Aggro Icon

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Originally Posted by Wooba

What does keeping track of mileage in your head have to do with recalling which mobs aggro and which don't?

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Because there are people that keep claiming that it should all be done from memory, instead of something that makes your life a little easier.

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Originally Posted by Wooba

The aggro icon itself isn't the issue, it is the mentality people have about it. What is so wrong about it? Is it because it is ugly, or because it is too helpful? Any feature that makes the game easier to play gets large amounts of hate from the Hardcore players. This is true of all games. The reason people hate the Aggro icon (Other than it being ugly as Gary Busey) is the simple fact that Hardcore players don't want the new players to have a luxury they didn't have.

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I think you hit the nail on the head, Wooba. I think there's a lot of misplaced annoyance going on about this because of the 'old man' syndrome (see this thread). Just because we didn't have it back in our day, doesn't mean it isn't a good idea now.

FFXIV needs to move into the future. Evolve or die.

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

Because there are people that keep claiming that it should all be done from memory, instead of something that makes your life a little easier.



I think you hit the nail on the head, Wooba. I think there's a lot of misplaced annoyance going on about this because of the 'old man' syndrome (see this thread). Just because we didn't have it back in our day, doesn't mean it isn't a good idea now.

FFXIV needs to move into the future. Evolve or die.

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The thing is i understand 100% why the aggro icon has been implemented and i still believe it should be switch down to the target.

I think if i was a new MMO player i would enjoy the feeling of 'Oh crap, what was that? Will it kill me?'
Instead of 'Hey! Oh you have a big red star, wont go that way then.'

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

Because there are people that keep claiming that it should all be done from memory, instead of something that makes your life a little easier.



I think you hit the nail on the head, Wooba. I think there's a lot of misplaced annoyance going on about this because of the 'old man' syndrome (see this thread). Just because we didn't have it back in our day, doesn't mean it isn't a good idea now.

FFXIV needs to move into the future. Evolve or die.

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This is not a case of old man syndrome. I would be the first to admit it if it was, because I am a proponent of change, and would usher in a thousand improvements into this game, given the chance. In my opinion, this aggro indicator isn't an improvement. Not for old players, not for new players.

As I've said before, convenience isn't always the best thing. Just because it makes the game easier for new players by telling them which monsters are aggressive, it also deprives new players of many interesting experiences.

I don't want the game to be hard on new players out of maliciousness and spite, I simply don't want to deprive them of the sense of wonder/adventure. Not everyone who plays an MMO plays it to rush through to endgame. Some people like the adventure. The journey is supposed to be as much fun as the destination.

Not knowing what things aggro (usually you can make educated guesses though) is half the fun.

While the aggro indicator is unsightly, that is not the primary reason I dislike it. It's what the indicator stands for which I don't approve of. It strips the game of some of its charm and character, and essentially makes the aggressive mobs into nothing more than that, mobs.

Yoshi said that what this game needed was more peril and danger, and he was absolutely right. The aggro indicator, however, is in direct opposition to that. It makes the world safer... not only safe, but boring.

Not only do the devleopers insist on removing mob behaviours and mannerisms, but now it seems they also want to remove the threat/danger that the agressive mobs pose.

Why have aggressive mobs with talons, teeth, claws and other visible hallmarks of a vicious animal if you're just going to advertise the aggression in another, more overt and unnatural way?

When did MMOs become so mathematical and so soulless?

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

In my opinion, this aggro indicator isn't an improvement. Not for old players, not for new players.

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I'm glad we can agree that it's an opinion. In your opinion it's not necessary. In mine, it is.

For me, new and interesting experiences have more to do with lore, exploring landscapes and dungeons, and the visual appearances of said monsters. I'm more intimidated by fangs, claws and sheer size and seeing something that tells me it's a level 100 boss with skull/crossbones and stay away, will eat you for lunch. The fun part doesn't come from approaching it and seeing if it rips my face off or not. Death =/= fun.

Despite the fact that I haven't played FFXI in four years, it instilled in me a great fear of death due to losing XP and possibly deleveling. I don't like being terrified of the unknown all the time, otherwise I'd go play a game with world PvP.

But everybody has a different playstyle. =)

It's becoming obvious that the only way to make everyone happy on this point is to make it an option. Options are good.

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

It's becoming obvious that the only way to make everyone happy on this point is to make it an option. Options are good.

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I concur. This is a good compromise solution. Are we all agreed?

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

I'm glad we can agree that it's an opinion. In your opinion it's not necessary. In mine, it is.

For me, new and interesting experiences have more to do with lore, exploring landscapes and dungeons, and the visual appearances of said monsters. I'm more intimidated by fangs, claws and sheer size and seeing something that tells me it's a level 100 boss with skull/crossbones and stay away, will eat you for lunch. The fun part doesn't come from approaching it and seeing if it rips my face off or not. Death =/= fun.

Despite the fact that I haven't played FFXI in four years, it instilled in me a great fear of death due to losing XP and possibly deleveling. I don't like being terrified of the unknown all the time, otherwise I'd go play a game with world PvP.

But everybody has a different playstyle. =)

It's becoming obvious that the only way to make everyone happy on this point is to make it an option. Options are good.

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I pity your outlook on things. If you play an MMO to explore landscapes, dungeons, and encounter mobs, then you of all people should be able to appreciate the lack of tact that an aggro indicator has. An aggro indicator is just a convenient and inartistic way of displaying a mobs behaviour. They should strive to take a more artistic and realistic approach to display aggresion: i.e., making the aggressive monsters look ferocious.

Oh wait, what do you know, 99% of them DO look ferocious!

wow... 21 pages....

i dont like the "icon" part about the feature, but i like the feature, couldnt they just make the name of the mob red instead of adding an icon? well it wont kill me or bug me a lot.


not really expecting them to do any asap change to this feature, but would be nice if they tuned it a bit to suit "most" ppl as you cant please all.


i dont see why the walls of texts and the number of pages.

couldnt we have a list in the first post stating how many ppl like vs dislike the feature and want it to be changes or give the ability to turn it off?

Naoki Yoshida stated that he wanted the forums to be a place where players debated issues and features of the game. And I can see the wisdom of that. I am sure that if he wants a poll on a particular subject he'll make one available to us. That's what he's done in the past.

The problem with polls is that if you don't ask the question the right way, or the respondents don't understand the question, you get results that actually are misleading. Take the last question from the first Player Poll for example. 85.2% of players said they would "welcome changes that would drastically alter the game". From reading posts on this and other forums though, the player-base is not nearly as welcoming of change as that poll number indicates. When you actually ask the players to explain what they want drastically changed, exceptions and nuances appear.

That's why it's a good idea to read all 20+ pages. I'm sure that the development team is.

Toggle option .Best solution for all.
/end thread ?

edit; The same would apply to the new targeting system for the controler.
Choices and customization are ALWAYS a good thing.

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Originally Posted by Kyra

Yes I would definatly like to see an option to hide the agro icon.

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yeah i think that would be the best thing to do because both parties win

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

As I've said before, convenience isn't always the best thing.
[...]
While the aggro indicator is unsightly, that is not the primary reason I dislike it. It's what the indicator stands for which I don't approve of. It strips the game of some of its charm and character, and essentially makes the aggressive mobs into nothing more than that, mobs.

Yoshi said that what this game needed was more peril and danger, and he was absolutely right. The aggro indicator, however, is in direct opposition to that. It makes the world safer... not only safe, but boring.
[...]
When did MMOs become so mathematical and so soulless?

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Get out of my head! :P
+1 for that. Absolutely.

I vote yes to the option to turn on-off the agro icon.

Mobs should not have something like a linkshell marking them.

I think it should be something that pops up as you target it. it rewards checking your surroundings before you run head first into an area, and punishes those too lazy to make sure that dragon isn't going to aggro you

Still loving these responces.

Guys what is typically a big turn off for new players? Huge learning curves. And this game used to have one, but is becoming less and less. Video games and mmo espesially shouldn't have huge learning curves, because they are not fun. I would say a toggle option also, but lets just get something straight. MMo communities are not what they are used to be.

Players are getting less helpful, including ffxi. Before if you shouted for help you, you got it. Before if you asked for Linkshell for help, you got it. That is no longer the case.

Getting help in ffxi is like pulling teeth now. I had tons of friends and a good linkshell, but they no longer play. That linkshell because focused on endgame. And when ppl do help, they don't teach.

Like they will say escort you to jeuno, but don't say anything about the mobs that aggro on the way. If they do get rid of this icon, I hope you guys help teach every newbie what aggros. Trial and error is time consuming and frustrating.

just to add SE promised this game will be less time consuming. Sorry but its not lazyness to check or not check a mob. Sometimes you don't see them mob. I can't tell you how many times in the caedavar mire I barely saw the fomor. Or the spider around the couner in the aquducts in COP area. Heck I remember doing a subligar run and ended up getting party killed by the minitor the COP mission boss.

Also consider when they launch new zones and no one knows what aggros. In ffxi if you do the trial and error way party may get wiped and disband calling you a noob. Or if you new to the area and aggro something no one said aggro same thing.

Sorry but in ffxi, waiting 1 or more hours for a party, getting to the camp. Then accidently aggroing a mob and get booted for not knowing is kinda not cool. And happened often in ffxi.

Please stop playing mmo with rose colored glasses and not realizing things like this happen. No one should get punished for not knowing something, or seeing it.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

If they do get rid of this icon, I hope you guys help teach every newbie what aggros. Trial and error is time consuming and frustrating.

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FFXI used to have a Mentor flag that a player could turn on to indicate that they can be approached for questions or to help other players. It may not be a bad idea to bring that over to FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Sorel

FFXI used to have a Mentor flag that a player could turn on to indicate that they can be approached for questions or to help other players. It may not be a bad idea to bring that over to FFXIV.

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That was used as a badge of honor, and no one gets it anymore. I just quit ffxi due to RL issues mixed with the community turning to crap.
No one I knew took that mentor thing seriously only complained about getting ask questions. And this was 5 years ago.
true story
Last time I needed help, I was lvling a low lvl whm and couldn't locate a bronze hammer. I asked my LS if anyone was heading to bastok soon. I got no replies.I waited about an hr and tried asking again.

I still got no replies. So I started to run my lvl 5 whm butt to bastok from Windurst. I ran all the way to south gustemberg and died by aggro I couldn't even see. My hp was in windust so I wasn't getting stuck in selbina as I only had about 800 gil. I asked for a raise or and then someone said "i'm busy". thats it.

that is the norm now in ffxi. I wish I was lying. No one get the mentor flag. No one liked getting questions from ppl with it on. They are too busy getting content done to even be bothered to help anyone.

After I died it took 45 min for me to get a raise. I wouldn't have needed that raise if I actually saw the quadev. And I wouldn't even be in that mess if I got at least a reply to my first asking for help.

Every player is different. Some are more helpful than others. When I see a player struggling with a group of enemies while on the road, I take a few minutes to toss out some healing to them. I consider it a professional courtesy. We are all comrades in arms after all. I also offer free teleports using /say if I need to go anywhere in a hurry. I figure if some of us need to go to the same place, why should we all spend Anima to get there. Just party up and we can all go at a discount. Usually a couple players in the area take me up on the offer.

It's sort of a "Pay It Forward" philosophy. I don't expect it to become widespread. Remember, every player is different .. and I respect that.

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Originally Posted by Sorel

Every player is different. Some are more helpful than others. When I see a player struggling with a group of enemies while on the road, I take a few minutes to toss out some healing to them. I consider it a professional courtesy. We are all comrades in arms after all. I also offer free teleports using /say if I need to go anywhere in a hurry. I figure if some of us need to go to the same place, why should we all spend Anima to get there. Just party up and we can all go at a discount. Usually a couple players in the area take me up on the offer.

It's sort of a "Pay It Forward" philosophy. I don't expect it to become widespread. Remember, every player is different .. and I respect that.

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And more ppl should be like you. :) I get ppl are different, but this isn't the case of being different. This is a "i'm tired of helping newbies, i'm just focusing on end game" mindset. It is slowly killing the ffxi community.
those who just joined ffxi ended up quiting from it too : /

They should placed icon next to difficulty icon when you Target mob. Solve everything.

It ruins the atmosphere!Need mores ideas!

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

And more ppl should be like you. :) I get ppl are different, but this isn't the case of being different. This is a "i'm tired of helping newbies, i'm just focusing on end game" mindset. It is slowly killing the ffxi community.
those who just joined ffxi ended up quiting from it too : /

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Understood, Kilta.

However the case, our conversation is now derailing the main topic of this thread, which is supposed to be about the new Aggressive Icon. So I recommend that you start a new thread on the topic of motivating players to be more helpful and mentoring.

Now we should get back on topic.

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Originally Posted by viion

They should placed icon next to difficulty icon when you Target mob. Solve everything.

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I predict this is exactly what will happen. Great idea.

I miss the beta "aggro monster" notice ;/

When you got near one you'd get a message
"The ??? notices your presence and assumes an aggressive stance!"

You had like 2 seconds to move away or be attacked.

I'm totally against the ugly icon in any shape or form.

Is SE really trying to make this game cater to casuals or retards?

Never thought of SE being the company to spoon feed everything to people thought that was left to blizzard? ><

I mean seriously once you explore and die a few times you know what agros and what dont, its all apart of the game, not just this game any game.

I really don't like this icon, back in early 2009 when i was still highly anticipating this game i was looking forward to not being spoonfed in this mmo and looking to work with sneak, invis and deodorise again. This to me adds so much more. Please remove the icon, or give us the option to turn it off.

forget an option to turn it off they need to just remove it all together

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Originally Posted by Dalmore

Never thought of SE being the company to spoon feed everything to people thought that was left to blizzard? ><

I mean seriously once you explore and die a few times you know what agros and what dont, its all apart of the game, not just this game any game.

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The question is, of course, whether that is an enjoyable part of the gameplay. I don't morally oppose people who like to inflict punishment onto themselves, but it's not nice to assume everyone else is like you. Though the current aggro icon does seem to be a bit intrusive on the plain view, maybe a smaller icon would suffice nicely.

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Originally Posted by Gulkeeva

I miss the beta "aggro monster" notice ;/

When you got near one you'd get a message
"The ??? notices your presence and assumes an aggressive stance!"

You had like 2 seconds to move away or be attacked.

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I loved that. The mob would totally look at you as to say: 'WTF you doing in my face?' then arch its back and breath heavy, then say 'You got 2 seconds bro...'

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Originally Posted by viion

They should placed icon next to difficulty icon when you Target mob. Solve everything.

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Ive been saying it from day 1. Even thinking of making a picture to illustrate and close this damn case.

Maybe a petition with this suggestion?

needs a toggle option.
same with the giant "!" style quest markers over NPC's heads.

We've got 230+ posts. I think a petition might be superfluous.

But whatever floats peoples boats. I won't fight you on it.

You know its times like this where we really need to question the development teams motives on some of the things theyve added. While i do think the increased size of the mobs is cool, why the heck would you want to identify which mobs aggro? better yet, wheres the sense of adventure? Its like oh im walking through coerthas oh man that mob is aggressive cause i can see a big red mark on the screen. I mean this is basically a lil too easy in terms of challenge not to mention it looks incredibly stupid. If youre gonna do something, keep the marks where you can see if its red green yellow orange or blue. that was easy to work with but also you still werent sure if it would attack you or not.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

Still loving these responces.

Guys what is typically a big turn off for new players? Huge learning curves. And this game used to have one, but is becoming less and less. Video games and mmo espesially shouldn't have huge learning curves, because they are not fun. I would say a toggle option also, but lets just get something straight. MMo communities are not what they are used to be.

Players are getting less helpful, including ffxi. Before if you shouted for help you, you got it. Before if you asked for Linkshell for help, you got it. That is no longer the case.

Getting help in ffxi is like pulling teeth now. I had tons of friends and a good linkshell, but they no longer play. That linkshell because focused on endgame. And when ppl do help, they don't teach.

Like they will say escort you to jeuno, but don't say anything about the mobs that aggro on the way. If they do get rid of this icon, I hope you guys help teach every newbie what aggros. Trial and error is time consuming and frustrating.

just to add SE promised this game will be less time consuming. Sorry but its not lazyness to check or not check a mob. Sometimes you don't see them mob. I can't tell you how many times in the caedavar mire I barely saw the fomor. Or the spider around the couner in the aquducts in COP area. Heck I remember doing a subligar run and ended up getting party killed by the minitor the COP mission boss.

Also consider when they launch new zones and no one knows what aggros. In ffxi if you do the trial and error way party may get wiped and disband calling you a noob. Or if you new to the area and aggro something no one said aggro same thing.

Sorry but in ffxi, waiting 1 or more hours for a party, getting to the camp. Then accidently aggroing a mob and get booted for not knowing is kinda not cool. And happened often in ffxi.

Please stop playing mmo with rose colored glasses and not realizing things like this happen. No one should get punished for not knowing something, or seeing it.

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Ok, no offence, but you don't even play this game so...

People in FFXIV won't boot you for aggroing a mob and most agressive monsters can be avoided easily anyway since you don't have to 'zone' them. They are on a short leash and return to their designated position after chasing you for only a few meters.

All of the problems you mentioned, such as steep learning curves and such are not based around FFXIV's lack of an aggro indicator.

And all of the scenarios you mentioned about getting aggroed by some mob don't even have an FFXIV equivalent, and even if they did, there are aetherytes everywhere for a reason. Oh gosh! You might have to run for 2 minutes back to where you originally were and lose zero EXP in the process!

An few extra options under display settings would be cool.

Checkboxes for:

Player Names (Already included)
My Name
Behest Icons
LS Icons
Aggo Icons
Repair Icons
Bazaar Icons

Just customize what you want to see.

It's not a big deal, but allowing customization is sure to make (almost) everyone happy.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

They are on a short leash and return to their designated position after chasing you for only a few meters.

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Its called Yalms lol.. Just add a toggle button.. It has been awhile.. but didnt FF11 have a question mark next to the name of new players?.. indicating them as new to the game? and that was able to be toggled on and off?

I personally am in favor of getting rid of the icon all together but if it has to stay at least put it next to the colored icon that states the difficulty of the mob and not make it that large overly obvious red dot.

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Originally Posted by JakeRoon

needs a toggle option.
same with the giant "!" style quest markers over NPC's heads.

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That's different though, who wants to go around talking to every npc.. or better yet, who has the time to?