FFXIV population decline continues

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

When you get that percent as a percentage of people who cleared the normal version, which I think is a good baseline, it's more like 30%. It's also around that much even as a percentage of people who cleared Dawntrail MSQ. The rates in JP climb to around 50%. And Lucky Bancho's stats seem to agree with that too.

And that's just people who got through M4S - it's quite common to just clear 1, 2 or 3 floors.

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...And we still have about 3 months until 7.2. It will keep creeping higher.

Time to collectively agree to stop pretending savage isn't midcore, I guess.

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

Time to collectively agree to stop pretending savage isn't midcore, I guess.

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Does that mean that SE have to add even harder content to make it "hardcore"?
If people consider Savage Midcore.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

Does that mean that SE have to add even harder content to make it "hardcore"?
If people consider Savage Midcore.

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Ultimate already exists. I'd say Criterion (Savage) was hardcore content too, but IDK if we're getting more of those.

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

Ultimate already exists.

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ah, true.
I keep forgetting about that since I don't plan on doing them.

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

https://i.imgur.com/EkL7tQ3.png

90% of the playerbase is casual but 20% cleared M4S and savage isn't midcore content. :rolleyes:

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Are you suggesting there are only 226K characters in this game? Because if you believe that 22.3% of the entire playerbase is 50,387 characters I don't know what to tell you.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Are you suggesting there are only 250K characters in this game? Because if you believe that 22.3% of the entire playerbase is 50,387 characters I don't know what to tell you.

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I'm not sure where this site (MMO-population) gets their numbers from. I'm simply using the first google search I could find.
So keep that in mind.

https://i.imgur.com/HdgkhI6.png

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Are you suggesting there are only 226K characters in this game? Because if you believe that 22.3% of the entire playerbase is 50,387 characters I don't know what to tell you.

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No, I'm not suggesting there are 226k total FFXIV characters. That's 22.3% of the 226k characters tracked by Lalachievements.

If you want more complete statistics, you can find them here:
https://luckybancho.ldblog.jp/archives/58771096.html

(They're about the same)

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

I'm not sure where this site (MMO-population) gets their numbers from. I'm simply using the first google search I could find.
So keep that in mind.

https://i.imgur.com/HdgkhI6.png

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They get their numbers from the subreddits associated with the MMO. It's an ok metric for gauging how much interest there is in particular games but it won't give you a remotely accurate reading of how many actual players a game has.

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

No, I'm not suggesting there are 226k total players. That's 22.3% of the 226k characters tracker by Lalachievements.

If you want more complete statistics, you can find them here:
https://luckybancho.ldblog.jp/archives/58771096.html

(They're about the same)

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Which isn't the entire active playerbase. You can read what they are able to import. Which makes your post rolling your eyes and using an achievement tracker to defend your point off-base to the point you believe you were making.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Which isn't the entire active playerbase. You can read what they are able to import. Which makes your post rolling your eyes and using an achievement tracker to defend your point off-base to the point you believe you were making.

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It's a plenty large enough sample size.

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

It's a plenty large enough sample size.

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But what it is tracking is the most active players on an achievement ranking board. The players that spend the most time looking for achievements are going to be over-represented when it comes to doing savage compared to the average player which doesn't even get imported.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

But what it is tracking is the most active players on an achievement ranking board. The players that spend the most time looking for achievements are going to be over-represented when it comes to doing savage compared to the average player which doesn't even get imported.

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The data is taken from Lodestone.

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

The data is taken from Lodestone.

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And it only gathers certain characters. The most active of all players with the highest number of achievements. The fact it only has gathered 226K is telling.

It also thinks 77% of all players have 500 or more commendations....

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

It's a plenty large enough sample size.

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The size isn't the problem, my man. It's not an accurate representation of the subscriber count. It's pulling from flawed data.

The only people who can tell us what the subscriber count is are at Square Enix and they unfortunately don't share that info. So people are left to make educated guesses using imperfect methods like the one you're pointing to. And that's ultimately all it is... a guess. So, while I'm sure the subscriber count has dipped, the info you're pointing to as proof of that really should not be taken as gospel.

For me, there is just a profound sadness. I will shoot off my mouth on here, yes, but ultimately as a casual player who has played since the ARR beta and has spent 11 years of my life with this game being a part of it, it sucks to see it fall into this pattern of drawn out patch cycles with very little content in each (at least for me). The game is absolutely shifting its focus to players who love hardcore content, raiders and seems to be listening to the XIV content creators and what they want more than the actual player base. And listen, everyone plays for different reasons but its the content cadence schedule that is the problem.

If long-term, casual content dropped in 7.1 - it would hold those of us over who have ZERO interest in savage, ultimate and chaotic when those players get their drops. Instead we are left with nothing for huge bouts of time. I've learned to accept this is the direction FF14 will most likely continue in, so there's not much I can really do about it. Doesn't mean I have to like it.

Folks will say, well there is a lot to do but you choose not to do it. Yes, you're right. I don't like hard fights that I find stressful. It's not why I play. And XIV has always been more of a single player RPG in an MMO wrapping. I also struggle with memory issues and visual cue stuff, so many of these harder fights are very hard for me to do. I could watch videos over and over and see repeated mechanics over and over, and still I would not remember them. I can get by with normal content and raids because I've done them enough and they aren't as punishing, and I also refuse to be a burden on other people.

Yes, I've been angry on these forums about the state of the game for casuals (and justifiably so). Other players on here seem to think we should be the ones to adapt and try harder content, but the truth is many of us don't want to because we simply don't find hours of progging, dying and learning a fight like that fun. It's really that simple.

So, just quit. Well, it's easy to say that, but this game has been a special part of my life for over a decade. It's not so simple as just quit. However, I am reaching that point. And I truly feel, for me, to make the break it would need to be a permanent blowing up of the bridge. A complete character and account deletion with zero ties left. I haven't reached that point yet, but I am so so close. If the story was at least keeping me interested there would be a silver lining, but this new writing team ain't it. And I have found 7.0 and 7.1 to be some of the worst storytelling I've ever experienced.

So, ultimately, I find myself at a crossroads (no pun intended). What I ultimately decide to do will fall to what the 7.2 and 7.3 content cadence looks like. If casual content gets pushed further to 7.4 and 7.5, I doubt I last to that.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

...
The game is absolutely shifting its focus to players who love hardcore content, raiders and seems to be listening to the XIV content creators and what they want more than the actual player base...


So, just quit. Well, it's easy to say that, but this game has been a special part of my life for over a decade. It's not so simple as just quit. However, I am reaching that point. And I truly feel, for me, to make the break it would need to be a permanent blowing up of the bridge. A complete character and account deletion with zero ties left. I haven't reached that point yet, but I am so so close. If the story was at least keeping me interested there would be a silver lining, but this new writing team ain't it. And I have found 7.0 and 7.1 to be some of the worst storytelling I've ever experienced.

....

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Sorry to hear all this.
Please don't delete your account or character. Just in case
Maybe because you entirely don't need to.
I'm confident that if you have a break for long enough, then when you come back, you'll find you don't have the social circle anymore, you went be having a lot of fun, and you will likely leave again soon after.
Just in case dint delete your account, because it's not necessary.

As for the content creators, they used to have fantastic ambassadors for casual like Zepla. It's ironic if that's what they have been doing, because all I've been doing is down voting Chaotic videos to try and get the message through to YouTube to take them out of my personal suggestions. One particular content creator I just flat told you tube not to recommend them at all for anything ever again. I don't like being condescended to in my personal space. Other creators the time has been, some creators the tone has been smug and taunting. But I rarely ever see them in my suggestions so, whatever.
There now aren't any XIV creators that YouTube suggests to me and there haven't been in a long time.

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Originally Posted by NamiRocket

The size isn't the problem, my man. It's not an accurate representation of the subscriber count. It's pulling from flawed data.

The only people who can tell us what the subscriber count is are at Square Enix and they unfortunately don't share that info. So people are left to make educated guesses using imperfect methods like the one you're pointing to. And that's ultimately all it is... a guess. So, while I'm sure the subscriber count has dipped, the info you're pointing to as proof of that really should not be taken as gospel.

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Life must be so much simpler when your head is buried this far in the sand.

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

Sorry to hear all this.
Please don't delete your account or character. Just in case
Maybe because you entirely don't need to.
I'm confident that if you have a break for long enough, then when you come back, you'll find you don't have the social circle anymore, you went be having a lot of fun, and you will likely leave again soon after.
Just in case dint delete your account, because it's not necessary.

As for the content creators, they used to have fantastic ambassadors for casual like Zepla. It's ironic if that's what they have been doing, because all I've been doing is down voting Chaotic videos to try and get the message through to YouTube to take them out of my personal suggestions. One particular content creator I just flat told you tube not to recommend them at all for anything ever again. I don't like being condescended to in my personal space. Other creators the time has been, some creators the tone has been smug and taunting. But I rarely ever see them in my suggestions so, whatever.
There now aren't any XIV creators that YouTube suggests to me and there haven't been in a long time.

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"Content creator" is not an accurate term imo. Sure, they may have started as a content creator who loved a game, (FFXIV for this example). But the moment they get a taste of success and viewers start tossing money at them and superchats, then its not about content or the game. It is about money. By any means necessary, and by saying or doing anything needed for the precious algorithm. Any popular content creator is a fraud that will lie as much as they need to if it brings in more subs. I don't get the appeal. They are just as bad as a stuffy, corporate suit trying to increase profit every quarter.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Are you suggesting there are only 226K characters in this game? Because if you believe that 22.3% of the entire playerbase is 50,387 characters I don't know what to tell you.

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The stat is similar if you do it with minions and mounts which don't just include collectors on collecting websites. Also, Lucky Bancho's stats agree that the clear rates are this high.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

I'm not sure where this site (MMO-population) gets their numbers from.

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It gets them from reddit. In other words, that website is bogus. Probably whipped up as a quick cashgrab by AI.

The sort of proper stat work that gets done is from Lucky Bancho, ffxiv census, Square Enix itself, all FFXIV fan websites and discords that can see insights and visitor numbers, and the raw number of total characters made which is over 30 million.

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Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails

without those people you wouldn't have a game be a HC raider on haha remember that more then 90% of the player base is casual and you also have roleplayers midcore players that have been left in the dust since endwalker

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Yeah I know

But if I was a casual player I will just sub 1 month/expansion (and casual player should do this, and well if they dont, I'll keep having content and still unsub for 12-15 month/expansion)

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

A lot of casuals have different reasons for remaining subbed, as honestly it covers such a gigantic area of the game, from people that enjoy story, to people that enjoy the social element, to people doing content from several expansions ago because the game offered nothing, or just people remaining subbed for connections on this game and housing.

Honestly, no given group of players should be treated in the manner which you're suggesting, it's a good way to turn this game to garbage as it isn't just casuals that benefit from the developers adding casual content in the game. Arguably hardcore players benefit just as much, and if you wanted to treat it on a completely reactional basis, e.g., "Oh don't develop any casual content until x number of casuals are gone" then you would be looking at a game with far far longer patch cycles than what we currently have. If all casual players, even by a generous estimate of 70% were to only sub for 1 month across an entire expansion cycle then this game would actually struggle to push content out without being a lot more aggressive on the Mogstation and potentially delving into more objective P2W elements.

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It's about "giving feedback to SE"

If you sub without content being available for you then you say to yoshi "the content is good, keep going"

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

casuals stayed subbed.

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Well dont expect more content if you have already enough content to keep you sub

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

Does that mean that SE have to add even harder content to make it "hardcore"?
If people consider Savage Midcore.

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HC raider usually do everything above/equal ex or savage so to my mind there is enough content for us

2 ultimates
7 ex
12 savage turn
3 criterions
3 chaotic raid ?
a deep dungeon

+ all the "chill" content like dungeons/variant or alliance raid

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Which isn't the entire active playerbase. You can read what they are able to import. Which makes your post rolling your eyes and using an achievement tracker to defend your point off-base to the point you believe you were making.

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it's a large number it's enough to give an idea

take or leav 3-4%

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Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis

It's about "giving feedback to SE"

If you sub without content being available for you then you say to yoshi "the content is good, keep going"

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I would pretty much say the same thing.
That the active numbers of players/subs drop over the span of an expansion is normal and no developer would react to it as "omg, people are leaving".
It's only when that curve takes a drastic nosedive in a short timespan that it will cause an alarm and possible actions from the developers.

And yes, people are very vocal about this expansion.
But when have people not complained about something?
SE is aware of this for sure, no questions about that.
But looking at the numbers of players it's not like they will drop everything to fix it since things are still within the scale of "the normal curve".

Mao nots concerned whats other peoples do. Mao quit game because game no longer funs for Mao. Is really all there is to it. Mao suggests everyones take hard look at whether or not thems still enjoy playing. If game still funs for thems, then keep playing and no worry about whats others do.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

I would pretty much say the same thing.
That the active numbers of players/subs drop over the span of an expansion is normal and no developer would react to it as "omg, people are leaving".
It's only when that curve takes a drastic nosedive in a short timespan that it will cause an alarm and possible actions from the developers.

And yes, people are very vocal about this expansion.
But when have people not complained about something?
SE is aware of this for sure, no questions about that.
But looking at the numbers of players it's not like they will drop everything to fix it since things are still within the scale of "the normal curve".

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People are vocal, but not vocal enough to actually... do anything but complain on the forums Yoshi P more likely than not barely reads.

Everytime (twice) I have contacted Square Enix store support (merch and stuff) they have sent me a proper satisfaction survey.
I wish they cared that much about how happy I am with their game. What's the point in a great store experience, to keep me coming back, when your game means I will 'not' be coming back.
That select your reason for cancelling sub question is useless. I don't. see how they can formulate strategy based on that.
They really ought to put some effort in to capture the reasons in a way that gives them a chance on having something to act on.
I would by now expect the cancel questionnaire to reflect dune if the things I have seen time and again here.
Or maybe even a 'may we contact you to follow this up?'

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

People are vocal, but not vocal enough to actually... do anything but complain on the forums Yoshi P more likely than not barely reads.

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I'm thinking about how the Healer strike was quite vocal and even got attention outside of FFXIV on gaming news and such.
Has anything come of that since then?
I've not been paying much attention to it, but I haven't noticed anything so if that didn't get any traction (yet) then I doubt people being vocal on the forum alone will bring anything.

People really have to start unsubscribing in masses before SE takes notice of how serious people think it is.
Until people do it will just look like people complain but don't think the game is actually "that" bad to actually not play it.

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Originally Posted by Eraden

Mao nots concerned whats other peoples do. Mao quit game because game no longer funs for Mao. Is really all there is to it. Mao suggests everyones take hard look at whether or not thems still enjoy playing. If game still funs for thems, then keep playing and no worry about whats others do.

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Forums won't be the same without you :(

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

Everytime (twice) I have contacted Square Enix store support (merch and stuff) they have sent me a proper satisfaction survey.
I wish they cared that much about how happy I am with their game. What's the point in a great store experience, to keep me coming back, when your game means I will 'not' be coming back.
That select your reason for cancelling sub question is useless. I don't. see how they can formulate strategy based on that.
They really ought to put some effort in to capture the reasons in a way that gives them a chance on having something to act on.
I would by now expect the cancel questionnaire to reflect dune if the things I have seen time and again here.
Or maybe even a 'may we contact you to follow this up?'

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Has SQEX ever sent out a detailed satisfaction survey on the game? It's pretty standard to ask a subscriber base what they like, what they don't like, what they want to see more of...

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Has SQEX ever sent out a detailed satisfaction survey on the game? It's pretty standard to ask a subscriber base what they like, what they don't like, what they want to see more of...

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I received one aimed at veteran players asking detailed questions a few years ago and it let me type paragraphs for my answers. There were others on this forum that received it too. There were a lot of people that didn't receive it, so I assume it didn't count them due to lack of overall subscribed time despite being old players.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Has SQEX ever sent out a detailed satisfaction survey on the game? It's pretty standard to ask a subscriber base what they like, what they don't like, what they want to see more of...

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This is actually true... I've been sub for almost 10 consecutive years and never ever i've received such a thing ... ? It make me feel like they think subs are happy whenever they pay for it.

But did this ever happen to another game from JP companies ? (Like Monster Hunter or else ?) Really curious if this is just cultural or lack of interest from them.

Judging by Google trends I would say the population decline, which is normal, shows nothing meaningful and it's only a buzzword to bait engagement/clicks.

The interest for FF14 has been steady for the past 90 days.

https://trends.google.com/trends/exp...F064ln09&hl=en

And roughly the same in the past year: https://trends.google.com/trends/exp...F064ln09&hl=en

Except for the spike when the new expansion launched, which was also to be expected.

Apparently FFXIV is doing very well in SK (according to a few overseas friends), but only so so in China. Though mobile is king there so they'll certainly eat FFXIVs version when it comes around. Wonder whats SEs cut from all that...

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

Judging by Google trends I would say the population decline, which is normal, shows nothing meaningful and it's only a buzzword to bait engagement/clicks.

The interest for FF14 has been steady for the past 90 days.

https://trends.google.com/trends/exp...F064ln09&hl=en

And roughly the same in the past year: https://trends.google.com/trends/exp...F064ln09&hl=en

Except for the spike when the new expansion launched, which was also to be expected.

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That's the biggest reach I've ever seen to try and make this game look like its in a decent state population wise while in fact the population is literally going down in the biggest manner it ever has.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

Judging by Google trends I would say the population decline, which is normal, shows nothing meaningful and it's only a buzzword to bait engagement/clicks.

The interest for FF14 has been steady for the past 90 days.

https://trends.google.com/trends/exp...F064ln09&hl=en

And roughly the same in the past year: https://trends.google.com/trends/exp...F064ln09&hl=en

Except for the spike when the new expansion launched, which was also to be expected.

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Goggle trends only show how often people searched for that game and not how they engaged with it itself.
The last month FF14 mobile also had more search results that would be included in the normal FF14 search.
The there is also FF14 having quite a number of news articles since DT launched as well as people being just curious about the feedback DT got and searching for it.
Even FF11 has no trend in google searches and that game is in maintenance mode.
As far as I have seen WoW also a pretty constant search history despite it's... problems in the past but I don't know enough about that game to get a connection with releases.

Google trends is not really a good tool to look how happy the playerbase is or how many play the game poitive or negative.
Luckybancho is pretty much the best source of info we have available for player numbers and not a google trend...

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Originally Posted by CalvinDescoles

This is actually true... I've been sub for almost 10 consecutive years and never ever i've received such a thing ... ? It make me feel like they think subs are happy whenever they pay for it.

But did this ever happen to another game from JP companies ? (Like Monster Hunter or else ?) Really curious if this is just cultural or lack of interest from them.

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But they do have that questionnaire when you cancel your sub. But it's just so .. poor.
It's like a day's dev for them to improve it and flesh it out with some more questions, or make it multiple answer. It's like they formulated it 8 years ago and it's still v1.0

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

I'm thinking about how the Healer strike was quite vocal and even got attention outside of FFXIV on gaming news and such.
Has anything come of that since then?
I've not been paying much attention to it, but I haven't noticed anything so if that didn't get any traction (yet) then I doubt people being vocal on the forum alone will bring anything.

People really have to start unsubscribing in masses before SE takes notice of how serious people think it is.
Until people do it will just look like people complain but don't think the game is actually "that" bad to actually not play it.

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I mean this seriously, jokes aside... there was a healer strike? I know it was a thing all over the forums, reddit, everywhere else etc. but did it actually impact anything? Other than hilarious people in PF trying to get gil to play healer.

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

I mean this seriously, jokes aside... there was a healer strike? I know it was a thing all over the forums, reddit, everywhere else etc. but did it actually impact anything? Other than hilarious people in PF trying to get gil to play healer.

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It generated a lot of discussion about the state of healing among the community, which was kind of the point I think?

A lot of content creators covered it and I can guarantee you the devs will have seen it and are now aware that there are a decent number of players who feel that support roles have become boring to play in XIV.