SE's inability to protect players from stalking/harassment

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Originally Posted by AiUsagi

I do not want this thread to be directed towards MY specific issue.

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There seems to be a misunderstanding here. I meant suggestions priority, not a discussion about your stalker.

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Originally Posted by AiUsagi

I do not want this thread to be directed towards MY specific issue. SE has my information regarding my stalker, and they're really the only ones who need it, aside from maybe, the police.
The point of this thread is to raise awareness and bring up ideas that might be helpful. To ask questions regarding the problems with the blacklist system & to get SE's attention to provide better means of handling online stalking and harassment. I just mentioned it, but again, my stalker can see this thread and comment, as easily as anyone else, and Id really like to keep some actions that Ive taken regarding my stalker, private. If I could, I would call this person, and the other person involved, out by their names, but I cannot for obvious reasons regarding ToS.
I do not care to discuss my stalker, I care to discuss how people can prevent stalking and harassment in the first place.

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That is all well and good. I'm all for trying to figure out ways to solve this issue. However, your specific issue was brought up, meaning that it was inevitably going to be discussed. If you wanted to avoid that bit of attention you might have been better off avoiding bringing it up at all and focusing solely on your mission for change, at least on the forum side of things.

This thread is still relevant today as much as it was one year ago. SE "updated" their policies, but failed to fill any of the loopholes that actually allow for the harassment to end- that being said, harassment between players is likely to go on without help from GM's for as long as SE enables them via the lodestone and player search. I took a break from the game & came back to the same harassment.
Do Better, Square Enix.

Can't say much about stalking in general.

What I can say is don't interact with strangers on the internet. FFXIV is not exempt from this rule; FC's can give you a little insight to that perspective. Everyone having played for a while will understand what I mean.

You don't randomly become a target of harassement unless there's a connection or information revelead to the person in question. I rarely hear about these issues by experience alone.

Don't share sensitive information about yourself. Create a few criterias that have to be met in order for someone to know you. Don't lower your expectations to be part of a group or fit into their clique.

As for OP, I sincerely hope they'll look into this issue. All the best to you.

This is one of the reasons I refuse to play a female character.

I love this game, but there are some VERY creepy people playing it.

I'd advise anyone to read the first 10-12 pages to see how the OP responds to people asking questions and what they (and the people asking questions) consider as stalking before speaking in support of them

however, I do say actual, legitimate harassment can be an issue in this game and SE does not enough to combat this, which sucks a lot

For all those afraid of stalking in a videogame... You're going to be screwed when DC travel is a thing then. Better learn to deal with it now, and just ignore them.

Yeah stalking does happen in this game, some players just be crazy like that. Especially if you're a girl.
Here are some of my suggestions for SE:

• Ability to make lodestone completely private or choose to have the page removed.
• Option to hide your character on FC roster on the lodestone.
• When you unfriend someone, it takes you off the other player's friendlist too.
• Hide your character roster on the forums. Right now, people can go to your forum profile and see all your characters, which makes it easier for people to stalk you. Or give the ability to publicly delete threads on the forum so you don't get tracked down that way.
• Ability to change forum name. Not only because of a stalking problem, but some people regret their choice in forum name lol
• Divorced players cannot teleport to each other anymore.

idk if I'm missing anything else but I think I covered the most important concerns people have. Bro I don't know what's wrong with the ffxiv community sometimes. I've played a good amount of MMOs, but I've never seen so many complaints about stalkers in them like this. I guess it's because some people see ffxiv as a second life, so things get way more intense. Or maybe in other MMOs, it's just easier to not be stalked? I mean, ffxiv does kind of carelessly provide the tools for stalkers to do their stalking.

Think about it, if a stalker wanted to, they can just look you up on lodestone and keep making free trial accounts. And if they follow you around, they have plausible deniability that they were there by coincidence and minding their own business. It's a one sided battle for these girls. It can happen to guys too, but I think realistically it happens to women more. Sometimes it doesn't end at just stalking online, keep that in mind. Another thing to note is that ffxiv is getting really popular with streamers too, so things can't possibly stay the way they are now. Not only will stalking/harassment be a problem for streamers, but possibly their friends/fc mates too.

And I can understand some people thinking things like "are you sure you're being stalked" or "you're just overblowing the situation" or "you're not telling us the full story. if you're being stalked so much, maybe there's a problem with you instead". But some people are just full on psychos. It really do be like that sometimes.

btw I didn't read the comments in this thread. I just think the way things are set up right now like with the lodestone and whatnot, it makes it easier for people to get stalked/harassed. And it seems to me this is a common complaint and a valid one I think.

...Oh wow, someone follows you in a game. Unless they're kill stealing you or trying to talk to you. Why do you care? I must be old or something because I don't see how it affects anyone. They're just another face in the crowd, could be anyone, who cares.

And before you say 'well it's different for girls.' I'm a girl.

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Originally Posted by Nekaru_Infitima

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Yeah we get it, you're #notlikeothergirls. Why do you care if people want better privacy settings? Even if it's just mildly uncomfortable, why should people have to put up with it? They're on the game to have fun, not to be annoyed. And maybe it doesn't bother you, but it can bother other people.

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Originally Posted by Nekaru_Infitima

...Oh wow, someone follows you in a game. Unless they're kill stealing you or trying to talk to you. Why do you care? I must be old or something because I don't see how it affects anyone. They're just another face in the crowd, could be anyone, who cares.

And before you say 'well it's different for girls.' I'm a girl.

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So... many.... mean ... comments... I have typed and then deleted.

They're not just being there. They're following you on multiple characters, likely harassing you with tells/trade requests/emotes. Spreading rumors to your FC or LS, possibly NN. There ARE ways to avoid all this but nobody should need to take the full burden of security on themselves. SE should put in SOME concessions so that if you wish to break a contact link with someone you can. Not removing people from a both friend lists when you unfriend them is .. well.. silly. Senn makes a good point that the harassment can follow you outside the game as well, to the forums, discord servers and anything else linked to your character or FC.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

So... many.... mean ... comments... I have typed and then deleted.

They're not just being there. They're following you on multiple characters, likely harassing you with tells/trade requests/emotes. Spreading rumors to your FC or LS, possibly NN. There ARE ways to avoid all this but nobody should need to take the full burden of security on themselves. SE should put in SOME concessions so that if you wish to break a contact link with someone you can. Not removing people from a both friend lists when you unfriend them is .. well.. silly. Senn makes a good point that the harassment can follow you outside the game as well, to the forums, discord servers and anything else linked to your character or FC.

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Perfectly put. It's not exactly fun when your social life in game is being dragged through the mud because of a vindictive ex for example. Whether people overreact or are oversensitive is irrelevant... There should be privacy options/settings available to people who want them.

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Originally Posted by Nekaru_Infitima

...Oh wow, someone follows you in a game. Unless they're kill stealing you or trying to talk to you. Why do you care? I must be old or something because I don't see how it affects anyone. They're just another face in the crowd, could be anyone, who cares.

And before you say 'well it's different for girls.' I'm a girl.

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I am 100% certain that my harasser is female.
Not only men are creeps- women can be too. That being said, harassment is harassment. Gender makes no difference & neither does whether that harassment is irl or virtual- it still has an effect on people mentally and emotionally, and it can instill a sense of not being safe. Additionally, situations that begin online have been known to go into real life- which is why cyberstalking is no less important than real life stalking/harrassment and should be taken seriously.
This is a social game and should meet social expectations, good or bad. I don't think that just because FFXIV is a game, doesn't mean that harassment shouldn't be taken seriously. Square Enix wouldn't have attempted to place policies to prevent such occurrences if it wasn't something THEY wanted to take seriously- but new policies aren't going to achieve that for them. Square Enix needs to provide players with more options to protect themselves, rather than leave players to feel helpless. Even giving players more privacy options would likely reduce the need for players to contact GMs at all.

at this point I'm convinced nekaru is hamming it up with their recent posts, no one but a troll or someone with a gimmick can make posts like these

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

There ARE ways to avoid all this but nobody should need to take the full burden of security on themselves. SE should put in SOME concessions so that if you wish to break a contact link with someone you can. Not removing people from a both friend lists when you unfriend them is .. well.. silly. Senn makes a good point that the harassment can follow you outside the game as well, to the forums, discord servers and anything else linked to your character or FC.

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It's a shame that online harassment isn't taken more seriously and that these situations often go unchecked until it's too late.

Commenting on this thread until SE stops enabling harassment/stalking.

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Originally Posted by AiUsagi

Commenting on this thread until SE stops enabling harassment/stalking.

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If it is truly stalking and getting to the point of real issues, maybe you should seek out the authorities who can put a stop to it, like courts and a restraining order.

SE can't do much outside ban the various accounts, and if this person isn't legally threatened why would they care to stop?

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Originally Posted by SweetestLily

I never did understand why after you delete people from your friends list, you are still on theirs.

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There have been many many cases over the years in wich people asked why this does not get changed and We actually got a respond to this wich was like: "Players might be shocked if they find out you simply removed them." something around those lines but it is of course no real reason. I had more than one Stalker at some point so i switched servers. Then Servervisit came :D

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Originally Posted by Araxes

There have been many many cases over the years in wich people asked why this does not get changed and We actually got a respond to this wich was like: "Players might be shocked if they find out you simply removed them." something around those lines but it is of course no real reason. I had more than one Stalker at some point so i switched servers. Then Servervisit came :D

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Yeah, I've said in the past on other threads about it - SE's reasoning for why the FL in this game doesn't work like basically any other MMO out there is incredibly shortsighted and stupid. It goes beyond Japanese politeness culture and into the realm of unbelievably naïve. Stalking happens in Japan just like overseas - sometimes even worse than over here - so it isn't like this is an exclusively Western thing that they don't need to care about or take into account. The current way the FL and Lodestone works makes it horrifically easy for stalkers and harassers to follow their victim wherever they want, always know who they're on, always know any name or server changes.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

If it is truly stalking and getting to the point of real issues, maybe you should seek out the authorities who can put a stop to it, like courts and a restraining order.

SE can't do much outside ban the various accounts, and if this person isn't legally threatened why would they care to stop?

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True enough, but SE could still do far more to ensure player protection from cases like these. Options to hide your lodestone page, two-way removal from friends and a better blacklist system, etc. The onus shouldn't solely be on a player to take extra measures outside of the game to ensure it stops.

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

at this point I'm convinced nekaru is hamming it up with their recent posts, no one but a troll or someone with a gimmick can make posts like these

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I think we've established she's someone who never grew out of the edgy #notlikeothergirls 13~16 year old mindset.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

If it is truly stalking and getting to the point of real issues, maybe you should seek out the authorities who can put a stop to it, like courts and a restraining order.

SE can't do much outside ban the various accounts, and if this person isn't legally threatened why would they care to stop?

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I don't want to say much about what I am doing from the irl *legal* perspective, but the fact that I need to even look to irl authorities for help when this could have all been prevented with the right tools ingame, really just speaks for itself about what's wrong with player privacy features in FFXIV. It needs to be fixed.

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Originally Posted by AiUsagi

I don't want to say much about what I am doing from the irl *legal* perspective, but the fact that I need to even look to irl authorities for help when this could have all been prevented with the right tools ingame, really just speaks for itself about what's wrong with player privacy features in FFXIV. It needs to be fixed.

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Right, but I would also look into fixing your own problems as well as the problems of others. If this has been going on long enough and the severity is as major as you claim, then outside intervention may be needed.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Right, but I would also look into fixing your own problems as well as the problems of others. If this has been going on long enough and the severity is as major as you claim, then outside intervention may be needed.

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100% Doing both at the same time. I realize that this is an issue that goes beyond just affecting me tho, which is why I feel it is important to do my best to draw attention to these loopholes to try and fix them for everyone's privacy.

On the very same page as this thread, we have this other thread here. So, I am just genuinely curious here. Is SE too heavy handed in trying prevent harassment, as the OP in that other thread claims, or does SE not do enough to prevent it, as the OP in this thread claims?

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Originally Posted by Lium

On the very same page as this thread, we have this other thread here. So, I am just genuinely curious here. Is SE too heavy handed in trying prevent harassment, as the OP in that other thread claims, or does SE not do enough to prevent it, as the OP in this thread claims?

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Well for starters, one is policy, and what we're discussing here is privacy options. There's nothing heavy handed about giving players the option to privatize their lodestone profile. It's just that, an option.

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Originally Posted by Lium

On the very same page as this thread, we have this other thread here. So, I am just genuinely curious here. Is SE too heavy handed in trying prevent harassment, as the OP in that other thread claims, or does SE not do enough to prevent it, as the OP in this thread claims?

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I don't really see how these are similar. This person doesn't have a problem with harassment, they seem to be complaining about the opposite. Seems like this player is complaining about people "ghosting", which should honestly be left to the discretion of the players. If someone doesn't want to interact with another player anymore, then that should be respected. This guy is just an example of the person whose feelings Yoshi doesn't wanna hurt by removing players from both friends lists. Dude, they're just not into you.

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Originally Posted by Edax

I'm afraid the forums are kaput. I doubt any kind of reform can happen here.

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I mean many people on this forum and r/ffxiv just defends it so I wouldn't count on anything really.

Commenting until SE fixes their privacy issues

Still waiting for SE to remove my stalker from my FC lawn, despite their blatant harassment in their search info & messages they've written in my own message books & friends. GM's are useless.

It would be useful for players to have the ability to blacklist players from the player search, or from their friends list, rather than needing to wait for the person to write or emote in chat.

Additionally, it would be great if players are removed from the blacklisted player's search.

Likewise, players should also have the ability to hide their profile on the lodestone.

It would also be helpful if blacklisted players were not able to write in message books.

Trial accounts that are used for the purpose of harassment should also be looked at more closely and taken seriously.

Whether my harassment continues to go on, or eventually comes to an end; I will continue to advocate for more privacy options to protect players in game. Players have to rely on GMs to bring order to the game, but I believe that by giving gamers more options to protect their privacy, there would be less instances where GMs would need to intervene at all.

So you're going to bump and spam? Pretty sure that's against forum rules.

Just. Deal. With. It.

It's online in a game where all they're doing is being around. They can't do anything else.

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Originally Posted by Nekaru_Infitima

So you're going to bump and spam? Pretty sure that's against forum rules.

Just. Deal. With. It.

It's online in a game where all they're doing is being around. They can't do anything else.

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and create unlimited alt accounts
and follow you from DC to DC due to the never ending lodestone ID, even after namechanges
and lo and behold if you've been friends at one point, you're still on the other person's friendlist if you remove them
SE should stop with the "think of the other person" copout they're propagating whenever it's brought up, it's not exclusively a western issue, stalking is a very big thing in japan too and everything in this game allows it to be done with ease

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Originally Posted by Nekaru_Infitima

So you're going to bump and spam? Pretty sure that's against forum rules.

Just. Deal. With. It.

It's online in a game where all they're doing is being around. They can't do anything else.

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Meanwhile, you give them a free bump because you just have to be 2edgy4me #notlikeothergirls about a very serious matter that has been a consistent problem for years.

GG you played yourself.

Have another bump, Usagi. SE needs to let go of their crappy "think of the other person's feelings!" reasoning. Give people the option to hide their lodestone, two-way remove friends, make the blacklist work better, do something so that it isn't super easy for an unhinged stalker and abuser to make someone's life hell every day they play.

Because it definitely doesn't end up sticking to the game alone - these sorts can and will try to doxx the target of their harassment.

Thank you for those who have shown support and encourage SE to do better. I don't expect everyone to agree with me, and I'm mentally prepared for people like Nekaru.

I will continue to request Square Enix support for changes, regardless of the negativity. I stand by my truth and I would like to see privacy features implemented in game for everyone.

Like I said in one of my previous thread, I've had stalkers who won't take no for an answer. They have enablers who keep perpetuating their behavior, and they keep encouraging these people to keep doing so! Blackilisting someone won't do much because they can make fake accounts and make your in-game experience miserable and painful.

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Originally Posted by Lunalepsy

Like I said in one of my previous thread, I've had stalkers who won't take no for an answer. They have enablers who keep perpetuating their behavior, and they keep encouraging these people to keep doing so! Blackilisting someone won't do much because they can make fake accounts and make your in-game experience miserable and painful.

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People who would harass others have no sense of moral boundaries for themselves or others. Sorry you have had to deal with that, I hope we can get some changes made. :)

Happy Turkey Gobble to those who celebrate this day, and wishing everyone else a pleasant day! Happy Holidays :)

Last time someone stalked me I just used a name change also a race change then made sure to blacklist them and not be in any of there link shells.

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Originally Posted by Edax

I'm afraid the forums are kaput. I doubt any kind of reform can happen here.

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Every gaming forum I've been on in the last 10-15 years has been awful, I wasn't expecting this to be much different even though the in-game community is fantastic.

If harassment is this bad why not just buy and create another account altogether that will pretty much end the harassment, unless your friends rat you out.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

If harassment is this bad why not just buy and create another account altogether that will pretty much end the harassment, unless your friends rat you out.

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Because that's not cheap and will need the person to start over completely, which isn't easy no matter how long or short your playtime already is.