Time to Quit

Unless you find this fun Renathras ( in which case keep it up! ) you should save your sanity.

You're playing chess against pigeons that will strut around the board, crap on it, knock over a pawn by accident, and declare themselves the winner.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

lots of words, not a lot of things

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I ain't reading that, learn to write shorter stuff, it's getting tiring. Such essays are justified only if they actually have something in them. But your essays have too little meat, for how long they are. Everyone can write long stuff, the best of us can get the same idea across while using minimum amount of words.

But if I were to guess what are you ranting about now, it's because of your deranged napkin calculations that you're trying to defend. Reason why your 0.5% - 1% is absolutely inane is because there is always about 20K active Mare users at any given time. You were calculating some ffxivcensus/luckybanchoo data, which are users logging once daily or similar metrics, not active users at any given time..

So you mixed Mare's at any given time with your daily login and that's why you ended up with such a nonsense. There really isn't 2-4M players at any given time in this game. And as someone else already pointed out, Mare users make 14% of population, so you could, you know, just ask him for source, just like he offered? Preferably with simple message, nobody is reading your way too long rants.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

Unless you find this fun Renathras ( in which case keep it up! ) you should save your sanity.

You're playing chess against pigeons that will strut around the board, crap on it, knock over a pawn by accident, and declare themselves the winner.

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this guy's actually getting depressed because of the forums

i actually feel kinda bad now

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

It might be an "interesting experiment", but no sane company CEO is going to approve such a move. The liability lawsuits would cripple any game company involved in such stupidity.

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That's odd. Since when is it illegal to not allow modding? Are you telling me that WoW is also banned in Japan? Are you telling me that FFXIV's own TOS opens them up to lawsuits? Are you telling me there's no way they can find mod users?

The LB survey isn't even once daily - it's unique character logins at least once in the survey period (usually spanning 2-4 months) subject to its specified requirements. That's it. It's quite a generous way of gauging the number of players.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

misinformation

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LOL this is the guy that said BLM can't slidecast, talking about misinformation

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Originally Posted by AlienDiplomat

The thing is, housing is a core component of the game to my way of thinking. You can have the coolest game in the world, but if you neglect an essential core component so that maybe 20% of the population or less even get to participate [...] As nice as the whole thing looks, that is still going to leave 80+% of the guests with a pretty bad taste in their mouth.

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The thing with your example, even if we assume the 20% is accurate, is that not everyone who comes to the game is concerned about housing.

There are enough people outside the 20% who want housing and can't get it, that they are frustrated by the current system. That is undeniably true. But it doesn't mean that every player feels the same way.

I had a house on my old server before I moved to Materia. It was fun to put together, but that was prettymuch it. Once it was done, it was nice to go into, like looking back at an artwork I'd done – but I also didn't feel like there was anything to actually do with it once it was done. I couldn't bring it cross-server with me and I'm not feeling like I want to do it over again.

Other people aren't going to want to do it at all, or they'll find that a private chamber in their FC house is enough.

In short, maybe only 20% can get a house, but that doesn't mean the whole remaining 80% are wanting one. It's certainly not what I expect out of a fantasy RPG, which is what the game is primarily marketed as.

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Originally Posted by Deo14

YOU are complaining about nitpicking technicalities? But that's 50% of your arguments! Other half is complaining that other party is being mean to you.

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ur actually being really mean to ben shapiro, he's gonna start crying

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The thing with your example, even if we assume the 20% is accurate, is that not everyone who comes to the game is concerned about housing.

There are enough people outside the 20% who want housing and can't get it, that they are frustrated by the current system. That is undeniably true. But it doesn't mean that every player feels the same way.

I had a house on my old server before I moved to Materia. It was fun to put together, but that was prettymuch it. Once it was done, it was nice to go into, like looking back at an artwork I'd done – but I also didn't feel like there was anything to actually do with it once it was done. I couldn't bring it cross-server with me and I'm not feeling like I want to do it over again.

Other people aren't going to want to do it at all, or they'll find that a private chamber in their FC house is enough.

In short, maybe only 20% can get a house, but that doesn't mean the whole remaining 80% are wanting one. It's certainly not what I expect out of a fantasy RPG, which is what the game is primarily marketed as.

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When it comes to housing, there is serious problem with scarcity-induced demand, and I'm personally guilty of that. I wasn't interested in housing back then, but since I've heard how hard it is to get one, I jumped to new EU server when I had the opportunity and bought nice M house in Mist. I wasn't really doing much with it, since I wasn't really interested in housing at that time. So there are people that are interested in housing, but they cannot get one, yet there are plenty of people with houses that do not use them, but don't want to lose them either, just in case they'll like in it future or because they don't want to lose something so valuable.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

That's odd. Since when is it illegal to not allow modding? Are you telling me that WoW is also banned in Japan? Are you telling me that FFXIV's own TOS opens them up to lawsuits? Are you telling me there's no way they can find mod users?

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There's a big difference between detecting use of mods and installing software to a player client that would block those mods from launching.

They can detect if they choose to. They've stated that they're not interested in doing so for now because of privacy issues.

Blocking the mod from launching could leave them tied up in the courts for years and it probably would not end in their favor. They have no legal right to interfere in user agreements between other parties even if one party is violating their agreement with SE by using of the mod. Not even Blizzard attempts to block unauthorized mods from launching and their legal team dwarfs anything SE could afford to field.

Detect then ban? Yes. Block? No.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

It's certainly not what I expect out of a fantasy RPG, which is what the game is primarily marketed as.

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Quite a lot of fantasy RPG's do have some form of player housing, though, to be fair. It's pretty much become a staple for me. I like immersing myself in a game world and having a slice of that game world to call my own allows for me to do as much.

The Witcher 3 has a house for Geralt to acquire. Stardew Valley revolves heavily around a farmhouse - and farm - to be customised to one's liking. Monster Hunter World has partial player housing. Skyrim, even unmodded, has DLC that allows for player housing. The Elder Scrolls Online has player housing and very intricate furnishing/house designs at that. Even World of Warcraft has a variant of player housing, limited in design in the form of garrisons.

Certainly, it isn't a mandatory feature or something everybody is interested in but I'd wager the amount of people who do like player housing is pretty meaty. There's also individuals who do not like decorating a house themselves but appreciate the efforts of those who do.

That aside, as a shameless plug if anybody happens to be interested in visiting my house then it is Plot 3, 24 Ward, The Lavender Beds (Large) on Cerberus.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

The LB survey isn't even once daily - it's unique character logins at least once in the survey period (usually spanning 2-4 months) subject to its specified requirements. That's it. It's quite a generous way of gauging the number of players.

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Also tends to include things (the Job counts) about players who logged out with a current tier Extreme's weapon. Which means they played more than just a quick log in and out again.

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Originally Posted by Koros

LOL this is the guy that said BLM can't slidecast, talking about misinformation

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Gaius, I'm still not going to date you. No amount of you talking dirty to me - when you lie about people, it's dirty talk in your mind, I guess? - is going to make me love you. I don't love liars. If you want me to love you as much as you obsess over me, you're going to have to stop lying all the time.

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Originally Posted by Deo14

...

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TOO.
LATE.

I'm not reading any of that. I gave you a chance for a good faith discussion. Several, in fact. You didn't want one. Why should I give you one now? You can't even make that post without more insults.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The thing with your example, even if we assume the 20% is accurate, is that not everyone who comes to the game is concerned about housing.

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This.

A lot of people have an unfortunate habit of assuming because they want something, so does everyone else.

Also, a lot of people could have gotten houses that didn't want THAT one. When the bidding started, there were many Smalls that had 0-3 bids since everyone was rushing the Mediums and Larges. Only when they didn't win those did they consider the Smalls, and most of those had been sold, so then people complained. When they could have bid on the smaller houses before.

Honestly, they just need to remove the need for having a House from things. I honestly have no idea why they won't let people without Houses grow crops or do submarine/airship missions. There's no reason for it other than they want things to be super scarce. But the Housing community is also...uh...it. People complaining from dozens of different angles, for dozens of different things, proposing things that alienate others in the community (many propose making all housing instanced in a "If I can't have one, no one can!" approach, which alienates the ones that DO like having a house in a public neighborhood with neighbors and such), meanwhile, tons of players genuinely couldn't care less.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Quite a lot of fantasy RPG's do have some form of player housing, though, to be fair.

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That's true, but not all do, many don't in all ways, either. That is, what's "housing" is different in a lot of cases.

WoW had Garrisons. Are Garrisons REALLY "housing"? You don't get to pick the location, you can pick the buildings, but you couldn't pick the style or any details about them. Just the same generic building that had a few levels. Haven't played since Legion, but as far as I've heard, it still doesn't have Housing, and FFXIV's Apartment system (something pretty much everyone can get) is more customizable than that. Island Sanctuary alone is already about as customizable as Garrisons were. And WoW was/may still be the most played MMO of all time and with current player numbers.

Witcher 3 isn't an MMO. ESO's housing is (imo) limited since it's instanced only and I didn't feel like I could do as much with it, and honestly, couldn't bring myself to care because of how limiting it felt at the time. LotRO's, too. Skyrim's is also like that, where you have "slots" to put things, you can't just throw things wherever you want.

Agree that there are people wanting it, but it's probably not a majority of the playerbase, and there's a lot of caveats to that, like people who want a public space house (who dislike instanced housing like ESO's) and so on.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Quite a lot of fantasy RPG's do have some form of player housing, though, to be fair. It's pretty much become a staple for me.

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Depends which RPGs you've played, then. I'm trying to think of examples and coming up blank besides "secret bases in Pokémon Ruby/Sapphire".

Perhaps it's a matter of single player versus multiplayer – Pokémon being somewhere in the middle with the multiplayer connection aspect being conducted outside of the game itself, but you could import friends' secret bases.

They seem less receptive to feedback compared to previous expansions. Maybe it’s hubris after years of success now? Hopefully they don’t forget why they had that success in the first place. I don’t think 7.0 will be another 6.0, but man it would be bad if it was

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Originally Posted by Amh_Wilzuun

They seem less receptive to feedback compared to previous expansions. Maybe it’s hubris after years of success now? Hopefully they don’t forget why they had that success in the first place. I don’t think 7.0 will be another 6.0, but man it would be bad if it was

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Feels like hubris.

The fact CBU3 repeated the same problems in the new patch goes to show what they really think about the playerbase.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Curious to know regarding the dissapointment in the relic grinds AND the Mt.Rokkon Savage rewards being absolute donkey.

How many of you are finally giving up this game and quitting and leaving forever? I'm DYING to know your thoughts.

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I'll bite the obvious bait.
I don't think I'm quitting anytime soon. While the current patch contents may be a bit underwhelming, I'm still having fun finishing up the leveling grind, enjoying BLU a whole ton, and aside from that, enjoying just general player interaction.
Some days the game gets slower than usual. Those days, I simply do dailies and go play other games. FFXIV is not meant or designed to be the ONLY game you play ALL THE TIME. And thank god for that.

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Originally Posted by LinaAkayomi

I'll bite the obvious bait.
I don't think I'm quitting anytime soon. While the current patch contents may be a bit underwhelming, I'm still having fun finishing up the leveling grind, enjoying BLU a whole ton, and aside from that, enjoying just general player interaction.
Some days the game gets slower than usual. Those days, I simply do dailies and go play other games. FFXIV is not meant or designed to be the ONLY game you play ALL THE TIME. And thank god for that.

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https://i.ibb.co/zf1jMSy/IMG-1065.gif

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Originally Posted by Amh_Wilzuun

They seem less receptive to feedback compared to previous expansions. Maybe it’s hubris after years of success now? Hopefully they don’t forget why they had that success in the first place. I don’t think 7.0 will be another 6.0, but man it would be bad if it was

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It might be hubris or at least complacency. Hopefully the WoW exodus didn't go to their heads, especially seeing as they botched that up and couldn't keep a lot of the people from exodus around for long.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

It might be hubris or at least complacency. Hopefully the WoW exodus didn't go to their heads, especially seeing as they botched that up and couldn't keep a lot of the people from exodus around for long.

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I suspect that many of the ones that came in the most recent WoW exodus (it was not the first and won't be the last) didn't stay because they didn't really come to play FFXIV. They came to be part of the band wagon following their favorite streamer. When that streamer bailed and went back to WoW (a likely thing to happen since the streamers career was made on WoW) the followers bailed as well.

Even so there is always the potential for a few of the escapees to decide to stay and some did.

I am the product of 2 different WoW escapee waves (neither because of a streamer in my case). The first was right after the release of ARR when I was fed up with things in WoW and searching for another game. I created a trial account and character and got massively confused by the game within the first 2 days. I had no one to help and the one person I found to "help" dropped me in a zone way to high for my level 3 self and vanished. I had no idea how to get back to where I needed to be so I just logged out and gave up on the game.

My second try happened when I was well and truly done with WoW mid BFA. I remembered I had that old trial somewhere for FFXIV and decided to give the game another try. I managed to revive the trial (Surprisingly it revived as a trial). I couldn't remember what server I had been on so I made a new character (the one I am posting on) and started over again. Something just clicked this time. I fell in love with the game and haven't looked back since. I have since gone back to my original character as a main and rarely play Myrany anymore.

For those interested my initial problem with the game as it turns out was a lack of knowledge of the transportation systems and how the map works. Not only could I not find where I needed to go I couldn't figure out how to get there.

Some refugees do stay and do integrate into the community just fine. Not all will stay. Some like me will eventually come back and try again.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

That's odd. Since when is it illegal to not allow modding?

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For emphasis, since you apparently missed the focus of the post to which I was responding: "I think it'd be quite the interesting experiment for Square Enix to ban mods altogether as of 7.0 and prevent them from being launched."

Edit: if you still don't get it ... gshade, anyone?

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Even World of Warcraft has a variant of player housing, limited in design in the form of garrisons.

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I cringe every time I see someone refer to Garrisons as a form of player housing. They aren't player housing. They're an instanced quest hub with a choice of buildings to place - and none of those choices is a living space for the player character.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Depends which RPGs you've played, then. I'm trying to think of examples and coming up blank besides "secret bases in Pokémon Ruby/Sapphire".

Perhaps it's a matter of single player versus multiplayer – Pokémon being somewhere in the middle with the multiplayer connection aspect being conducted outside of the game itself, but you could import friends' secret bases.

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While I know some older RPGs/MMORPGs had forms of housing, I'd say it was still rare until after The Sims became insanely popular for a time and even then it took a while for it to start appearing more often.

As you say it also depends on the type of RPG. Housing will make sense in some but not others. It makes sense when the player character has downtime in their story leaving them free to do optional activities (common in MMORPGs that are waiting for new patches to release). It would make less sense in a RPG where the player character is on an assignment to explore a remote area for whatever reason (when would the character have a chance to return home?).

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Originally Posted by Amh_Wilzuun

They seem less receptive to feedback compared to previous expansions. Maybe it’s hubris after years of success now? Hopefully they don’t forget why they had that success in the first place. I don’t think 7.0 will be another 6.0, but man it would be bad if it was

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I don't think that they're less receptive. I think the problem is that they have some very specific plans for 7.0 since it's starting a new chapter in the game's life. Things that players are asking for might already be addressed in those plans or may conflict with them. They have a habit of being silent about changes until they are ready to talk about them.

Complaints like the 2 minute meta might seem ignored but that 2 minute meta is so firmly woven into current job design that they can't just pull it mid expansion. They would have to rework every job instead of just the ones having the worst balance problems. They know players hate it. I am expecting to see it gone in the 7.0 job designs.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

For emphasis, since you apparently missed the focus of the post to which I was responding: "I think it'd be quite the interesting experiment for Square Enix to ban mods altogether as of 7.0 and prevent them from being launched."

Edit: if you still don't get it ... gshade, anyone?

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I think most of the community has forgotten why gshade isn't used anymore, assuming they were even paying attention in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I don't think that they're less receptive. (...) They have a habit of being silent about changes until they are ready to talk about them.

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That's my main issue, and that's why they end up feeling less receptive. They talk to us once in a blue moon, and in here they're completely non-existent. It leads to uncertainty in the direction they're headed in, and makes skeptical fans even more uneasy. Even more so considering feedback present since SB is still being repeated to this day.

Their decision to postpone DRG's and AST's rework after the 6.1 backlash, for example, tells us little of the why they did it, since the SAM changes were never formally addressed by the devs. It ends up looking less like they plan to tweak their reworks, and more that they just straight up pushed them to a later date in which the outrage has hopefully died down.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Complaints like the 2 minute meta might seem ignored but that 2 minute meta is so firmly woven into current job design that they can't just pull it mid expansion. They would have to rework every job instead of just the ones having the worst balance problems. They know players hate it. I am expecting to see it gone in the 7.0 job designs.

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I really hope you're right and I'll gladly eat crow if you are, but I'm sure they'll end up doubling down. The job/combat changes have been mainly focused on convenience for a while now (things like comically increasing range of support skills, removing positionals, etc), and what's more convenient, both player-wise and balancing-wise, than putting everything in a neat little 2 min timer with a bow on it? Feels counter-productive to push all those changes during mutiple EW patches only to change them back later.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I cringe every time I see someone refer to Garrisons as a form of player housing. They aren't player housing. They're an instanced quest hub with a choice of buildings to place - and none of those choices is a living space for the player character.

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Thus why I deemed it a 'variant' and 'limited' form of player housing...

Even so, it serves as the closest thing to player housing in that game for role-players to make use of.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Thus why I deemed it a 'variant' and 'limited' form of player housing...

Even so, it serves as the closest thing to player housing in that game for role-players to make use of.

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Honestly there are 3 choices for housing in WoW. Garrison, Panderia Farm, and that ship thing from Legion. Take your pick. I always preferred the Pandaria farm.

if 7.0 suxs im out to this game got more taxes more timers and less stuff to do = next

I cancelled the sub today after playing the new variant and finding it lacking in creativity at all. And yet another tomestone sink for the relic so no enthusiasm to continue.
I wanted to stay, I wanted to believe things would get better. But I'm not going to pay sub fees for stuff I dislike playing.
Will I come back for 7.0 even? I'm not sure. But 6.x has taught me not to buy into the dev's hype.

I just remembered City of Heroes had a form of housing for Supergroups ( FCs ) that you can customize. The big draw was not only that...you can assault other SG halls with the goal to steal their Item of Power. It was a cool form of PvP.

You could defend your base or hope your automated systems could do it...but honestly they were they just to hold them off long enough to get your SG to answer the call.

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Originally Posted by Shori

I cancelled the sub today after playing the new variant and finding it lacking in creativity at all. And yet another tomestone sink for the relic so no enthusiasm to continue.
I wanted to stay, I wanted to believe things would get better. But I'm not going to pay sub fees for stuff I dislike playing.
Will I come back for 7.0 even? I'm not sure. But 6.x has taught me not to buy into the dev's hype.

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Sad but true, and to say that change is virtually unlikely for the 7.0 given how the management and lack of listening they undertook during 6.0 and its 6.x-6.4 patches.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

I'm holding out for 7.0. That will either renew my interest or kill it forever.

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100% my take. 7.0 is make or break for me.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Curious to know regarding the dissapointment in the relic grinds AND the Mt.Rokkon Savage rewards being absolute donkey.

How many of you are finally giving up this game and quitting and leaving forever? I'm DYING to know your thoughts.

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Subbed till January 2024, no plans on going anywhere.

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Originally Posted by Shori

I wanted to stay,[I] I wanted to believe things would get better.

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7.0 will be the litmus test as for whether or not things will get better or if things won't. I'd be lying if I said I was optimistic, but there's a chance that in five or ten years we'll look back at Endwalker as that one expansion that kinda sucked.