Review of 6.3 Story Content

Really, the gods have a lot of reasons to be less then fond of humanity, but I'd imagine they were designed to have an overly positive view of them in spite of all their shortcomings considering who's implied to have created them.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Its currently considered as the worst patch in FFXIV's history.

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LOL says who?

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

LOL says who?

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A vivid imagination is a very powerful thing, never underestimate it, especially when it comes to spinning up fabricated realities.

A lot of people seem to be complaining about the Void/Thirteenth, but as someone who didn't particularly love Endwalker's 6.0 MSQ coming off of ShB, I feel like they're setting up something that could be pretty interesting?
The Thirteenth is basically antithetical to all of the themes of Endwalker, and I kinda love that about it. I know people were expecting 6.3 to be a banger of a story patch like 5.3, but if they're going the direction I think they're going with, I think 6.5 is posed to be a banger too.

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Except, when they finally did, the actual motivations of these antagonists is to just die. Seriously? Was I supposed to find this deep or meaningful?

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Looking at it from my perspective, I think the motivation they ended up giving Cagnazzo and Rubicante was all that they needed to give them. Coming off of the 6.0 MSQ where the whole theme was "forge ahead, make things better, even if things are bad you must not give up and give into despair" is now juxtaposed by the Thirteenth, a world where they literally do not have that opportunity. They cannot die; they have an overwhelming hunger which eventually makes them try to consume and kill any friends they may have due to the all encompassing desire to feed on Aether. There's no opportunity for "the power of friendship" to save them in a world that has been totally consumed by darkness and has been left to rot. The Thirteenth is unlike the First in ShB, it is totally consumed by darkness and even the Ascians gave up on trying to rejoin it because they considered it beyond hope. There's no possible way for them to "forge ahead and not fall into despair" when their entire world is beyond salvation.

So looking at it from that angle, how do the themes of Endwalker apply to any of the characters from the Void? Hell, if you really didn't like Venat/Hydaelyn, isn't the Thirteenth a great example of how messed up her decisions were and how the themes fall flat to anyone not lucky enough to be from the Source? The millions/billions of lives in the Thirteenth were a sacrifice she made to ensure that You and the denizens of the Source could defeat Meteion. Are they supposed to be happy about that? Should they accept that we get to have a happy ending and languish in their misery for eternity? Or does it actually serve as a good motivation that the only thing they want to do is die, because they've inhabited a world for hundreds/thousands of years that doesn't even give them the choice to "rejoin the great flow", something even the Ancients had? They cannot tangibly improve their world. They cannot fix the imbalance between light and dark now that their world is totally consumed. I think the motivation of "end this suffering" is a great one, especially in light of Endwalker. They're nothing like the civilizations we saw in The Dead Ends; their world was forcibly served as a sacrifice to eventually allow us to be saved.

It's why I didn't mind the decision to try and make Zero see companionship/people as a good thing, even if it did feel a bit rushed. Zero got lucky and got taken to a world where she doesn't need to kill and feed to survive, and also a world where she can die and be reborn as all life is on the Source, just as we were lucky to be chosen by Venat and 'born' on the Source. Isn't it incredibly hypocritical for her and us to then try and deny the same to Cagnazzo, Rubicante, or even Golbez? It's awfully easy to be preachy and wax philosophical about morality and how "damning others to save yourself" is wrong when that is LITERALLY what we did as WoL by going back to Elpis and telling Venat about the sundering and essentially writing the timeline to make her do it. That is LITERALLY what Venat did as Hydaelyn and we got to benefit from that by being on the Source, where as they all got to be damned and left to suffer, especially now that Hydaelyn is dead for good.

I don't think every antagonist needs to have 'deep and meaningful' motivations for them to be a good one, and I think Cagnazzo and Rubicante served their purpose well. I'm excited and interested to see where they go with Golbez, and I'm someone who wasn't particularly interested in the story after 6.0 as well. If they pull it off well and don't go for "power of friendship lmao we saved the thirteenth by telling them to stop doing bad things!" then I'll be very pleased with the EW patch storyline.

I didn't really want to get involved in this thread, but I AM going to say this.

I've been playing FFXIV for slightly over a year now. I came here from another MMO, of the F2P variety, that I'd played for over a decade - sadly, said game mutated into a FOMO-fueled, loot-box dependent, mess. It didn't help matters that powercreep ruined the gameplay, and the content drops became more and more infrequent and, last I recall, it was only receiving one or two new episodes (each worth about 30 - 40 minutes play time) roughly every four or five months. The Devs all but admitted that their priority was producing loot boxes and cash-shop bundles (£200) over all else.

My answer to my distaste of that game's business model? I quit playing it.

Do I visit that game's official forum to submit posts expressing my displeasure at what happened to the game? No, I don't. I'll admit, I do sometimes post on that game's Reddit page to antagonize the White Knights who, despite everything, think the game can do no wrong but otherwise? I moved on.
And I can't help but wonder whether the OP should perhaps do the same?

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

I didn't really want to get involved in this thread, but I AM going to say this.

I've been playing FFXIV for slightly over a year now. I came here from another MMO, of the F2P variety, that I'd played for over a decade - sadly, said game mutated into a FOMO-fueled, loot-box dependent, mess. It didn't help matters that powercreep ruined the gameplay, and the content drops became more and more infrequent and, last I recall, it was only receiving one or two new episodes (each worth about 30 - 40 minutes play time) roughly every four or five months. The Devs all but admitted that their priority was producing loot boxes and cash-shop bundles (£200) over all else.

My answer to my distaste of that game's business model? I quit playing it.

Do I visit that game's official forum to submit posts expressing my displeasure at what happened to the game? No, I don't. I'll admit, I do sometimes post on that game's Reddit page to antagonize the White Knights who, despite everything, think the game can do no wrong but otherwise? I moved on.
And I can't help but wonder whether the OP should perhaps do the same?

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And this is exactly why people like me need to speak out against people like this. You're still in a honeymoon phase with this game and can't see it's decline. I've been here since day 1 of ARR. I can. And I refuse to let you and the other people who can't see how the story went from bad in EW to worse in the patches along with the continued degradation of combat gameplay tell me that I can't speak my mind or that doing so is wrong.

FFXIV needs to be better than what it is now. For everyone's sake. Goodness knows that you only stand to benefit from that. You lose nothing from having more long-lived and better designed content and a story written for the intended audience as opposed to a crowd that I struggle to size up. There have been instances where people are so inexplicably attached to the Scions that I genuinely do not know if these types could even sit through the last Harry Potter movies where they ramped up the stakes and the protagonist side took some serious losses.

But then again I seem to remember someone similar telling me that "picking up mercenary party members isn't realistic" (only for the next patch to pick up Zero by way of a Crystal gizmo we just magically happened to have picked up moments before) or that "the WoL is still relearning how to trust food" so I'm not about to consult some of the people on here for their opinion on what constitutes the calibre of story FFXIV deserves.

Never before has it been so easy to tell who here has actually been consuming other media apart from this game and who hasn't. It was the Bloody Banquet and stuff in that vein that got me to take this game seriously. Not some Deviantart OC ripping a bun in half.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

And this is exactly why people like me need to speak out against people like this. You're still in a honeymoon phase with this game and can't see it's decline. I've been here since day 1 of ARR. I can. And I refuse to let you and the other people who can't see how the story went from bad in EW to worse in the patches along with the continued degradation of combat gameplay tell me that I can't speak my mind or that doing so is wrong.

FFXIV needs to be better than what it is now. For everyone's sake. Goodness knows that you only stand to benefit from that. You lose nothing from having more long-lived and better designed content and a story written for the intended audience as opposed to a crowd that I struggle to size up. There have been instances where people are so inexplicably attached to the Scions that I genuinely do not know if these types could even sit through the last Harry Potter movies where they ramped up the stakes and the protagonist side took some serious losses.

But then again I seem to remember someone similar telling me that "picking up mercenary party members isn't realistic" (only for the next patch to pick up Zero by way of a Crystal gizmo we just magically happened to have picked up moments before) or that "the WoL is still relearning how to trust food" so I'm not about to consult some of the people on here for their opinion on what constitutes the calibre of story FFXIV deserves.

Never before has it been so easy to tell who here has actually been consuming other media apart from this game and who hasn't. It was the Bloody Banquet and stuff in that vein that got me to take this game seriously. Not some Deviantart OC ripping a bun in half.

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Give it up, Jesus christ. You aren't saying to make things better, you're saying to make things how YOU want them to be. That is fine until you proceed to act like your way is the one n only good way forward. If they're in the honeymoon phase you're in the grumpy old man phase. You sir are NO BETTER than the folks you call out. Wake tf up

Btw you should take that person you quoted advice

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

And this is exactly why people like me need to speak out against people like this. You're still in a honeymoon phase with this game and can't see it's decline. I've been here since day 1 of ARR. I can. And I refuse to let you and the other people who can't see how the story went from bad in EW to worse in the patches along with the continued degradation of combat gameplay tell me that I can't speak my mind or that doing so is wrong.

FFXIV needs to be better than what it is now. For everyone's sake. Goodness knows that you only stand to benefit from that. You lose nothing from having more long-lived and better designed content and a story written for the intended audience as opposed to a crowd that I struggle to size up. There have been instances where people are so inexplicably attached to the Scions that I genuinely do not know if these types could even sit through the last Harry Potter movies where they ramped up the stakes and the protagonist side took some serious losses.

But then again I seem to remember someone similar telling me that "picking up mercenary party members isn't realistic" (only for the next patch to pick up Zero by way of a Crystal gizmo we just magically happened to have picked up moments before) or that "the WoL is still relearning how to trust food" so I'm not about to consult some of the people on here for their opinion on what constitutes the calibre of story FFXIV deserves.

Never before has it been so easy to tell who here has actually been consuming other media apart from this game and who hasn't. It was the Bloody Banquet and stuff in that vein that got me to take this game seriously. Not some Deviantart OC ripping a bun in half.

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If harry potter is the best example you can think of then I think it really is for the best that the story doesnt cater to you.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

FFXIV needs to be better than what it is now. For everyone's sake. Goodness knows that you only stand to benefit from that. You lose nothing from having more long-lived and better designed content and a story written for the intended audience as opposed to a crowd that I struggle to size up.

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See the problem here is you're conflating your own personal taste and preference as being an objective statement, which is false. You stand to gain a story that is better aligned with your own preferences, and other people potentially stand to lose a story for something that may not be aligned with their own personal preferences. The story is subjective and you simply dislike it whilst others may like it.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

antagonize the White Knights who, despite everything, think the game can do no wrong

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Same

https://files.catbox.moe/xlg3tb.jpg

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

And this is exactly why people like me need to speak out against people like this. You're still in a honeymoon phase with this game and can't see it's decline. I've been here since day 1 of ARR. I can. And I refuse to let you and the other people who can't see how the story went from bad in EW to worse in the patches along with the continued degradation of combat gameplay tell me that I can't speak my mind or that doing so is wrong.

FFXIV needs to be better than what it is now. For everyone's sake. Goodness knows that you only stand to benefit from that. You lose nothing from having more long-lived and better designed content and a story written for the intended audience as opposed to a crowd that I struggle to size up. There have been instances where people are so inexplicably attached to the Scions that I genuinely do not know if these types could even sit through the last Harry Potter movies where they ramped up the stakes and the protagonist side took some serious losses.

But then again I seem to remember someone similar telling me that "picking up mercenary party members isn't realistic" (only for the next patch to pick up Zero by way of a Crystal gizmo we just magically happened to have picked up moments before) or that "the WoL is still relearning how to trust food" so I'm not about to consult some of the people on here for their opinion on what constitutes the calibre of story FFXIV deserves.

Never before has it been so easy to tell who here has actually been consuming other media apart from this game and who hasn't. It was the Bloody Banquet and stuff in that vein that got me to take this game seriously. Not some Deviantart OC ripping a bun in half.

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At no point did I say, or imply, that you shouldn't speak your mind. I simply stated my opinion; I mean, I could log into the forum of that game I used to play and start posting angry threads and replies detailing why I wish that game could be what it was five or ten years ago, but it wouldn't acheive anything beyond maintaining said bitterness (and would probably result in locked threads and suspension/expulsion from that forum).

I don't know - you know this forum far better than I do, and if you think the Devs might listen/pay attention to your feedback, more power to you.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Same

https://files.catbox.moe/xlg3tb.jpg

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I'm no White Knight. I don't think this game is perfect, nor do I think that the Devs/YoshiP can do no wrong. I do however feel the game hits more right notes than wrong ones.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

And this is exactly why people like me need to speak out against people like this. You're still in a honeymoon phase with this game and can't see it's decline. I've been here since day 1 of ARR. I can. And I refuse to let you and the other people who can't see how the story went from bad in EW to worse in the patches along with the continued degradation of combat gameplay tell me that I can't speak my mind or that doing so is wrong.

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Hot damn dude, while there are time and place where I can understand people need vindication, but I'm pretty sure a video game should never be one of those.

The majority of your posts seem to be:

- Project yourself as the speaker of majority.
- Casting yourself as some kind of messiah saving the game from the impending doom.
- Acting as if you're doing people a favor.


Like, it's not uncommon for the usual complainers somehow project the game will fail (when it isn't) unless the game does what they want, but you're just taking it to several other levels. At this point I feel it's not really about the game anymore, you're just desperately seeking validation.


Btw, I'm also here since near the beginning of 2.0 and still be happy with the game in general. Sometime you just have to acknowledge it ain't the honeymoon period, people just found a good match. You're striking me as someone who getting angry that people are getting along but not in the way you imagine it has to be. Which is again, seem like a self-esteem and validiation issue.


In fact at this point I hope you're simply trolling and just trying to get a reaction out of people. 'Cause hey, it's the internet, some people do that for fun. Because if you're actually serious about everything you type ... then I'm worried about you on a mental-wellness level.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

I didn't really want to get involved in this thread, but I AM going to say this.

I've been playing FFXIV for slightly over a year now. I came here from another MMO, of the F2P variety, that I'd played for over a decade - sadly, said game mutated into a FOMO-fueled, loot-box dependent, mess. It didn't help matters that powercreep ruined the gameplay, and the content drops became more and more infrequent and, last I recall, it was only receiving one or two new episodes (each worth about 30 - 40 minutes play time) roughly every four or five months. The Devs all but admitted that their priority was producing loot boxes and cash-shop bundles (£200) over all else.

My answer to my distaste of that game's business model? I quit playing it.

Do I visit that game's official forum to submit posts expressing my displeasure at what happened to the game? No, I don't. I'll admit, I do sometimes post on that game's Reddit page to antagonize the White Knights who, despite everything, think the game can do no wrong but otherwise? I moved on.
And I can't help but wonder whether the OP should perhaps do the same?

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This post is interesting to me, because I also came from a similar game, and before I gave up on it I definitely submitted forum feedback on the direction of the game because I wanted to at least try and get my thoughts out there. Even as the game slipped over a cliff and became a trash pile, the "War" on the forums raged on, with the same 4 or 5 people swearing up and down that the game was fine "in their opinion" and that anyone saying otherwise should just quit the game. We had a thumbs down option there, and I got a lot of them for just criticizing the way the devs did things and warning that if they kept it up, the people who actually played their game would get fed up and leave. In the end, a lot of people quit the game until it finally died. The game was tera, if you're curious. Its entire wikipedia article is in the past tense now, because they pulled the plug on it.

Anyway, when it became clear that the devs weren't even reading the forums, that was when I stopped trying to submit feedback and finally gave up on things. I don't think XIV is in a doom and gloom place at the moment, but when I see things like "item people want being sold in the cash shop during a content lull," or "job homogenization on a massive scale" or "general sense that only the 'home' community is being listened to first and foremost, while other foreign players are listened to second," or "devs stop replying to forum posts," then my red flags start popping up. And those flags are born from years and years of playing now defunct korean mmos that started great, went down this road, and then either shut down or lost so many players that they're irrelevant now. I don't want that to happen to this game, so when I have a concern I'll raise it every time, because I like this game and don't want to see it turn into abandoned trash. That said, I have a hard time believing it matters; I still haven't seen any indication that the devteam reads the english forums. But it's all we have and it's arguably our best shot for submitting feedback. But that, I think, is the difference between aveyond's situation and yours. In your situation, the game was already in a hopeless state. Aveyond and people like him don't see the situation as lost yet, so they continue to submit feedback and return to the game in the hope that things have gotten better.

Broadly speaking now, aveyond threads are always deeply ironic affairs because a lot of the replies to his criticism will accuse him of being stubborn and unwilling to accept other people's subjective opinions. And then in the very same breath they'll tell him to leave the forums forever because his opinions on the game don't line up with theirs. It's stunning. More of you would benefit from rereading your posts before you submit them. Or better yet, don't reread them; it's a lot funnier this way.

I 100% prefer everything in shadowbringers but I don't think they can always write something as good as that (I know some people will like another FF14 Story expansion story better), I felt a bit underwhelmed by Endwalker, that being said I still somewhat enjoyed Endwalker in general it had really high moments.

With the 6.1-6.3 I've actually been liking it more then the main Endwalker plot (6.0) generally, I feel like it's actually going into a Interesting direction, I personally don't see how it's "going down hill" but others might? I mean we've had A realm reborn and Stormblood which can be considered writing "low points", while I actually think Sormblood was decent people will have differing opinions on what they like, I know a lot of my friends who I've played the game with and talked about the game actually like the recent story.

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

Psst.

Pssst.

Dattebayo.

https://media.tenor.com/XsPZbAKWly4A...ruto-anime.gif

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Oh by the Twelve you had to bring up the perfect reason I hated Naruto.

Love this game enjoyed the story. But the game has issues that need solving that cant be denied, I personally dont consider story issues a high priorty but that's me. *shrugs*

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

I 100% prefer everything in shadowbringers but I don't think they can always write something as good as that (I know some people will like another FF14 Story expansion story better), I felt a bit underwhelmed by Endwalker, that being said I still somewhat enjoyed Endwalker in general it had really high moments.

With the 6.1-6.3 I've actually been liking it more then the main Endwalker plot (6.0) generally, I feel like it's actually going into a Interesting direction, I personally don't see how it's "going down hill" but others might? I mean we've had A realm reborn and Stormblood which can be considered writing "low points", while I actually think Sormblood was decent people will have differing opinions on what they like, I know a lot of my friends who I've played the game with and talked about the game actually like the recent story.

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This is a mmo after all so the story is going to be like a rollercoaster up and down, up and down, then a sudden sharp turn or inverted loop.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Its currently considered as the worst patch in FFXIV's history.

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A brief adventure in Garlean territory and getting to know two very interesting new characters better sure beats shoveling chocobo shit. You whiners have lost your minds. There is a long echo chamber thread to contain all 5 of you that way -->

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

I 100% prefer everything in shadowbringers but I don't think they can always write something as good as that (I know some people will like another FF14 Story expansion story better), I felt a bit underwhelmed by Endwalker, that being said I still somewhat enjoyed Endwalker in general it had really high moments.

With the 6.1-6.3 I've actually been liking it more then the main Endwalker plot (6.0) generally, I feel like it's actually going into a Interesting direction, I personally don't see how it's "going down hill" but others might? I mean we've had A realm reborn and Stormblood which can be considered writing "low points", while I actually think Sormblood was decent people will have differing opinions on what they like, I know a lot of my friends who I've played the game with and talked about the game actually like the recent story.

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I'll definitely take Golbez the FFXIV version of the Jailer over Meteion and Hermes any day, at least. No previous expansion story to date has tried and failed to get the point across the way Endwalker did with its botched attempt at philosophical messaging and retroactively damaging the game's foundational lore.

At any rate - I do not believe there is a single EW enjoyer who would really lose out if 7.0 sees us return to the style of Heavensward with a fresh cast that has flaws/growth and yes even death so as to tell a mature enough story without the need for excessive padding with slice of life nonsense and fluff. The Scions had 10 years to make the case for themselves sticking around and although Shb started to make them somewhat tolerable, an entire expansion in EW of stagnant or in some case backwards growth just shows me that they really cannot be salvaged.

Better to have the Ysayles of the game die before they live long enough to become Y'shtolas.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

Hot damn dude, while there are time and place where I can understand people need vindication, but I'm pretty sure a video game should never be one of those.

The majority of your posts seem to be:

- Project yourself as the speaker of majority.
- Casting yourself as some kind of messiah saving the game from the impending doom.
- Acting as if you're doing people a favor.


Like, it's not uncommon for the usual complainers somehow project the game will fail (when it isn't) unless the game does what they want, but you're just taking it to several other levels. At this point I feel it's not really about the game anymore, you're just desperately seeking validation.


Btw, I'm also here since near the beginning of 2.0 and still be happy with the game in general. Sometime you just have to acknowledge it ain't the honeymoon period, people just found a good match. You're striking me as someone who getting angry that people are getting along but not in the way you imagine it has to be. Which is again, seem like a self-esteem and validiation issue.


In fact at this point I hope you're simply trolling and just trying to get a reaction out of people. 'Cause hey, it's the internet, some people do that for fun. Because if you're actually serious about everything you type ... then I'm worried about you on a mental-wellness level.

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He's dead serious about his views. Hopefully he doesn't go on for months like the last time.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I'll definitely take Golbez the FFXIV version of the Jailer over Meteion and Hermes any day, at least. No previous expansion story to date has tried and failed to get the point across the way Endwalker did with its botched attempt at philosophical messaging and retroactively damaging the game's foundational lore.

At any rate - I do not believe there is a single EW enjoyer who would really lose out if 7.0 sees us return to the style of Heavensward with a fresh cast that has flaws/growth and yes even death so as to tell a mature enough story without the need for excessive padding with slice of life nonsense and fluff. The Scions had 10 years to make the case for themselves sticking around and although Shb started to make them somewhat tolerable, an entire expansion in EW of stagnant or in some case backwards growth just shows me that they really cannot be salvaged.

Better to have the Ysayles of the game die before they live long enough to become Y'shtolas.

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Did EW fail to get it's messages across or did said messages simply not land with YOU the individual. Cause I can personally say EW hit me on levels no other game has and helped me overcome things going on in my life. Was there some lore changes, sure but thats going to happen to any game which a story so long. Things made years ago are made under a different mindset with a different regard for the future.

Personally with EW going as bad as you so claim, I'd like to see what your perfect script of EW would be. I know one thing you'd have killed off any character you don't like (scions) so that's a bit you can leave out.

Oh yeah I have to ask what's with the character death fetish. You speak of growth n trouble yet the only example given is death. Zero is quite literally what you're asking for in a character but maybe it's because she's not what you'd call a hot woman that she doesn't fit the bill? I remember you saying something like that before. I've seen more growth in game with the Scions than I've ever seen from you here in over a year. You're the same person saying the same things, doing the same things, ignoring the same people.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

And this is exactly why people like me need to speak out against people like this. You're still in a honeymoon phase with this game and can't see it's decline. I've been here since day 1 of ARR. I can. And I refuse to let you and the other people who can't see how the story went from bad in EW to worse in the patches along with the continued degradation of combat gameplay tell me that I can't speak my mind or that doing so is wrong.

But then again I seem to remember someone similar telling me that "picking up mercenary party members isn't realistic" (only for the next patch to pick up Zero by way of a Crystal gizmo we just magically happened to have picked up moments before) or that "the WoL is still relearning how to trust food" so I'm not about to consult some of the people on here for their opinion on what constitutes the calibre of story FFXIV deserves.

Never before has it been so easy to tell who here has actually been consuming other media apart from this game and who hasn't. It was the Bloody Banquet and stuff in that vein that got me to take this game seriously. Not some Deviantart OC ripping a bun in half.

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No reason to be so judgemental there. A year is perfectly long enough to develop an informed opinion on the game. The fact you have been playing longer does not give you superiority on this subject, especially given that art is subjective. There are plenty of other ARR veterans (Like me!) who do disagree with you and are still enjoying the story, lore and games direction even if its not always perfect. Are we all blind ‘white knights’ simply because we have different tastes on this one matter? No one can pass judgement on the current story state and call it fact. You feel in love with the game via the ARR patches? Great! I think thats when the game really made a mark on me too, but it would be dull if every storyline was like that. One of the joys of the game is that we can explore the lore and story in different ways. We can have epic battles across the stars, political intrigue, examinations on colonialism, small human moments that involve bonding with others via sharing food and have a half-naked buff guy chase his detective son around the moon! That diversity is wonderful and one of the reasons why I adore this world.

Not everything will hit the mark sure, but the game is not dead if a story or character arc feels wrong. We have had what I would call dull patches before, and we will have them again. Tis the nature of storytelling, and more so in a MMO. If people dislike that the current stuff then I hope they find the future expansion more enjoyable. I have little doubt it will be a different type of adventure at the very least!

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No previous expansion story to date has tried and failed to get the point across the way Endwalker did with its botched attempt at philosophical messaging and retroactively damaging the game's foundational lore.

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In your opinion, which, given past events, amounts to very little.

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At any rate - I do not believe there is a single EW enjoyer who would really lose out if 7.0 sees us return to the style of Heavensward with a fresh cast that has flaws/growth and yes even death so as to tell a mature enough story without the need for excessive padding with slice of life nonsense and fluff.

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You do not have any idea what i want and dont want, what I like and dont like, so kindly do me the courtesy of not assuming otherwise. DO NOT PRESUME to even try to speak for me..you do NOT.

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The Scions had 10 years to make the case for themselves sticking around and although Shb started to make them somewhat tolerable, an entire expansion in EW of stagnant or in some case backwards growth just shows me that they really cannot be salvaged.

Better to have the Ysayles of the game die before they live long enough to become Y'shtolas.

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Your opinion has been duly noted, logged and disposed of as is appropriate. I happen to love Yshtola's character. Urianger as well. Thancred, for all his flaws, has grown greatly in the interim.

I also note that you have not ( yet again ), answered my questions posted earlier.

Y'see Aveyond, I have been gaming a VERY long time. Decades. I have been privileged to sit in on a writers conference for an in developement MMO ( as has been said on the STRICT proviso that I didnt open my yap once OR ELSE since I had been permitted to do as a VERY special favour ), I have listened in on podcasts run by a pair of people I doubt you have even heard of..Ken and Roberta Williams..I have again had the privilege of talking to and listening to a man named Al Lowe...those names should be familiar to anyone who knows gaming.

They founded a company called Coarsegold...which is known these days as a gaming giant by the name of Sierra Vivendi. What I learned in that time is a scant fraction of a fraction of one percent on how games writing works...but heres the difference between us.

I dont claim to be an expert on what gaming writing should be, or what others may want. You, on the other hand, seem to be under this delusion that "you know whats best for us all"

The sheer arrogance of that attitude beggars the imagination.

Considering this is the man who took a joke and started policing what Summoners should have in terms of summons, I'm sorry to say that whatever screws Aveyond had have officially come loose.

Here lies Aveyond's legacy. May it be memeworthy.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Considering this is the man who took a joke and started policing what Summoners should have in terms of summons, I'm sorry to say that whatever screws Aveyond had have officially come loose.

Here lies Aveyond's legacy. May it be memeworthy.

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Was this supposed to be some kind of dig? I'm absolutely going to push back against people who want to summon the Twelve especially after what I learned about them from this raid.

A lack of gatekeeping for the class in general led to a subset of Warlocks mistakenly believing that the class was more theirs than of those of us who actually wanted to play an FF Summoner and were shocked to discover that 6.0 at least gave us an ARR level 50 Summoner like we should've gotten in 2013 if not the level 90 one replete with the classic Final Fantasy Pantheon, among other things.

I do not trust the current battle team to give us more than 3 new summons next expansion, if even that. Better them to be Shiva, Ramuh, and Leviathan than Hydaelyn's conspirators. Perhaps if we had gotten these, along with Alexander, etc. ages ago I might have been more amenable to your request. But as it stands now? The last thing I want to see on SMN is anything to with them.

There was no way to tell your post was serious or not anyway, but my position is as unchanging as ever. Though I will absolutely throw my support behind those same Warlocks who would see Bio and Miasma brought back over anything Twelve and Hydaelyn related. Of that be assured.

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Warlocks

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in FF 14?

Oh and I want to see MORE on Venat's backstory, the hints about her and the Twelve are..fascinating.

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I'm absolutely going to push back against people who want to summon the Twelve especially after what I learned about them from this raid.

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Ive got to ask.

Is there anything in this game you DONT hate?

^

To be fair, the Twelve aren't Primals. It would make more sense if the Twelve were made into "summons" on a completely different Job class than Summoner.

I'm just hoping we get Leviathan, Ramuh, Shiva, Odin and possibly even King Moggle Mog next expansion for Summoner, personally, since it seems like it'll be quite some time before we possibly get a fully realized Summoner with all the primals and elder primals accessible as Egi and Demi Egi considering it took the devs this long just to give us a fully functioning traditional Summoner, while still only having access to three Egi and two Demi Egi.

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To be fair, the Twelve aren't Primals

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Which, had our "esteemed" colleague up there paid attention to the MSQ and ingame narrative, he would have already known

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Originally Posted by Soge01

^

To be fair, the Twelve aren't Primals. It would make more sense if the Twelve were made into "summons" on a completely different Job class than Summoner.

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Hmm... you know I really like that idea. A Job based on the Twelve, perhaps a healer/support DPS who uses Astro-like blessings to buff others and Summoner-like skills to smite their foes?

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I'm just hoping we get Leviathan, Ramuh, Shiva, Odin and possibly even King Moggle Mog next expansion for Summoner, personally, since it seems like it'll be quite some time before we possibly get a fully realized Summoner with all the primals and elder primals accessible as Egi and Demi Egi considering it took the devs this long just to give us a fully functioning traditional Summoner, while still only having access to three Egi and two Demi Egi.

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I do hope we get that in the future, I really do. But then I have seen people asking for that since the 2.x patches so... I dunno if we ever will. Hopefully the 6.0 rework means they will be able to more freely add the other Primals, even if its only cosmetic.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Which, had our "esteemed" colleague up there paid attention to the MSQ and ingame narrative, he would have already known

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Though he doesn't outright say it, Avenyond does seem like he's aware the Twelve aren't Primals. Hence why he's pushing back on the idea of them becoming summons for Summoner in the first place.

Although... there is a version of the Twelve that are Primals~ I completely forgot about them, but the Twelve Luwibaton summons in order to try and seal Bahamut could be turned into summons for Summoner. Though basically relegated to defensive magick, such as casting party wide defensive boosts or upgrading our Carbuncle shield to allow for a more robust personal shield ability.

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Originally Posted by Hurlstone

Hmm... you know I really like that idea. A Job based on the Twelve, perhaps a healer/support DPS who uses Astro-like blessings to buff others and Summoner-like skills to smite their foes?



I do hope we get that in the future, I really do. But then I have seen people asking for that since the 2.x patches so... I dunno if we ever will. Hopefully the 6.0 rework means they will be able to more freely add the other Primals, even if its only cosmetic.

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That would be neat! Our teacher could be the Twelve themselves and they each could teach us how to use a small portion of their power in order to protect the realm with their assistance without them not having to break their own rules and get personally involved. :3

Yeah, its a long shot. But then again, the devs have shocked us before. The new Summoner is a perfect example of that, so at least there's a small possibility they could pull that off at some point. Especially with, as you said, the 7.0 reworks possibly making jobs easier to better tinker around with without so much spaghetti code getting in the way. Though, I really hope the new summons later on will be more than a cosmetic update. That'd honestly would be disappointing. :(

I'm leaning into the reason why the Twelve are suddenly pushing for this "dream" of their's to be fulfilled is because "enduring by the will of the star" implies they can't persist forever without Hydaelyn. Plus there was the whole initial tagline suggesting we'd learn both how they begin and end in the pre-release material.

Such a development would ultimately be something that is perfectly okay being sequestered in optional content because even if they're gone, the faiths they spawned will persist and continue to influence humanity, and even if their absence ends up having a negative effect on the world somehow, there's numerous implications things are going to go sideways outside of Myths.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

And this is exactly why people like me need to speak out against people like this. You're still in a honeymoon phase with this game and can't see it's decline. I've been here since day 1 of ARR. I can. And I refuse to let you and the other people who can't see how the story went from bad in EW to worse in the patches along with the continued degradation of combat gameplay tell me that I can't speak my mind or that doing so is wrong.

FFXIV needs to be better than what it is now. For everyone's sake. Goodness knows that you only stand to benefit from that. You lose nothing from having more long-lived and better designed content and a story written for the intended audience as opposed to a crowd that I struggle to size up. There have been instances where people are so inexplicably attached to the Scions that I genuinely do not know if these types could even sit through the last Harry Potter movies where they ramped up the stakes and the protagonist side took some serious losses.

But then again I seem to remember someone similar telling me that "picking up mercenary party members isn't realistic" (only for the next patch to pick up Zero by way of a Crystal gizmo we just magically happened to have picked up moments before) or that "the WoL is still relearning how to trust food" so I'm not about to consult some of the people on here for their opinion on what constitutes the calibre of story FFXIV deserves.

Never before has it been so easy to tell who here has actually been consuming other media apart from this game and who hasn't. It was the Bloody Banquet and stuff in that vein that got me to take this game seriously. Not some Deviantart OC ripping a bun in half.

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And I've played since 1.0 alpha. Story's fine.

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And I refuse to let you and the other people who can't see how the story went from bad in EW to worse in the patches

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I was not aware I had any obligation to listen to a single word you say. To be bluntly honest, thats my call. Not yours. The story is fine and I have enjoyed it.

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Originally Posted by yoshikwalla

And I've played since 1.0 alpha. Story's fine.

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Originally Posted by Hurlstone

The fact you have been playing longer does not give you superiority on this subject, especially given that art is subjective.

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It goes both ways, you know.

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Originally Posted by weebtext

It goes both ways, you know.

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In matters of taste, the customer is always right.

As a corollary, arguing about taste is usually an exercise in futility—everyone's taste is different, and going "You don't like thing? But I like thing! Fuck you!" or "You like thing? But I hate thing! Fuck you!" over and over is just... well, if this is what folks like doing, who am I to complain?

There is not a Single Person here (to my Knowledge) that has ever made the claim that FFXIV is Perfect, and without Flaws.
FFXIV can ALWAYS stand to see improvements, and in fact could use some. Never be afraid to give your thoughts and opinions, regardless if it is popular or not.
The issue is OP has this thing that he thinks he is right and we all have to agree with him. Not going to happen, we are all individuals with different perspectives and takes. What we like, you might hate. What you think is good, some of us may think is Trash.

At the end of the day, the game is still thriving. Servers are still full and people are logging in and enjoying the content.
Cant predict the future, but maybe later things might better appeal to you...Or might turn other people off.

Finally got around to doing the story for the patch. It was....alright. No big shake-ups, just two more fiends down. We'll probably finish off Golbez in 6.4, then 6.5 will start the setup for 7.0. It's a filler arc, I wasn't expecting much anyway.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

There is not a Single Person here (to my Knowledge) that has ever made the claim that FFXIV is Perfect, and without Flaws.
FFXIV can ALWAYS stand to see improvements, and in fact could use some. Never be afraid to give your thoughts and opinions, regardless if it is popular or not.
The issue is OP has this thing that he thinks he is right and we all have to agree with him. Not going to happen, we are all individuals with different perspectives and takes. What we like, you might hate. What you think is good, some of us may think is Trash.

At the end of the day, the game is still thriving. Servers are still full and people are logging in and enjoying the content.
Cant predict the future, but maybe later things might better appeal to you...Or might turn other people off.

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Nah you don't understand, if someone defends a singular point or perspective on the game, then the only logical conclusion is that they must think the entire game is flawless and perfect.

The past few patches felt like filler arc, I think this is good thing. We just came from a long storyline that took years to resolve. A filler arc until 6.5 is not a bad thing.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

At any rate - I do not believe there is a single EW enjoyer who would really lose out if 7.0 sees us return to the style of Heavensward with a fresh cast that has flaws/growth and yes even death so as to tell a mature enough story without the need for excessive padding with slice of life nonsense and fluff.

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Here I am one of them who enjoyed EW and would not want to go back to a Heavensward styled expansion. (Not as if that expansion was the definition of dark anyway) I would not want to lose out the fluff and slice of life "nonsense" because that is something which makes the darker parts of a story hit harder. If everything is always just grim dark than the grim dark loses its meaning. Its the nice scenes, the scenes of friends sitting together, enjoying life that makes a tragedy more tragic.

Bascially you want a story that is far away even from real life. Because even in the darkest times, even in war...where its like the end of the world for the people being in the warzone, they find joy in it. That what makes us human. A teenager sitting at a piano playing songs while the people listening are dancing and clapping, always in danger that the next attack will hit them. A little girl sitting in a bunker singing a frozen song. This "nonsense" you speak about is a big part of our humanity. Taking it out of the story is the sign of a bad writer imo!