Chaotic is midcore, in case you were wondering

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Originally Posted by Arrius

Seems it's midcore content for JP players, as their clear rates are significant higher than NA ones.
So this more of a NA/EU problem, really : Parsing culture, uptime obsession, greedy strats over safe ones and prog lying comes to mind.

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I mean, when you spend more time actually clearing the fight versus crying on the forums like the NA/EU base does, yeah it's no surprise they have 3x the clear rates either. So we can continue to parse around it like several people in this thread want to but it is in fact a player issue.

Japanese players are on average better than NA players, yeah. I think the possibility of travel between these server regions would end up causing problems because of this.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

I mean, when you spend more time actually clearing the fight versus crying on the forums like the NA/EU base does, yeah it's no surprise they have 3x the clear rates either. So we can continue to parse around it like several people in this thread want to but it is in fact a player issue.

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Collectivism vs Individualism as its finest. But even then, taking responsibility on the latter is not seen seriously. Like owning up the mistakes and getting better.

Instead, being hostile ingame and complaining about it in the forum is the regular response.

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

The "midcore" or whatever you want to call it is a bit more than that. The reason why midcore encompasses such a huge group of players of varying skill levels / commitment is exactly because the gap between Casual to Extremes is so large and there isn't much content to bridge the gap.

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Yes, but it's important that we look at this gap and what exactly makes it exist. And the answer is, that it's because of a fundamentally different way to approach a mechanic. When going through this game, one can be totally reactive, see a telegraph on the floor => don't stand in telegraph => mechanic is dodged. Some fights are a bit more difficult when they have overlapping mechanics, i.e. you have to check 2 mechanics at the same time to basically see where the overlapping safe spot for both mechanics is. The other kind of mechanic solving is active "solving the mechanic". Might seem a bit too much circle logic, but there is a very fine example to demonstrate this, the double meteors from Red Choctober in Bozja.

At the beginning, two opposite meteor markers appear, and their proximity damage telegraphs clearly indicate where the 2 safe spots are. After a few seconds, another set of 2 opposite meteor marks appear one position on the clock further. What can be observed is that when this second set of meteors appear, is that quite a few people, even those with 30 rays, start running to a "safe" spot that corresponds to all four currently visible markers. But the thing is, that the meteors don't resolve at the same time. And the proximity damage is pretty high, often killing quite a few. The correct way to solve this, is to stand at the safe spot for the first pair of meteors, wait for them to resolve, then go to the next safe spot, rinse and repeat. A mechanic is presented, and the mechanic is then correctly resolved, not "just going to the safe spot".

That is why this gap can not be bridged by content, because it isn't a content gap. The moment a mechanic requires anything, no matter how little, more than "going to the obviously visible safe spot", it will not be resolvable for players who approach all mechanics with a "dodge the simple telegraph" mindset. And any player who does make the switch, is then also able to do EX content. I mean, look at what other mechanics regularly floor people in Bozja: The spidertron shoots it's turret adds on the side, and every turret that got shot, will in turn shoot a line aoe themselves. The fire / earth combo in CLL, which requires people to wait at the outer ring for the pyretic debuff to pass, and then move into the middle ring after the earth explosion. The math boss requires using your forced march debuff to move into the correct tower for the incoming calculation.

None of these mechanics are difficult, they don't require a guide like someone else here implied. But they also cannot be solved with the "just gonna dodge the marker" attitude.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

I mean, when you spend more time actually clearing the fight versus crying on the forums like the NA/EU base does, yeah it's no surprise they have 3x the clear rates either. So we can continue to parse around it like several people in this thread want to but it is in fact a player issue.

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The people who finance the game through their subscriptions, and without whom the game would not exist, are the problem? I see.

This reminds me of a university administrator who was quite convinced the college of liberal arts and sciences would function perfectly were it not for the presence of students.

It depends on the Extreme, what mechanics we're talking about, and when the fight is tackled.

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Originally Posted by jadeharley

Japanese players are on average better than NA players, yeah. I think the possibility of travel between these server regions would end up causing problems because of this.

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Many Japanese players would argue otherwise. The major difference between NA and JP isn't skill level, but a willingness to carry and participate in content altogether. JP is far more willing to put up with bad players, which contributes heavily to their clear quota. Likewise, JP's general mentality is "the devs made content for us. We should do it." Comparatively, NA's mentality is, "I don't like this content. So I'm not doing it."

That all said, I agree that the two demographics would be like mixing oil and water. You wouldn't even get by placement wars because NA absolutely refuses to use macros while JP lives by a set strat they will not deviant from no matter what better versions release.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

The people who finance the game through their subscriptions, and without whom the game would not exist, are the problem? I see.

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If you cannot clear midcore content then you should consider either put in some effort in getting better, or don't bother with it and let the others who CAN clear that content have their fun and rewards.
The JP playerbase are just people as well and they seem to get it done just fine.

I've actually had better clears with "enrage to clear prog" groups than I have with Duty Complete runs that fail hard at towers.

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Originally Posted by jadeharley

Japanese players are on average better than NA players, yeah. I think the possibility of travel between these server regions would end up causing problems because of this.

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I'm sure the devs are quite aware of cultural differences, aside from ping issues. JP mostly decides raid finder and a single strategy to clear things, and are macro-based. Here there are silly debates on which of the three or more strats is better, people getting fits over a spot that's already taken, etc. Just weird things that's seen in every other high-end fight, like if you are "farm ready" you should be able to play from any position available.

I wish I could join farm groups to upgrade my gear... but sadly, the ilvl requirements are set so high that I simply can’t join.
At the same time, I understand the reason behind it. The raid can be truly chaotic and even with 6 deaths - you still wipe to enrage. (cause of low dps)
I'm not sure where the fault lies, but I do think CBU3 really needs to adjust something... well, if this content is truly meant for a broader audience.