If you're unhappy with this game then unsub... forever.

I didn't struggle to understand the post in question. Not every post needs to be made in perfect English. It's a post on a video game forum at the end of the day, not a graded essay.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I didn't struggle to understand the post in question. Not every post needs to be made in perfect English. It's a post on a video game forum at the end of the day, not a graded essay.

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Thank you, they just didnt have anything of value to say so they thought they'd do that instead, to each their own I guess, if I have nothing to respond I'll just not respond or admit the person was right, but they thought it'd be a cool thing to say "lool you didnt put a comma at the end of your sentence learn english" as a response to me proving them wrong

It's a bit weird to me that some people would easily get worked up about the mere mention of WOW or Blizzard.

The whole argument wasn't even about "WoW bad, FFXIV good."

I believe a lot of people in FFXIV played WOW before. They simply don't see nor want similar system implemented to FFXIV.

I will be cancelling my sub as soon as my criterion group either clears or gives up. Been enjoying Dragonflight waaay more than I've been enjoying Endwalker so I'm just gonna stick with that for my MMO fix.
Need to make space for Starfield on my SSD, so I'll probably uninstall for a while too.

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Originally Posted by SophiaDL

Thank you, they just didnt have anything of value to say so they thought they'd do that instead, to each their own I guess, if I have nothing to respond I'll just not respond or admit the person was right, but they thought it'd be a cool thing to say "lool you didnt put a comma at the end of your sentence learn english" as a response to me proving them wrong

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They for some reason feel the need to constantly bring up wow when someone brings up a complaint about ff14 and tell people "we could have it worse ff14 could be like wow" then always brings up the wow token and rmt in wow in threads that never mention wow. Then insults people who don't agree with them and there random takes on wow when that game never gets mentioned.

Most of us will if 7.0 doesn't deliver, almost all my friends quit already, game hasn't been good since SB.

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Originally Posted by SophiaDL

That's all good and beautiful in a rainbow world.

Fact is, if there was a loss of playerbase, they would just spit out more mogstation purchases, put up the price, and people would jump in in droves to buy the stuff. (which they started doing lately by the way, more and more stuff on the shop)

Literally all they have to do is sell a $500 plushie of graha eating a taco, and people would fight for it black friday style if it was an in person sale, and it'd go out of stock in a matter of 5 minutes if it was on the site.

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Sadly this is the truth. Us gamers really deserve what we get coming with the industry because were so complacent and self indulgent with companies doing whatever they want. This didnt happen overnight either.

Its amazing how we all hold the power to make devs change the game if 90% or even 60% of the playerbase quits today but thats realistically never gonna happen unless by very extreme circumstances.

How many of these do I got? Let's just say I can go on...

https://i.ibb.co/PQxGgNq/200w-4.gif

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Originally Posted by Renalt

How many of these do I got? Let's just say I can go on...

https://i.ibb.co/PQxGgNq/200w-4.gif

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I wouldve gone with the naked Mr.Krabs "and the next day, and the next day, and the next day, and the next day, and the next day"

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

They for some reason feel the need to constantly bring up wow when someone brings up a complaint about ff14 and tell people "we could have it worse ff14 could be like wow" then always brings up the wow token and rmt in wow in threads that never mention wow. Then insults people who don't agree with them and there random takes on wow when that game never gets mentioned.

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I played WoW for more than a decade. I should have quit in WoD when I really saw how the game was going. I hung on until mid BFA when I sort of woke up to the fact that the game hadn't been fun for me Since Pandaria. Found this game and never looked back. There were good things about WoW. For me I am just done with WoW.

Strangely the token kept me in that game for nearly a year past when I thought it was worth spending money on since I was able to blow through my gold that I had earned over the years and pay my sub that way. Yeah I do agree the token was bad for the games economy though.

Although I am still very much enjoying my time FFXIV I completely agree that the only way the company is going to care about what you all want is to hit them in the pocket book. I won't be joining those of you who choose to unsub. No reason for me to as there is still a great deal of stuff I want to get done in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Myrany

I played WoW for more than a decade. I should have quit in WoD when I really saw how the game was going. I hung on until mid BFA when I sort of woke up to the fact that the game hadn't been fun for me Since Pandaria. Found this game and never looked back. There were good things about WoW. For me I am just done with WoW.

Strangely the token kept me in that game for nearly a year past when I thought it was worth spending money on since I was able to blow through my gold that I had earned over the years and pay my sub that way. Yeah I do agree the token was bad for the games economy though.

Although I am still very much enjoying my time FFXIV I completely agree that the only way the company is going to care about what you all want is to hit them in the pocket book. I won't be joining those of you who choose to unsub. No reason for me to as there is still a great deal of stuff I want to get done in FFXIV.

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Yeah at this point the only way they will deviate from this current formula is if they lose a massive amount of players and be forced to try new gameplay systems. I still enjoy the game enough to stay but i can also see that the formula we had for 10 years is stale and would hate to see them use the same formula for the next 10 years and it being the cause of people leaving.

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

Yeah at this point the only way they will deviate from this current formula is if they lose a massive amount of players and be forced to try new gameplay systems. I still enjoy the game enough to stay but i can also see that the formula we had for 10 years is stale and would hate to see them use the same formula for the next 10 years and it being the cause of people leaving.

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The mindset of players as a whole needs to change. We need to stop accepting bland slop of videogame products and be quicker to punish devs who don't listen. Videogame devs keep serving said slop on the spoon because we've shown them that they can and our response is simply 'please sir, may I have some more?'

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

The mindset of players as a whole needs to change. We need to stop accepting bland slop of videogame products and be quicker to punish devs who don't listen. Videogame devs keep serving said slop on the spoon because we've shown them that they can and our response is simply 'please sir, may I have some more?'

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People say blizzard doesn't listen to there players but there is a lot of times it seems ff14 devs doesn't listen either. There are some systems that aren't great in ff14 that they double down on that people don't like and the features people do like there surprised people like it which shows they don't read/look at feedback or player retention for certain things.

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

People say blizzard doesn't listen to there players but there is a lot of times it seems ff14 devs doesn't listen either. There are some systems that aren't great in ff14 that they double down on that people don't like and the features people do like there surprised people like it which shows they don't read/look at feedback or player retention for certain things.

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Something a lot of businesses in general are guilty of is ignoring customer feedback if it contradicts what they think they see in their data metrics spreadsheets.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

The mindset of players as a whole needs to change. We need to stop accepting bland slop of videogame products and be quicker to punish devs who don't listen. Videogame devs keep serving said slop on the spoon because we've shown them that they can and our response is simply 'please sir, may I have some more?'

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What's bland to you might be just what someone else is looking for.

Players need to pay for what they want to be playing instead of paying for what they don't want but think will change. There's no need for a company to change a game if its revenue is meeting/exceeding goals set.

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

People say blizzard doesn't listen to there players but there is a lot of times it seems ff14 devs doesn't listen either. There are some systems that aren't great in ff14 that they double down on that people don't like and the features people do like there surprised people like it which shows they don't read/look at feedback or player retention for certain things.

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Our problem as EN players is we don't know what feedback the JP players are giving. Certainly some agree with EN players but there may be a larger number that disagree.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

Something a lot of businesses in general are guilty of is ignoring customer feedback if it contradicts what they think they see in their data metrics spreadsheets.

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A lot of people will say one thing while doing another. That why they tend to rely on metrics. What people are actually doing affects a company's bottom line a lot more than what they're only saying.

They're not going to listen to feedback unless their metrics show their customers are behaving in ways they did not expect.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

A lot of people will say one thing while doing another. That why they tend to rely on metrics. What people are actually doing affects a company's bottom line a lot more than what they're only saying.

They're not going to listen to feedback unless their metrics show their customers are behaving in ways they did not expect.

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The actual problem is they often don't look into it any further than seeing the numbers on the spreadsheet. So they essentially have no actual context of what the numbers actually mean or what lead those numbers to actually be generated. They just go through it to make sure the boxes they want bigger numbers in show bigger numbers and the boxes they want smaller numbers in show smaller numbers. Any outliers to what they want will simply result on looking for a scapegoat or excuse.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

The actual problem is they often don't look into it any further than seeing the numbers on the spreadsheet. So they essentially have no actual context of what the numbers actually mean or what lead those numbers to actually be generated. They just go through it to make sure the boxes they want bigger numbers in show bigger numbers and the boxes they want smaller numbers in show smaller numbers. Any outliers to what they want will simply result on looking for a scapegoat or excuse.

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You might be thinking of it too simply. They're going to look at past trends at similar points in a development cycle. Some deviation is expected of course but only in small amounts.

If normally they would have 30% of the player base participating in Savage raiding during a certain patch cycle but that number has dropped to 10%, they're going to want to know why that content has lost 2/3s of its normal participants. That's when they're going to start checking feedback. If it's only dropped from 30% to 27%, then they they don't have much reason to care.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

You might be thinking of it too simply. They're going to look at past trends at similar points in a development cycle. Some deviation is expected of course but only in small amounts.

If normally they would have 30% of the player base participating in Savage raiding during a certain patch cycle but that number has dropped to 10%, they're going to want to know why that content has lost 2/3s of its normal participants. That's when they're going to start checking feedback. If it's only dropped from 30% to 27%, then they they don't have much reason to care.

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I have always suspected with most games it is a combination of what you are saying and the following.

What demographic of player makes us the most money?
<checks data>
Ok how many players can we expect to lose if we make x change to cater to that demographic?
<checks historical data>
Do we have enough new players coming in to cover the loss?
<checks data>

here it can slide into What will sell well in the store to make up the loss or even increase revenue?
<checks data>


In short if changes are not happening there is not enough lost revenue to justify them.

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Originally Posted by Myrany

I have always suspected with most games it is a combination of what you are saying and the following.

What demographic of player makes us the most money?
<checks data>
Ok how many players can we expect to lose if we make x change to cater to that demographic?
<checks historical data>
Do we have enough new players coming in to cover the loss?
<checks data>

here it can slide into What will sell well in the store to make up the loss or even increase revenue?
<checks data>


In short if changes are not happening there is not enough lost revenue to justify them.

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I suspect along with the satisical data, creative ideas are then added. It can not be anyone thing with games that drive the process. I am sure many games have been ruined by just one set of data points being listened to (wildstar) for one. This thread kinda goes along with another topic on this forum. The harder content topic. There has to be a balance of the pendulum swings to far in anyone direction it will lose subs. But and there is a but, if the loss of subs in anyone direction isn't that great and can be made up expect the path of least cost to be taken. It's a business after all.

I just wanted to add I remember during the pandemic when cbu3 was in lock down something along the lines of they have 2 years worth of content already done waiting to be implemented, please don't quote me on it but it was something along the lines of the content is made just waiting for all the teams to finalize it. I could be totally mis remembering.

https://i.ibb.co/QPSCBVF/scrubs-forever.gif

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

Precisely. The state of AAA gaming nowadays and also FFXIV's current situation is not solely the fault of the developers. The players contributed to this through lack of awareness when it comes to their actions. It is not wrong to engage in an earnest attempt to increase that awareness.

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Honestly with KCD2, The Alters and Expedition 33, it seems like the best thing you can do these days is to just forget about AAA games and just follow AA studios.

Also I just gotta say, it's always amazing how absolutely nothing changes in FF14 for the last couple of years. I can just look at any thread from 2022 or 2023 and it's still the same shit lmao

The ants! The numbers! The need to police things!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bic12

Also I just gotta say, it's always amazing how absolutely nothing changes in FF14 for the last couple of years. I can just look at any thread from 2022 or 2023 and it's still the same shit lmao

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Good thing about the relics is now we get to do that in Field Exploration, which is better than nothing, to be frank. It was a missed opportunity not to have one in Endwalker.

Necroing threads bad :(

But also

Hi mom we are in the new posts page :D

https://i.imgur.com/1T5cUly.png

Please unsub and stay happy.

Why does it bother you that someone would choose the easy version of an instanced duty? It doesn't affect you or your gameplay. By nerfed you mean they added in easier difficulties right? The normal mode is still the regular difficulty right? Also about ff16 many games require you to beat the game on normal before doing hard. That's not a cbu3 thing. Just touch grass

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...hoes-of-wisdom

"What I am about to talk about is a bit nerdy, but even from a producer's perspective there were many points [in the game] that made me think 'Wow, that's amazing', in terms of how they used resources, how they made it, and the game design."

"The base resources used in the game are almost the same as other Zelda games", the director continues, praising Nintendo's ability to keep costs down "by focusing all the efforts on making the game fun to play."
...
"Yoshi-P thinks that Echoes of Wisdom is a great case study for people wanting to get into game development;"


...
......
...........


I don't know. I can't verify the original.
https://www.famitsu.com/article/202507/46603

When I envisage the future, it's me not coming back for 8.0 either and watching from afar.

I'm gonna go play Expedition 33 where they actually built a player experience for the casual gamer, rather than just bastardising their hardcore experience to spoon-feed me like a mere after thought, and where its not all just reused assets on the cheap.

As for Nintendo... well... that's for the 1%. Must be nice for some, I guess that's my sub fees have bought. Enjoy your other games Yoshi! That's a bit beyond my means. I spent my spare income on DT pre-order almost uninterrupted sub for five years, and cash shop, and merchandise.

Feel free to tell me to "take my meds" , white knights. It's not like the useless mod team of these forums will get out of bed to sanction you. Those kinds of insults are fine apparently.

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Originally Posted by BunnyBrat

Why does it bother you that someone would choose the easy version of an instanced duty? It doesn't affect you or your gameplay. By nerfed you mean they added in easier difficulties right? The normal mode is still the regular difficulty right? Also about ff16 many games require you to beat the game on normal before doing hard. That's not a cbu3 thing. Just touch grass

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I know another MMO that went the "git gud" route and made their pve experience needlessly complex to tickle the top %. Its called Wildstar and its dead and buried.

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Originally Posted by Hallarem

I know another MMO that went the "git gud" route and made their pve experience needlessly complex to tickle the top %. Its called Wildstar and its dead and buried.

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Isn't EVE online needlessly complex and still strong today?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Volgia

Isn't EVE online needlessly complex and still strong today?

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Does EVE online have a mostly casual audience? Does EVE online have a lot of casual content and then ramps up suddenly? Not jabbing, asking in a legit manner.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hallarem

Does EVE online have a mostly casual audience? Does EVE online have a lot of casual content and then ramps up suddenly? Not jabbing, asking in a legit manner.

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I mean, does it matter? The problem with Wildstar wasn't it's complexities, it was that it didn't have enough time to grow. It was competing with other MMO powerhouses that had 10 times more content that Wildstar could produce in it's lifetime. Why go for something like Wildstar with GW2 and WoW around?

I remember when it came out, I played it for a little while before stopping, but most of my friends who played WoW announced it like the new thing that we would migrate to. Within a month, they were all back playing WoW.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hallarem

Does EVE online have a mostly casual audience? Does EVE online have a lot of casual content and then ramps up suddenly? Not jabbing, asking in a legit manner.

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Fun for that depends on how much you find multiboxing, aka multiple active accounts, is fun. Also you basically have to join a corporation (equivalent to a free company) because it makes it easier on yourself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Volgia

I mean, does it matter? The problem with Wildstar wasn't it's complexities, it was that it didn't have enough time to grow. It was competing with other MMO powerhouses that had 10 times more content that Wildstar could produce in it's lifetime. Why go for something like Wildstar with GW2 and WoW around?

I remember when it came out, I played it for a little while before stopping, but most of my friends who played WoW announced it like the new thing that we would migrate to. Within a month, they were all back playing WoW.

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Oh yes, it had multiple things going bad for it, a niche setting, and think WoW tanked it with releasing their expansion at the same time, but one of the killing blows was catering way too much to the hardcore audience. It wasn't' the "Time to grow" it was what it did with the time it was given plus a lot of other factors. They just leaned way too stubbornly into their whole "We are way more hardcore than WoW is" when WoW was popular exactly because it was casual and easy to approach. Because of the dev teams bad decisions plus the other factors it didn't have staying power.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hallarem

Oh yes, it had multiple things going bad for it, a niche setting, and think WoW tanked it with releasing their expansion at the same time, but one of the killing blows was catering way too much to the hardcore audience. It wasn't' the "Time to grow" it was what it did with the time it was given plus a lot of other factors. They just leaned way too stubbornly into their whole "We are way more hardcore than WoW is" when WoW was popular exactly because it was casual and easy to approach. Because of the dev teams bad decisions plus the other factors it didn't have staying power.

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It was just bad timing and a tight market issue, more than bad advertisement. It did manage to get a massive influx of player but it had no retention.... because people were too used to WoW and it's competitors. I remember it quite clearly when I asked, weren't you gone to Wildstar? And the response, "But there's nothing to do in that game". They just ate through the content real fast.

Casual players, on the other hand, and by this I mean the people who have busy lives and play on their own time, had different things going on back then, and if any of them were attracted to an MMO, GW2 fit the bill better with no subscription, WoW fit the bill better with it's massive reputation, I could go on I guess, but I think I made my point.

I can draw a parallel here with Overwatch competitors, Marvel Rivals being in the right time and place to upstage it. But boy, the amount of 6v6 hero shooters that were actively more fun to play that ended up dead might match the MMO graveyard of the early 2010s.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Volgia

Isn't EVE online needlessly complex and still strong today?

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EVE itself is arguably needlessly complex, but the PvE for the most part is pretty trivial.

It supports a wide array of playstyles, to the point market traders rarely undock.

I'm not sure it's a very good model for anything, since it is so niche, but I've just returned and it is in better shape than it was 5 years ago IMO.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chasingstars

Fun for that depends on how much you find multiboxing, aka multiple active accounts, is fun. Also you basically have to join a corporation (equivalent to a free company) because it makes it easier on yourself.

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Having to join a corporation is a myth spread by nullsec corporations, whose main goal seems to grab new players and turn them into F1 monkeys. And while I have multiple accounts, I've never multiboxed. It simplifies some content like fleet mining and ganking, but it's far from necessary.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hallarem

Oh yes, it had multiple things going bad for it, a niche setting, and think WoW tanked it with releasing their expansion at the same time, but one of the killing blows was catering way too much to the hardcore audience. It wasn't' the "Time to grow" it was what it did with the time it was given plus a lot of other factors. They just leaned way too stubbornly into their whole "We are way more hardcore than WoW is" when WoW was popular exactly because it was casual and easy to approach. Because of the dev teams bad decisions plus the other factors it didn't have staying power.

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Not sure I fully agree. Wildstar had a great setting that no other MMO really has. It was a Firefly-esque sci-fi + western setting.

Its biggest problem was that they released with a lot of features that weren't complete because they thought they could finish it before the players got to it. The endgame was poorly thought out/non-existent. I agree they were a bit stubborn on changing some aspects before it was too late.

It's a shame too, because I've never really found another MMO that captures the things I liked about that game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

The increased monetization

No game with a monthly subscription should also charge you money for items. I don't care if it's 'only cosmetic' or not. While it may be a less aggregious offense, it's still double-dipping. But why should they stop? The players have clearly shown through their wallets that they condone these practices, regardless of complaint. They'll happily continue to thrust their money into the pockets of SE for these cosmetic baubles and SE will be only too happy to oblige. Actions speak louder than words. You can't complain about items being on the mog station when you're continually endorsing it with your purchases. If you want it to stop, then players have to unite and 'go on strike' so to speak and stop purchasing these. You can shout until your voice leaves you, but it won't make a difference.

Conclusion

SE and yes, even CBU3 is a business. Their goal is maximize profit and over the years they have become increasingly corporate in their attitude. Corporations do not care if you're unhappy with their product, so long as you keep buying it. Ask yourself, if a restaurant served you the most bland and tasteless steak, can you imagine going there again and again to keep purchasing it? To give that restaurant your business? What if they refused to give you steak sauce unless you shelled out an additional 5$? Can you imagine a restaurant full of people going there and continuing to buy their food with that being the case? Isn't that insanity? So then how is it that we've reached this state when it comes to games? How is it we continue to complain about how unhappy we are and yet purchase their products and fall into their traps ad infinitum?

We shout ourselves hoarse to be heard and yet our actions and in this case our wallets, speak louder than our words ever will. The corporations do not care about our complaints because they are nothing but empty threats.

'Must I spell it out for you? No one is listening. No one at all!'

https://i.imgur.com/1T5cUly.png

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I don’t have a problem with mounts being sold on the Mog Station or being available for purchase in general. The real issue is that with each new expansion, we seem to be getting less and less value for our money—pushing more players towards the cash shop. For example, Dawntrail launched with just 11 mounts, while WoW's latest expansion offered 28 right from the start—and WoW even allows players to earn some store mounts just by playing the game. On top of that, we’re now seeing gear sets split up and sold in parts to squeeze out more money, along with things like posters that used to be free event rewards now being monetised. It’s frustrating to feel like we’re paying more but getting less.

Agreed. Use your wallet to make a statement. They will listen to $$$ the most.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...hoes-of-wisdom

"What I am about to talk about is a bit nerdy, but even from a producer's perspective there were many points [in the game] that made me think 'Wow, that's amazing', in terms of how they used resources, how they made it, and the game design."

"The base resources used in the game are almost the same as other Zelda games", the director continues, praising Nintendo's ability to keep costs down "by focusing all the efforts on making the game fun to play."
...
"Yoshi-P thinks that Echoes of Wisdom is a great case study for people wanting to get into game development;"


...
......
...........


I don't know. I can't verify the original.
https://www.famitsu.com/article/202507/46603

When I envisage the future, it's me not coming back for 8.0 either and watching from afar.

I'm gonna go play Expedition 33 where they actually built a player experience for the casual gamer, rather than just bastardising their hardcore experience to spoon-feed me like a mere after thought, and where its not all just reused assets on the cheap.

As for Nintendo... well... that's for the 1%. Must be nice for some, I guess that's my sub fees have bought. Enjoy your other games Yoshi! That's a bit beyond my means. I spent my spare income on DT pre-order almost uninterrupted sub for five years, and cash shop, and merchandise.

Feel free to tell me to "take my meds" , white knights. It's not like the useless mod team of these forums will get out of bed to sanction you. Those kinds of insults are fine apparently.

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Why haven't you quit? You said you were going to quit like 20482848818 times