the franchise and keeps them coming back.

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I'm sorry but this is a load of crap. Final Fantasy is a series based on good storylines- Not aesthetics. And regardless of what you think the series is "based on", there is no good reason to compromise gameplay for the sake of asthetics. I'm playing the game because it's a fun game, not just because it's pretty to look at.

Did anyone like Final Fantasy 1/2/3 because of good graphics? No. The graphics were pretty lame even for the NES days. It wasn't until the more recent games that good graphics even came into the picture. To argue that the series as a whole was based on that as a principle is ridiculous.

Seriously, you people arguing aesthetics. Do you really play FF games just because they have good graphics?

FFXIII is the first FF game I was disappointed. They need to make a movie like that because I didn't enjoy the battle system.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Everyone plays games for different reasons tho, Like me I play RPG's for this reason in this order. Combat > Story > Graphics. I love number crunching in rpg's and trying to get the most out of it so in that regard sometimes I don't even care if a story is bad in game cause when i grew up games did not really have stories anyway. It's a reason pokemon is my fav RPG cause no game can macth skill and strat of the game, you have so many options in the game and you never know what someone will come at you with.

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I completely agree with you in order of importance, but this doesn't mean all 3 can't be improved as much as they possibly can.

If I don't like the mechanics of a game, then I have a hard time getting into the game. Beautiful graphics and an awesome storyline can only distract from so much.

If the storyline makes no sense whatsoever it also distracts me from fully enjoying a game. On the other hand if storyline is really successful at pulling me in I can overlook other flaws.

If a game completely looks like crap it will also distract me from enjoying myself as much, but it's not anywheres near a big deal for me as the above two issues.

If you can get an A+ in all 3 fields... Then why not? It's not like you have to only focus in one or the other. I think some of the graphical issues people have with ARR stem from a lack of development time. They're trying to do the best they can but at the same time they can't develop this game indefinitely. I personally think they did a damn good job in the amount of time they did it in. I also knew the graphics were going to take a slight dip because they wanted to shift things up to allow players with lower end systems to have access to the game. Again even with that, I'm still impressed with what they've done so far.

As far as animations and transitions go. I don't think they will have the game exactly where they want it on release, but it's not like they can't continually upgrade and improve after the game's release. Didn't they say they also wanted to upgrade their graphics to a newer version of DirectX in the future so that the game will look even better?

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I'm sorry but this is a load of crap. Final Fantasy is a series based on good storylines- Not aesthetics. And regardless of what you think the series is "based on", there is no good reason to compromise gameplay for the sake of asthetics. I'm playing the game because it's a fun game, not just because it's pretty to look at.

Did anyone like Final Fantasy 1/2/3 because of good graphics? No. The graphics were pretty lame even for the NES days. It wasn't until the more recent games that good graphics even came into the picture. To argue that the series as a whole was based on that as a principle is ridiculous.

Seriously, you people arguing aesthetics. Do you really play FF games just because they have good graphics?

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But, as was said before, a good storyline does add to the aesthetics of a Final Fantasy game. And, whether you'd like to believe it or not, or regardless of why "you" play Final Fantasy games, the series puts a huge emphasis on looks and story, you know, the aesthetics of the world. Yes, people have different reasons for playing games, but the Final Fantasy games are primarily build for people who want to be drawn into a detailed world with a deep and meaningful storyline.

Yes, gameplay plays a very important role in how a game does. But really, do you think the majority of people who are anticipating a new Final Fantasy game are saying "Geez, I hope I don't have to use so-and-so buttons to fight, or "I hope I can use so-and-so buttons to summon my monsters"? LOL Come on, let's get real here. Fans hear somehting about the new Final Fantasy, here's th details they're asking for...

"How does it look? Pics, please!"
"What's the story?"
"What summons will be available?"
"Can we see city designs?"
"Can we see character designs?"

You know, questions that revolve around the aesthetics of the game.

I actually liked it for "realism" which 1.0 had loads of...

But let's be honest gameplay comes first.

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Originally Posted by Colino

I actually liked it for "realism" which 1.0 had loads of...

But let's be honest gameplay comes first.

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But having failed previously SE needs to release a 'more then usual' polished mmorpg. SE shouldn't let or at least let obvious there was compromise in the product - "We designed gameplay first, thats why our aesthetics (or other X feature) look like shit now". Specially there should be no literal compromise between 1.0 and 2.0, I say literal because there are many subjective things like "I liked not being able to jump", but literals like "there was more detail in 1.0's animations". With animation blending being added later the animation quality might not be a thing anymore - it was just an example.

While gameplay should be developed first (to ensure fun) our release product shouldn't have this statement "gameplay first", the product should say "quality comes first". Gameplay is important, but so very important is aesthetics. If you give me a 10 score in gameplay and then a 10 in aesthetics I give you a 100, you give me a 5 in aesthetics I give you a 50 - HUGE difference.

I wont defend 1.0 animation lock, because I disagree with true locks (you cant convince me I "cant" modify my spells like stopping a multi-hit combo midway (or being stunned to spot), fail sense of realism lol) but I think influence action and reactive limitations is ok (basically, gtfo FFXIV ani-locks).

Maybe I'll start another thread like Shurrikhan suggested (reactive weighted animation system, which can handle limiting actions intelligently - pure locking isn't an intelligent solution). Though I dont think many people are looking for that much action oriented gameplay - you've got the ATB crowd and then lightning combo smashers.. right now its in the middle(ish).That and I bet a lot of response will be resource polices magically knowing the resource availability for Yoshida :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Pseudopsia

I haven't seen any giant turtles yet. I'm on chapter 6, so far it feels like a long movie. So pretty much I have to wait till the end of the game to get into good game play?

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Combat-wise the game doesn't flesh itself out until chapter 10, so that's relatively correct... Until then it's about on par with your one mage and everyone else hit Attack a lot. Should be fun by Chapter 7 though if you've learned the timing tricks and the bits and pieces of indirect control. By Chapter 7 auto-battle, while still decent, should be noticeably inferior to good active control. By Chapter 9 you'll probably want to switch Abilities to your default instead of Auto-Battle, as long you don't mind pressing more buttons. You start theory-crafting (if you're into that) around Chapter 11.

Now to continue this more relevantly to the thread's recent subject of the three core RPG components, let's go ahead and use FF13 as an example.

Awesome premise that's probably understood only by one in 20 players. That's a problem, even if possibly a worthy sacrifice. Story itself--lackluster, but feels microcosmic, befitting the design of the story. However, there are few high points for those who wish to occasionally de-immerse from (stop drowning in) the general sad or vague-emotion-filled feel of the thing, which lends itself to tedium.

Transformer eidolans fit the premise but lose any positives from that to ridiculousness. Settings were amazing. Level design was fluid, generally impressive, but occasionally lacking in ways that can really be pointed at. Animations were good, but further interlinking of combat movements and deeper gameplay mechanics would have been appreciated. Cinematic feel of battle was impressive during times in which the area or story themes were being played instead.

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Originally Posted by SkyeWindbinder

LOL Come on, let's get real here. Fans hear something about the new Final Fantasy, here's the details they're asking for...

"How does it look? Pics, please!"
"What's the story?"
"What summons will be available?"
"Can we see city designs?"
"Can we see character designs?"

You know, questions that revolve around the aesthetics of the game.

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A lot of that has to do with the simple fact that you can't put a full storyboard on a platter to feed to the fans. For many, that's precisely because it's the meat of the meal meant to be enjoyed later.

Note that you still had "What's the story?" on that list. While I agree that the as a concept is hugely intertwined with the aesthetics of the game (just as camera work or scene display is with the storytelling), it is also... well... story. And as long as the rest are good (good is enough), that'll be the hook that gets me.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instanc...x/23532382.jpg

～（へ＿へ）～

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Originally Posted by Shougun

(reactive weighted animation system, which can handle limiting actions intelligently - pure locking isn't an intelligent solution). Though I dont think many people are looking for that much action oriented gameplay - you've got the ATB crowd and then lightning combo smashers.. right now its in the middle(ish).That and I bet a lot of response will be resource polices magically knowing the resource availability for Yoshida :rolleyes:

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A weighted animation system really should be versatile enough by itself to appease either crowd. It's just a matter of active timing vs. preparatory triggers, both of which are essentially realistic as well. (Just got myself bruised pretty badly in my sword matches last night until I started thinking things through in sequences of triggers instead; especially in nighttime combat there isn't enough time for sense-by-sense reaction. For reasons like that, I don't see why people would say that an ATB-style or prepared-string-of-actions use of such a system is unrealistic.)

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

A lot of that has to do with the simple fact that you can't put a full storyboard on a platter to feed to the fans. For many, that's precisely because it's the meat of the meal meant to be enjoyed later.

Note that you still had "What's the story?" on that list. While I agree that the as a concept is hugely intertwined with the aesthetics of the game (just as camera work or scene display is with the storytelling), it is also... well... story. And as long as the rest are good (good is enough), that'll be the hook that gets me.

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I don't know. I think it has more to do with the fast that what pleases Final Fantasy fans most are the story and graphics aspects of the game. I mean, that's what people who create FF games focus on tweaking the most. Because those are the aspects of the game that it's usually built around and for. A huge emphasis is put on gameplay and story. That's what fans of the series clamor for. Not how the game controls. As long as it's at least controllable, awesome. Final Fantasy is graded on mostly aesthetics.

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Originally Posted by SkyeWindbinder

I don't know. I think it has more to do with the fast that what pleases Final Fantasy fans most are the story and graphics aspects of the game. I mean, that's what people who create FF games focus on tweaking the most. Because those are the aspects of the game that it's usually built around and for. A huge emphasis is put on gameplay and story. That's what fans of the series clamor for. Not how the game controls. As long as it's at least controllable, awesome. Final Fantasy is graded on mostly aesthetics.

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I agree with that. I was simply saying that story is as high an expectation, even if not as ostensible a part of the hype for a not yet released game, as aesthetics.

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I don't know. I think it has more to do with the fast that what pleases Final Fantasy fans most are the story and graphics aspects of the game.

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So what you're basically saying is final fantasy gamers are the worst kind of gamers- They don't care how the game plays as long as the story is good and the graphics are pretty?

Final Fantasy fans are pleased by games that play awful but look great? Didn't FFXIV fall into this category? Look how well that went...

Even 1.0 was unquestionably good looking for the most part and at least the premise of the story was good. But FF fans didn't go for it. Wonder why... Oh, right, that's because at launch the game played like a$$ and was plagued with poorly designed/implemented mechanics, not the least of which was the animation lock, but many others as well.

Now they're fixing all those problems, and one barely noticeable graphical compromise made for the sake of gameplay has FF fans up in arms about how aesthetics are everything and this ruins the aesthetics.

If graphics and story are the only thing that matters, go play one of the single player FFs. A multiplayer game demands better gameplay.

Am I the only one who played FFXI because it was fun?

It was noted earlier that aesthetics and gameplay are not mutually exclusive, this is most certainly true.

However: 'Realism' (read: the Ease of suspension of disbelief within a game's established framework) and 'Hyper-Convenience' (read: a player's ability to oversimplify tasks or to accomplish difficult/impossible goals with ease) are very much at odds with each-other.

Why does nobody complain about Mario being able to grow a tail and fly? It's because the aesthetic of Mario games is not based on 'Realism'. Mario's, gameplay is it's core mechanic -- all aesthetic decisions are made to accommodate it. We expect Mario to be unreal, so that we can enjoy the mechanics of it. If Mario was given human proportions and photo-realistic textures, that game would lie deep in the uncanny valley and in the waste-bin of failed games.

An RPG or MMO (especially Final Fantasy) is on the other end of the spectrum. Aesthetics are a primary engagement tool, and that aesthetic is based on 'Realism' (*see definition above).

We expect a Final Fantasy reality to be largely restrained by the same rules that we follow in real life. In Eorzea, we expect life to mimic ours roughly 90%, with the remaining 10% being fantastic and unreal.

The unreal 10% is given credibility and bridged to the realistic 90% via magic/magick/crystals/gods/sci-fi tech/etc. This is what makes a fantasy world engaging, it goes to great lengths to keep everything as relatable as possible, spices it up with the fantastic, and gives the player a plausible bridge between the two.

So it is very important to make decisions based on what your game's intended core engagement. Aesthetics based on 'Realism' will ultimately conflict with Gameplay that is based on 'Hyper-convenience'. We can't have both at 100%, or we'd all be playing gods.

In a Final Fantasy game, the 'Realism'(*again, see definition above) always comes first.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

So what you're basically saying is final fantasy gamers are the worst kind of gamers- They don't care how the game plays as long as the story is good and the graphics are pretty?

Final Fantasy fans are pleased by games that play awful but look great? Didn't FFXIV fall into this category? Look how well that went...

Even 1.0 was unquestionably good looking and at least the premise of the story was good. But FF fans didn't go for it. Wonder why... Oh, right, that's because at launch the game played like a$$ and was plagued with poorly designed/implemented mechanics, not the least of which was the animation lock, but many others as well.

Now they're fixing all those problems, and one barely noticeable graphical compromise made for the sake of gameplay has FF fans up in arms about how aesthetics are everything and this ruins the aesthetics.

If graphics and story are the only thing that matters, go play one of the single player FFs. A multiplayer game demands better gameplay.

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If you think that I'm trying to say that Final Fantasy gamers are "the worst kind of gamers", and that gameplay absolutely does not matter in a Final Fantasy game, then you really need to learn to pay attention. Because in none of my posts did I say that gameplay does not matter. And if you wish to say I did, then I challenge you to find the post in which I did so. Go ahead, take your time. I can wait.

My point is that gameplay, while important, is third on the list after aesthetics and story in Final Fantasy games. Because those are the main things that draw FF gamers back to play the newest FF games. That's why they're built mostly around these two aspects, putting a huge amount of emphasis on them. What draws FF gamers into an FF game is not "Oh! Lookee here! I push X button, and it makes Y do that! Sold!" The way it controls is not the major selling point of FF games. It's the story and lore. And that's how it is for any story-based Final Fantasy game, multiplayer or otherwise. I'm talking about the major releases with the roman numerals after them, not games like Dissidia. LOL Gimme a break.

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It was noted earlier that aesthetics and gameplay are not mutually exclusive, this is most certainly true.

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No, they're not mutually exclusive, but having one most definitely does not mean having the other.

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An RPG or MMO (especially Final Fantasy) is on the other end of the spectrum. Aesthetics are a primary engagement tool, and that aesthetic is based on 'Realism' (*see definition above).

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err, actually, no, it's not on the other end of the spectrum. Final FANTASY is a FANTASY game. Fantasy meaning stuff that's not real. Magic isn't real. A lot of the things many of the characters do in many of the games is not physically realistic. I think you may be confusing 'realistic" with "natural"- something that looks like it belongs and doesn't feel out of place.

When animation blending is implemented, you will most likely not notice the lack of animation lock. Animations will be blended, such that there isn't a sudden instant change in character's positions when they initiate different actions. Blending creates a smooth transition automatically, without needing special transition animations that lock your character in place (which is what 1.0 had).

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In a Final Fantasy game, the 'Realism'(*again, see definition above) always comes first.

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False. Many final fantasy games have good gameplay. Good aesthetics come with that gameplay, but that doesn't mean the aesthetics came first.

The TL;DR if your post is: in Fnal fantasy, graphics are everything and gameplay is not important. Even if I agreed, which I don't, this isn't a standard final fantasy game. It's an MMORPG, and gameplay is inherently more important to an MMORPG than a singleplayer one. In a single player RPG, the gameplay is sometimes more shallow because it is only a vehicle to drive the story (and by extension, the aesthetics). However, in an MMORPG, the main story is just the beginning.

Without strong gameplay mechanics, this game will fall flat on its face just like the first one, no matter how pretty the grpahics are or how good the story is.

Soo, once again- In this thread: Gameplay doesn't matter as long as it is pleasing to the eye and the story is good. Everything else is secondary! Read that again. Are you sure that really sounds like a good idea?