Online Store is Getting Worse!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Considering you are the person who said that island was long lasting content and repeatable by "changing the places of the landmarks and swapping their spot", this post is not a surprise in any way.

Compare the store glams and in game glams and tell me the quality of the in game ones are anywhere near the shop ones.

---

What are you even talking about? Are you really trying to compare shop glams to raid gear, dungeon gear, etc.?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deveryn

What are you even talking about? Are you really trying to compare shop glams to raid gear, dungeon gear, etc.?

---

I am comparing all the in game looks agaisnt all of the shop ones, and yes, the shop ones are vastly superior and of higher quality, if you deny that, I have no idea what to tell you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

I am comparing all the in game looks agaisnt all of the shop ones, and yes, the shop ones are vastly superior and of higher quality, if you deny that, I have no idea what to tell you.

---

Yeah. You have no idea alright. ;)

Heh, first world problems.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Compare the store glams and in game glams and tell me the quality of the in game ones is anywhere near the shop ones.

---

That honestly depends. Are we talking about the general quality of game items vs store items, or personal preference on specific/popularly worn items from the store vs stuff given to us in the game?

Because if it's the latter, then some items like the Palaka set, Skalla set or the Neo-Ishgardian set at least look somewhat good for an adventurer style, while other stuff in the cash shop look awkward. Especially against stuff from the Chinese/Korean stores, which aren't made by Square and don't have the same care for quality. The reception at the time of the white and black gowns with the angel wings was that the wings looked like they were made of cardboard. And, well, this is keeping in mind that it's subjective anyway.
And it really hinges on the players wearing it. There's always someone who would wear something, no matter how ugly we think it is. I personally find the Bonewicca casting gear absolutely gross on large bodies, but some people will still wear them. Same as the Faerie Tale dress, that looks way too bad. Beauty in the eye of the beholder and all that.

If it's the former, well... Generally speaking the store does have more diverse and "cooler" stuff than the game, which all look rather standardized. At least across the roles; sure, there's variety in shape, but the design philosophy for casters is nearly always the same. With a lot of models being reused, so if there are flaws with the original design, odds are we're getting those flaws on clones. Whereas the cash shop tends to go for more "original" designs, so they'll usually try to keep the quality somewhat higher than expected.

Though do keep in mind that the Fat Cat onesie is glitched for Lalafell emotes. That shouldn't really happen, especially not in a store-bought item.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deveryn

Yeah. You have no idea alright. ;)

---

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...58/unknown.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leifei

Heh, first world problems.

---

Dumb meme is dumb.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leifei

Heh, first world problems.

---

Thank you for that input, Michael Cera. (ノ＞▽＜。)ノ ʱªʱªʱª

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Compare the store glams and in game glams and tell me the quality of the in game ones is anywhere near the shop ones.

---

https://fashionninjutsu.files.wordpr...2413.png?w=950

https://64.media.tumblr.com/e6724860...aac4159019.jpg

https://onlinestore-img.finalfantasy...e_m_detail.jpg

https://i0.wp.com/mastermune.com.br/...00%2C450&ssl=1

The quality of the in game ones is anywhere near the shop ones.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deveryn

What are you even talking about? Are you really trying to compare shop glams to raid gear, dungeon gear, etc.?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CidHeiral

The quality of the in game ones is anywhere near the shop ones.

---

So both agree that the cash shop items' prices should be lower because you believe the in-game items' quality is higher. (❁´▽`❁)*✲ﾟ*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CidHeiral

https://fashionninjutsu.files.wordpr...2413.png?w=950

https://64.media.tumblr.com/e6724860...aac4159019.jpg

https://onlinestore-img.finalfantasy...e_m_detail.jpg

https://i0.wp.com/mastermune.com.br/...00%2C450&ssl=1

The quality of the in game ones is anywhere near the shop ones.

---

You're comparing armor to casual wear...
Not a fair comparison.
If you compare casual glamour versus casual glamour, the shop wins against most of the in game stuff.

and one of those is AF which gets quite some stylistic effort put in(effort, but doesn't mean it'll be the Highest of Quality. but they'll make sure it's made as they want)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ameliaw

You're comparing armor to casual wear...
Not a fair comparison.
If you compare casual glamour versus casual glamour, the shop wins against most of the in game stuff.

---

https://fashionninjutsu.files.wordpr...2413.png?w=950

https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/...gNAebYWb7s.png

https://i.imgur.com/pvTdUJC.jpg

https://onlinestore-img.finalfantasy...e_m_detail.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EtC2ZxTU0AAau4E.jpg:large

https://glamours.eorzeacollection.co...1624225662.png

Send me a postcard from wherever you move the goal posts next.

The worst part about the store is how they only let you get event cosmetics once and then relegate them to the cash shop forevermore after. As compared to other MMOs where every time the event comes around again, you get another chance to get the items in-game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rolder50

The worst part about the store is how they only let you get event cosmetics once and then relegate them to the cash shop forevermore after. As compared to other MMOs where every time the event comes around again, you get another chance to get the items in-game.

---

To be fair it doesnt happen with all event cosmetics. We did get a few repeats of some of those events that gave newer people a chance to claim the attire/mounts/minion etc. (Still remember people complaining about them anyway but you cant please nitpickers)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CidHeiral

https://fashionninjutsu.files.wordpr...2413.png?w=950

https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/...gNAebYWb7s.png

https://i.imgur.com/pvTdUJC.jpg

https://onlinestore-img.finalfantasy...e_m_detail.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EtC2ZxTU0AAau4E.jpg:large

https://glamours.eorzeacollection.co...1624225662.png

Send me a postcard from wherever you move the goal posts next.

---

Other than the Nier sets and the urban coat, these are all horrible. The fanny pack shirt being a literal eyesore for me.
Funny that you pick the Socialite set as well, almost no one uses this. Why don't you pick a popular set? lmao.
Remember: I said >MOST<, not all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ameliaw

Other than the Nier sets and the urban coat, these are all horrible. The fanny pack shirt being a literal eyesore for me.
Funny that you pick the Socialite set as well, almost no one uses this. Why don't you pick a popular set? lmao.
Remember: I said >MOST<, not all.

---

They literally picked the worst from the store and said "look the in games ones are better !" even though I personally like the socialite

As someone who frequently purchases primarily outfits (once upon a time fantasias), we can argue what 'looks better', but the actual quality of cash shop items isn't really higher than those found available in-game. I haven't personally counted the amount of casual style outfits or outfit pieces that have been available in-game, but you can still find quite a few through in-game means, or previously through events.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CidHeiral

Send me a postcard from wherever you move the goal posts next.

---

Are you seriously using the e-girl set as an example of something good? Lol. Lmao even.

The Mog station is overpriced, anyone denying that is Casper in White Knight armor at this point.

We are not obligated to buy it though....So there is that.

no. I'm just getting poorer

With inflation as it is, I'm surprised the average price of an item isn't $5,000. ;)

So... The price rose, out of nowhere and you guys are fine with it?

Like last set had an extra piece so while being ridiculously expensive it was "understandable"
This one is back to 5 pieces but kept the higher price.

I can't blame SE for that tbh if they have fans that are willing to spend regardless, I don't think I would stop there. I Wonder by how much it's going to rise next time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DatPotato

So... The price rose, out of nowhere and you guys are fine with it?.

---

A merchant has the right to set the prices to whatever they want within their shop. And then adjust based on sales volume. It’s quite simple, if you can’t afford the expensive Mogstation junk, you aren’t their target customer. Personally, I haven’t bought anything because I’m definitely not their target customer…

And if none of their target bite, sure, they can reduce prices to see what maximizes their sales.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DatPotato

So... The price rose, out of nowhere and you guys are fine with it?

Like last set had an extra piece so while being ridiculously expensive it was "understandable"
This one is back to 5 pieces but kept the higher price.

I can't blame SE for that tbh if they have fans that are willing to spend regardless, I don't think I would stop there. I Wonder by how much it's going to rise next time.

---

It's still 6 pieces, even if the hand slot is attached to the loungewear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mimilu

So both agree that the cash shop items' prices should be lower because you believe the in-game items' quality is higher. (❁´▽`❁)*✲ﾟ*

---

Don't put words in my mouth. I wasn't talking price at all, but I think the cash shop is priced appropriately. I'll still wait before buying outfits to let the novelty wear off and eventually catch that sale. :p Eastern Lord Errant was the one time they got me right away as the BLU stormblood update was around the same time.

They don't slouch on the quality and level of detail for anything. It all comes down to personal preference after that and that's not worth making threads and arguing about.

Looking at the store, it's also worth noting that anything they already made for a character is a few dollars cheaper. They still had to go and make it fit on everyone else.

I think it looks adorable on Hrothgar
I even love the Cottonball tail

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kaynide

A merchant has the right to set the prices to whatever they want within their shop. And then adjust based on sales volume. It’s quite simple, if you can’t afford the expensive Mogstation junk, you aren’t their target customer. Personally, I haven’t bought anything because I’m definitely not their target customer…

And if none of their target bite, sure, they can reduce prices to see what maximizes their sales.

---

That would make sense in a standard marketplace. In this one, Squeenix is the only seller and thus they overcharge because you can't go buy it from anyone else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deveryn

It's still 6 pieces, even if the hand slot is attached to the loungewear.

---

Just to throw some numbers around, we're basically getting each piece for around $3.60 (double it if you really want to be picky about the gloves attached to the hoodie). A quick look on Sketchfab (a site where you can buy and download 3D models) has hoodies (just the shirt) priced for around $4 or more. This is just how much it costs to make the model + the time invested by the modeler. You have to realize that art is NOT CHEAP and you're getting 6 pieces of clothing for $22, not just "an outfit". That's 6 pieces that had to be designed and made by someone and probably took a few hours of their time to fit to all of the bodies afterwards. That is what you're paying for when you drop $22.

If you don't think it's worth it/dont like the clothes aesthetically/art related activities should be free or dirt cheap...that's your right. But at the same time, don't act like they're raising prices to screw people over when $22 for 6 pieces is pretty reasonable. At least from the viewpoint of someone who has made and sold models before.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LianaThorne

Just to throw some numbers around, we're basically getting each piece for around $3.60 (double it if you really want to be picky about the gloves attached to the hoodie). A quick look on Sketchfab (a site where you can buy and download 3D models) has hoodies (just the shirt) priced for around $4 or more. This is just how much it costs to make the model + the time invested by the modeler. You have to realize that art is NOT CHEAP and you're getting 6 pieces of clothing for $22, not just "an outfit". That's 6 pieces that had to be designed and made by someone and probably took a few hours of their time to fit to all of the bodies afterwards. That is what you're paying for when you drop $22.

If you don't think it's worth it/dont like the clothes aesthetically/art related activities should be free or dirt cheap...that's your right. But at the same time, don't act like they're raising prices to screw people over when $22 for 6 pieces is pretty reasonable. At least from the viewpoint of someone who has made and sold models before.

---

If the designers were independent artists selling the stuff themselves that would make more sense but this is a huge company selling what the workers there have produced. There is also no question of supplying materials, it's digital. The supply is infinite.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JamieRose

That would make sense in a standard marketplace. In this one, Squeenix is the only seller and thus they overcharge because you can't go buy it from anyone else.

---

Out of curiosity, what would you price the set at and why? Please refrain from subjective reasoning as well (such as, it's ugly).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JamieRose

That would make sense in a standard marketplace. In this one, Squeenix is the only seller and thus they overcharge because you can't go buy it from anyone else.

---

There's nothing special about SE in that regard: the "standard marketplace" is full of people who are the only original sellers for their product. That's the entire point of patents and copyrights, in fact.

So you can't buy optional items for a SquareEnix game from anyone but SquareEnix: that sounds pretty normal for the game industry. But do they really have a special power to overcharge? No, because you can always go play someone else's game instead.

What they have is a captive market, just like Disney does inside Walt Disney World.
So SE, like Disney, can set the price to anything they like, and you can decide not to buy it, or to not even visit the "amusement park" (as FFXIV has been described by Yoshida-san) if it really bothers you.
It's all standard marketplace behavior ... and SE is nowhere near as bad as Disney.

SE differs from Disney in that the incremental cost of MogStation items is close to zero, whereas the food (for example) at WDW actually costs money to make and serve. So SE has a pretty strong motive to start the product at a high price (because some people don't care much about $22 and love having the latest bling) and then eventually reduce it to, say, $8. Once they sold enough product at $22 to recover the development costs, every $8 sale is nearly $8 in pure profit. Again, standard marketplace behavior - that's why there are bargain bins for DVDs and books, for example. (Last time I checked, BTW, DVDs cost about $3 each to make and distribute).

Also standard is if they don't sell enough product at a high enough price to recover the substantial cost of designing an outfit and then fitting that design to all the different character models, they can lose money on it. That risk is also factored in to the initial and subsequent selling price.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saraide

If the designers were independent artists selling the stuff themselves that would make more sense but this is a huge company selling what the workers there have produced. There is also no question of supplying materials, it's digital. The supply is infinite.

---

Notably, they're paid a wage, not on commission.

Imagine how much the expansions would cost otherwise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saraide

If the designers were independent artists selling the stuff themselves that would make more sense but this is a huge company selling what the workers there have produced. There is also no question of supplying materials, it's digital. The supply is infinite.

---

Yeah, and you're paying for the work they put into it....? Regardless of whether or not it's a huge company that doesn't negate the labor put in by the creator. So to me we're paying for the model itself + the labor they put into making and refitting it.

I feel like this is going to become a debate on the value and price of art which is one I refuse to entertain. Pay your artists. That's all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iyrnthota

Notably, they're paid a wage, not on commission.

---

Are you sure? The rights of creators vary in different countries.

For example, n Japan, employees have a right to "reasonable remuneration" for inventions that wind up owned by their employer; I'm aware of one Japanese inventor, Shuji Nakamura, who won a judgement for 20 billion yen (around $200 million) from the company who employed him at the time of his invention (a blue LED).

Copyright law is totally different, of course, and really really complicated. I'm not sure what rights a salaried employee who designs a copyrightable work (as these outfits probably are) has in them in the US, much less in Japan. And it's not just economic rights; there's "moral rights" as well, such as the right to not have your work destroyed (which can get really awkward when a building that is to be demolished includes a mural). Moral rights are pretty big in Europe if I recall correctly, but I am not a copyright lawyer.

The TL;DR is, unless you are familiar with Japanese copyright law and SE's employment contracts, or unless you get a statement from SE, the creators, or someone else with direct knowledge on the matter, you can't know whether the designers of the Mog Station outfits are getting a royalty or not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silverbane

Are you sure? The rights of creators vary in different countries.

For example, n Japan, employees have a right to "reasonable remuneration" for inventions that wind up owned by their employer; I'm aware of one Japanese inventor, Shuji Nakamura, who won a judgement for 20 billion yen (around $200 million) from the company who employed him at the time of his invention (a blue LED).

Copyright law is totally different, of course, and really really complicated. I'm not sure what rights a salaried employee who designs a copyrightable work (as these outfits probably are) has in them in the US, much less in Japan. And it's not just economic rights; there's "moral rights" as well, such as the right to not have your work destroyed (which can get really awkward when a building that is to be demolished includes a mural). Moral rights are pretty big in Europe if I recall correctly, but I am not a copyright lawyer.

The TL;DR is, unless you are familiar with Japanese copyright law and SE's employment contracts, or unless you get a statement from SE, the creators, or someone else with direct knowledge on the matter, you can't know whether the designers of the Mog Station outfits are getting a royalty or not.

---

I'm sorry, but I find this to just be an absolutely incredible stretch. While obviously you're right we can't "know", I am fully confident that the Mog Station creations are not considered "inventions" of the designers. They will almost certainly be considered regular work.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iyrnthota

I'm sorry, but I find this to just be an absolutely incredible stretch. While obviously you're right we can't "know", I am fully confident that the Mog Station creations are not considered "inventions" of the designers. They will almost certainly be considered regular work.

---

Of course they aren't inventors - that term is used in patent law, not copyright law.

What they are is creators of original art, and employee or no, that gives them rights under international treaties and national copyright laws, and those rights vary from country to country. For example, if there are moral rights to the work of art, in some country those rights cannot be assigned, and therefore always remain with the creator.

As I said, though, copyright law is incredibly complicated: you might be amazed at how many different copyrights may be associated with a single song you hear on the radio, and how many people may own those copyrights. Things like movies and video games, which have small armies of creators contributing art to them, is even more complicated. Complicated enough that only lawyers specializing in copyright law should handle them, IMO.

P.S.: Japan's IP laws are different from the US: that $200 million dollar win by an inventor against his employer that I mentioned would never have happened in the US. That inventor later won the Nobel Prize in Physics BTW.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JamieRose

$22 for the latest set which is a freaking pajama hoodie...

https://c.tenor.com/MkxyfsFij7UAAAAC...mbarrassed.gif

It's never enough for Squeenix. Even during a sale store items are insanely overpriced. I couldn't buy anything this year because the prices are just too damned high for my meager budget. How do they justify these outrageously high prices? How do people justify paying them? $42 dollars for a mount? Who has that kind of money!?

Give us a break, Squeenix. :mad:

---

insert obligatory, it's optional. You don't have gun pointed to your head for your wallet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JamieRose

How do people justify paying them? $42 dollars for a mount? Who has that kind of money!?

---

For me? It's pennies.
I work and have a disposable income.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sotaris

insert obligatory, it's optional. You don't have gun pointed to your head for your wallet.


For me? It's pennies.
I work and have a disposable income.

---

Strictly speaking, the expansions are optional as well, but if they jacked the price to triple the cost for 7.0, I don't think this same argument would fly with a lot of people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JamieRose

That would make sense in a standard marketplace. In this one, Squeenix is the only seller and thus they overcharge because you can't go buy it from anyone else.

---

And it’s also not necessary to own the items; we are talking the Gucci of FFXIV. It’d be different if we were talking items necessary to play. Moreover, a majority of the items simply wouldn’t exist if there wasn’t a cash shop. The devs aren’t going to go out of their way making excess frivolous items for the players out of the kindness of their hearts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iyrnthota

I'm sorry, but I find this to just be an absolutely incredible stretch. While obviously you're right we can't "know", I am fully confident that the Mog Station creations are not considered "inventions" of the designers. They will almost certainly be considered regular work.

---

Japanese law works like that though; another thing you will notice is how Yoshi-P will say that certain devs went out of their way on their own free time to do things like make Doman Mahjong or work on hats for Hrothgar/Viera. This is likely part he’s happy they are devoted and part a “we are definitely not pushing our workers to do free overtime work in case someone is sniffing around”.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iyrnthota

Strictly speaking, the expansions are optional as well, but if they jacked the price to triple the cost for 7.0, I don't think this same argument would fly with a lot of people.

---

Probably won’t be 100 euro or more for base edition, so no need to worry.