Add ilv requirement please in ShB[Dev Request]

Let's deal with the problem one step at a time. Persistently ask for minimum avg ilvl, and THEN ask for min ilvl per piece.

I just started leveling ARC/BRD and, in my opinion, if they're going to add item level requirements to leveling dungeons/trials (assuming they figure out what to do with roulettes), they should focus on the left side (including weapon slot). There just seems to be a lack of accessories at certain levels unless you go the crafted route or you get lucky with dungeon drops. That said, the situation is much better with Stormblood (and maybe Heavensward?) dungeons, since you get guaranteed drops, including accessories. So maybe just for ARR at least.

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Originally Posted by Rosentretter

Sadly more ilvl doesn't mean better player but I'm still up for it, to save us A BIT of trouble.

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"A bit" It's honestly a lot more than a bit. Having an excessively low IL especially in the case of a weaker weapon where you use the other gear to inflate your IL makes doing dungeons a nightmare. Healing for less, Tanks getting hit harder/with less HP and the other DPS that is doing 1/3 the damage you are doing. It makes the whole experience a nightmare because as it stands now, the "leveling" dungeons can be trolled by anyone who just wants to jump in and wear the weakest gear possible and most of the time, if it's a DPS, it's ignored because while the dungeon does take longer, you can still get through it, just means more work for the other DPS.

Everyone that says "noo ilvl restriction are bad" - Play a healer and heal a tank that mostly wears Sastasha Gear in Aurum Vale - then we speak again

I have had plenty of runs with undergeared people, and you can always tell right away when those around you aren't geared.

I have never said anything to anybody, because i feel like if i said something people would look at me like the villain. Like some toxic elitist for calling someone out on their gear.

So i stay shut, but boy is it frustrating to sit there healing this tank non-stop and being unable to dps because every hit half healths them.

Or only being able to do tiny pulls and still having to pop defensives because this healer can't keep me up.

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Originally Posted by Banriikku

Average ilvl is then cheated by many. I see poeple in Orbone, alphascape, and so on with such crappy gear . Sometimes on the rigth and even on the left side are items missing. I dont think SE will even recognizes this as a problem.

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The funny thing is that SE has a min ilvl on the easy faceroll level 70 roulette dungeons and the expert dungeons but the leveling dungeons don't get the same treatment. Its way easier to carry undergeared people through this level 70 stuff than through leveling dungeons.

You will always see some players that will cheat the system but thats not the majority and even if it just helps to get 50% of the, now undergeared, players to wear propper ilvl gear it would be worth it.

Lv.76 will probably be that tipping point where your suite of i400 BiS ends it's life cycle. I'm guessing it'll be i409 crafted.

The concepts of ilvl and average ilvl need to go away because not every piece of gear is created equal despite being the same ilvl. Someone with all 100 left side and all 200 right side is going to be in a much worse position than someone with all 200 left side and 100 right side even though their average ilvls will be close to the same (not including weapon 145 and 154 respectively). NQ versus HQ further increases the potential difference in performance.

Instead set a minimum for primary stat by job/role. Throwing numbers out for the sake of example (have no idea how close they are to the real thing): if a full set of NQ level 64 caster DPS gear would have 1500 base INT, then require the player have to 1200 INT to queue for a level 64/65 dungeon (or 80% of what would be normal for the level). That leaves room for the player to have a few pieces of gear they're still working on replacing through MSQ or other sources.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

The concepts of ilvl and average ilvl need to go away because not every piece of gear is created equal despite being the same ilvl. Someone with all 100 left side and all 200 right side is going to be in a much worse position than someone with all 200 left side and 100 right side even though their average ilvls will be close to the same (not including weapon 145 and 154 respectively). NQ versus HQ further increases the potential difference in performance.

Instead set a minimum for primary stat by job/role. Throwing numbers out for the sake of example (have no idea how close they are to the real thing): if a full set of NQ level 64 caster DPS gear would have 1500 base INT, then require the player have to 1200 INT to queue for a level 64/65 dungeon (or 80% of what would be normal for the level). That leaves room for the player to have a few pieces of gear they're still working on replacing through MSQ or other sources.

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This is good idea imo, as long as a minimum amount of defence is also added as a required stat.

I totally agree with OP, but I also would like to add my own two cents. The maze of tomestone vendors, wondrous sundries, and upgrade items is unreasonably complex for people trying to rush to end game. There are a lot of new players who aren't going to be aware of how to get poetics, or how to upgrade the right gear, because unless you've been in FFXIV the entire time, riding the community wave, the upgrade system and the vendors are confusing and disorganized.

Yes, it's easy enough to learn it, and easy enough to ask for help, but you shouldn't have to have a tutorial to pick up current gear from a vendor and upgrade it. It's going to be funny when new players join during Shadowbringers and have to tromp their way through Rhalgr's Reach's maze of upgrades. I still sometimes forget which desk to go to in order to find what. It's really needlessly confusing, with badly labelled sections. A newbie would never guess "Wondrous Sundries" contains a bunch of upgrade items. It sounds like it contains crafting items.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

I totally agree with OP, but I also would like to add my own two cents. The maze of tomestone vendors, wondrous sundries, and upgrade items is unreasonably complex for people trying to rush to end game. There are a lot of new players who aren't going to be aware of how to get poetics, or how to upgrade the right gear, because unless you've been in FFXIV the entire time, riding the community wave, the upgrade system and the vendors are confusing and disorganized.

Yes, it's easy enough to learn it, and easy enough to ask for help, but you shouldn't have to have a tutorial to pick up current gear from a vendor and upgrade it. It's going to be funny when new players join during Shadowbringers and have to tromp their way through Rhalgr's Reach's maze of upgrades. I still sometimes forget which desk to go to in order to find what. It's really needlessly confusing, with badly labelled sections. A newbie would never guess "Wondrous Sundries" contains a bunch of upgrade items. It sounds like it contains crafting items.

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Yea current end game mapping can be all over the place, its not as bad for previous levels of end game as the msq now gives gear that would see them able to finish the expansion's story but anything extra like WT does get passed off same with 24 mans and the proto ultima quest is really handy but often overlooked.

I do really hope this request can get passed to the devs any sort of mitigation on the dungeons would help immensely for both current and new players, these dungeons are tuned way way higher than what the minimum is allowed, i do not know if this is a problem in JP data centers but it is a problem in NA and EU that i would like to see them look into

One of the first MSQ quests will stop you from continue if your gear isn't good, so it will be not a surprise if we can get this check on any dungeon.

But, one important thing is, the check must be performed when:
- you queue a duty/roulette (all duties with IL>your one will be excluded from roulette [will be funny have people lamenting they only go sastasha...])
- you confirm participation (cannot confirm if gear doesn't pass)
- into the duty itself (cannot trollchange your weapon/gear/accessories when into the duty)

And all the above NOT apply when you go undersized/premade.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

One of the first MSQ quests will stop you from continue if your gear isn't good, so it will be not a surprise if we can get this check on any dungeon.

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The quest you are talking about is a pushover since the starting gear is already high enough and only a head is missing to get over this quest.
I don't think anyone nowadays listens to his speak about how impotant gear is.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

The maze of tomestone vendors, wondrous sundries, and upgrade items is unreasonably complex for people trying to rush to end game.

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Ehhh. This kinda mostly applies to players already at level cap, and therefore thread topic doesn't really apply. Preeetttyyy sure new players can stroll right into Mor Dhona at any time and get their Ironworks. Augmenting it may be a confusing step, but i120 isn't too hard to stumble upon. Kinda the same with Idyllshire. Once you get there, the big obvious prominent main building (conveniently named/run by someone players should be familiar with from previous) isn't too hard to navigate for their Shire gear. Again, augmenting might take some hunting down, but it's a good start.

SB is the first instance of those end game shops not even being available until you've finished the base story quests. And sure, all the various types of gear all scattered 'round will likely be confusing, where to start, where to start. But, again, that's kinda beyond the scope of the thread. By the time the player has reached that point, they've already passed all the content that needed the minimum ilvl.

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Originally Posted by linay

There just seems to be a lack of accessories at certain levels unless you go the crafted route or you get lucky with dungeon drops. That said, the situation is much better with Stormblood (and maybe Heavensward?) dungeons, since you get guaranteed drops, including accessories. So maybe just for ARR at least.

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ARR is just really awkward pacing for gear in general prolly. Especially with optional dungeons often having the best you'll find. I don't even think it's limited to accessories. There's just weird gaps when bits of gear just don't have a new upgrade with each dungeon. Which isn't too unreasonable. It's one thing to have gear sets for the small handful of dungeons each expansion/patch. Full sets for every ARR dungeon is asking a lot. Added bonus of aetherial gear which may or may not be any better than others. Also, ARR has GC gear, which, to the previous point, may not be somewhere players initially expect/think to check for upgrades, and they are, again, not really full sets with awkward leveling.

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

ARR is just really awkward pacing for gear in general prolly. Especially with optional dungeons often having the best you'll find. I don't even think it's limited to accessories. There's just weird gaps when bits of gear just don't have a new upgrade with each dungeon. Which isn't too unreasonable. It's one thing to have gear sets for the small handful of dungeons each expansion/patch. Full sets for every ARR dungeon is asking a lot. Added bonus of aetherial gear which may or may not be any better than others. Also, ARR has GC gear, which, to the previous point, may not be somewhere players initially expect/think to check for upgrades, and they are, again, not really full sets with awkward leveling.

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Yeah, though at least there is a steady supply of left side gears from vendors, not the case with accessories.

Seems been getting an increase in df leveling dungeons with people vastly undergeared or in wrong type of gear again. SE pls just set a min ilv to them and hold the players to some sort of standard pls i'm begging you here

Absolutely agree with this.

iLvl requirements should've been present since the game began existing. With SHB being released it would really be great if ilvl requirements would be added for every dungeon in the game. I had a guy today with Ironworks gear show up in Emanation(Sri Lakshmi)

Start at the last MSQ ilvl req then go up by 5-10 every dungeon... should at least stop particularly bad offenses. At least by the last dungeon of SHB someone should be AT LEAST i385-i410. Since the last MSQ Req is i360 for Ghimlyt, tho I'd argue the last solo-instance kindof prefers i370+

Which assuming the gear flow in SHB remains similar to HW and SB, i400 should be matched/surpassed by lvl 75.

Also, put guaranteed loot in all dgns part of the leveling roulette and make sure weapon is priority loot #1, followed by left side equips, then left.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

Also, put guaranteed loot in all dgns part of the leveling roulette and make sure weapon is priority loot #1, followed by left side equips, then left.

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Agreed. Taking my alt through SB right now. Not a single tank drop in the 61, 63 or 65 dungeons and the guaranteed piece at the end was always jewelry.

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Originally Posted by Brill_

Agreed. Taking my alt through SB right now. Not a single tank drop in the 61, 63 or 65 dungeons and the guaranteed piece at the end was always jewelry.

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The guaranteed drop will eventually give you everything except for weapon if you keep running the same dungeon and keep every gear it gives you. So if you really have bad luck, running each dungeon 10 times at most will guarantee to give you everything, again, except for weapon.

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Originally Posted by linay

The guaranteed drop will eventually give you everything except for weapon if you keep running the same dungeon and keep every gear it gives you. So if you really have bad luck, running each dungeon 10 times at most will guarantee to give you everything, again, except for weapon.

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And bout 2 levels. You could literally level doing nothing but dungeons. I did it on my DRK and PLD.

Bringing this back because we do really need it, ironworks gear should not be allowed to be worn in Norvenalt dungeons

I had a problem late in Heavensward. I was leveling a DRK, using the Leveling Roulette. It placed me in The Aery when my gear was Ironworks (ilvl 120). While I was high enough level to do that dungeon, I was not prepared gearwise. It should never have placed me within that dungeon. They should consider a ilvl restriction, or a ilvl sync so that this problem doesn't happen.

How often does this actually happen though honestly? Ive seen people like that maybe a handful of times in my year plus of playing

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

Dusk Vigil ilv requirement 110 (you get given plenty of poetics up to this point and ilv115 armor in msq no new person will be massively undergeared)

Solm Al ilv requirement 115 (again plenty of gear up to here and stuff not too hard hitting)

The Aery ilv requirement 125 ( stuff starts hitting harder you need to start having better gear)

The Vault ilv requirement 135 (Mandatory to have some HW gear at this point no ifs or buts not everyone can be fine in ilv 130 the defense increase will help healers)

Great Gubal Library ilv requirement 140 (you get plenty of gear by now and alot in HW gear is easy by this point)

Sirensong Sea ilv requirement 245 (same deal as Dusk Vigil plenty of poetics and msq gives 255 gear)

ShiSui of the Violet Tides ilv requirement 255( faster jump because SB ups defense much faster than HW does so gear gets more important faster)

Bardem's mettle ilv requirement 270 (you can do 3 dungeons in full upgraded HW gear this is where you start pushing that gear's defense stats)

Doma Castle ilv requirement 275 (Mandatory SB gear by this point you really start to feel it here)

Castrum Abania ilv requirement 280 (Get out that HW gear already at this point)

Now these ilv requirement are unlikely to affect any new player going through story it will affect alt job leveling forcing players to get gear to enter so long as there are other ways to level i think having these requirements would alliviate some of horror df stories of gubal gear in Sirensong or better yet ironworks in abania, yes gear is ultimately down to the individual player but SE can and should enforce some ilv requirement to stuff they tune things to, stuff in Doma castle is not going to hit you to the same level of as Stone Vigil yet both can be entered with ilv 35 gear.

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Except Abania already synchs your i level.

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Originally Posted by kidalutz

Except Abania already synchs your i level.

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An iLevel CAP is not an iLevel REQUIREMENT.

Whoosh.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

How often does this actually happen though honestly? Ive seen people like that maybe a handful of times in my year plus of playing

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And anecdotally I've seen it often enough that it should warrant every single dungeon having an ilvl requirement or even better a certain main stat requirement.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

And anecdotally I've seen it often enough that it should warrant every single dungeon having an ilvl requirement or even better a certain main stat requirement.

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It truly happens too often >_> hopefully one day it will reach the devs

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Originally Posted by Raldo

An iLevel CAP is not an iLevel REQUIREMENT.

Whoosh.

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No kidding just saying abania doesnt need it or did that pass over your head?

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Originally Posted by kidalutz

No kidding just saying abania doesnt need it or did that pass over your head?

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Ok i think your misunderstanding currently anyone can enter Castrum Abania in ilv 1 gear, this should not be allowed to happen, this is what this thread is asking for a minimum standard of gear before you can enter these dungeons because these dungeons are designed with a minimum standard going into them and it certainly ain't ilv 1.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

How often does this actually happen though honestly? Ive seen people like that maybe a handful of times in my year plus of playing

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Less than you think, but its a lull before the xpac and ppl need an outlet.

Although I would be fine with an iLvl requirement on every dungeon, I have a kick button that works as one. If you really don't want to deal with people who are extremely under-geared, don't tolerate them - remove them from the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Banriikku

The discussion about Diversion is unnecessary. Its a well known fact how important it is and done. Dead DPS/healer cant do their job - thats it and that myth/lie "if i can get the aggro from the tank i'm top dps, lul!" is just irritating and wrong. FF14 is a MMO and teamplay is very important.

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Ahaha
Aaahahah
Ah...

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

Bringing this back because we do really need it, ironworks gear should not be allowed to be worn in Norvenalt dungeons

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I did not read 12 pages, because 3-4 were enough to disappoint me.

Do you realize there will not be a dungeon more difficult than Sastasha-Copperbell mines if SE adds a ilevel requirement?

Why would do dungeons more difficult?
I wear an average ilevel 20 gear (the one from the novice trial) -> I'm sure to do an easy and fast instance.

On the other hand you guys are COMPLETELY missing the duty roulette reason to exist: SE uses this feature for helping new players in the levelling process (and give us a bait as EXP), thus the priority is "fill a party as soon as possibile": --> this SHOULD be clear to everyone observing the moogle event:
-- no one was doing roulette anymore
---> "HEY let's do an earring and place it behind an huge dungeon farm. This way the new players could do a party and the veterans could have a reason to hate Syrcus Tower"

Let's return on topic.
What you are pointing is a problem, but an ilevel restriction is NOT a solution.
SE could use the so-called heirlooms, a full set of equip working exactly like the aetherite earring from ShB preorder.
We finish MSQ, Rowena sell us the set for tomestone-of-something and this equipment synch with our level.
This solution solve a lot of problems:

- have the appropriate item for your level (how many times I soloed a dungeon for "that weapon" or "that piece of armor" and after 10+ runs I gave up)
- don't need to buy/find/change an item every 2-3 levels
- less armory space (it's good for the BLM level 36 and for the RDM level 53)
- don't need materia (no reason to add customization)

Sure, crafters will not sell levelling equip anymore, but you know? the players you are talking about do not buy that equip anyway (1m Gils for 2 levels? bah!) thus it's not a real loss.

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Originally Posted by Mr_Gyactus

I did not read 12 pages, because 3-4 were enough to disappoint me.

Do you realize there will not be a dungeon more difficult than Sastasha-Copperbell mines if SE adds a ilevel requirement?

Why would do dungeons more difficult?
I wear an average ilevel 20 gear (the one from the novice trial) -> I'm sure to do an easy and fast instance.

On the other hand you guys are COMPLETELY missing the duty roulette reason to exist: SE uses this feature for helping new players in the levelling process (and give us a bait as EXP), thus the priority is "fill a party as soon as possibile": --> this SHOULD be clear to everyone observing the moogle event:
-- no one was doing roulette anymore
---> "HEY let's do an earring and place it behind an huge dungeon farm. This way the new players could do a party and the veterans could have a reason to hate Syrcus Tower"

Let's return on topic.
What you are pointing is a problem, but an ilevel restriction is NOT a solution.
SE could use the so-called heirlooms, a full set of equip working exactly like the aetherite earring from ShB preorder.
We finish MSQ, Rowena sell us the set for tomestone-of-something and this equipment synch with our level.
This solution solve a lot of problems:

- have the appropriate item for your level (how many times I soloed a dungeon for "that weapon" or "that piece of armor" and after 10+ runs I gave up)
- don't need to buy/find/change an item every 2-3 levels
- less armory space (it's good for the BLM level 36 and for the RDM level 53)
- don't need materia (no reason to add customization)

Sure, crafters will not sell levelling equip anymore, but you know? the players you are talking about do not buy that equip anyway (1m Gils for 2 levels? bah!) thus it's not a real loss.

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Erm if you think having someone severely under geared is a good reason for making a dungeon more difficult than it needs to be well more power to you but i think that is not a good reason at all.

Wear that gear in Castrum Abania no friends just plop into duty finder and see how it goes because you can and it is not good that you can, spoiler it won't be easy or fast.

The leveling roulette is not an excuse to be wearing gear massively inappropriate for your level, if you think ilv 120 gear should be wearable in level 71+ dungeons due to it being in the leveling roulette, hahahahahahahaha no

That actually could solve the issue of having inappropriate gear, unfortunately when Yoshi P announced the earring he said he was hesitant on adding more stuff like it due to invalidating all other gear the developers have worked on over the years, ilv requirement doesn't have this issue it is probably the easiest thing to implement as well. Now i know people get concerned about new players coming in but i do want to restress these ilv requirements most people are asking for is reasonable and would not catch any new player who picks up their job appropriate gear from the MSQ quests, that is the standard i think SE should design them around because that is what they expect you to have, its the reason why Bardum's Mettle hits harder the lv64 gear offers decent defense boosts so the game for lv 65 dungeon thinks you have it.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

Erm if you think having someone severely under geared is a good reason for making a dungeon more difficult than it needs to be well more power to you but i think that is not a good reason at all.

Wear that gear in Castrum Abania no friends just plop into duty finder and see how it goes because you can and it is not good that you can, spoiler it won't be easy or fast.

The leveling roulette is not an excuse to be wearing gear massively inappropriate for your level, if you think ilv 120 gear should be wearable in level 71+ dungeons due to it being in the leveling roulette, hahahahahahahaha no

That actually could solve the issue of having inappropriate gear, unfortunately when Yoshi P announced the earring he said he was hesitant on adding more stuff like it due to invalidating all other gear the developers have worked on over the years, ilv requirement doesn't have this issue it is probably the easiest thing to implement as well. Now i know people get concerned about new players coming in but i do want to restress these ilv requirements most people are asking for is reasonable and would not catch any new player who picks up their job appropriate gear from the MSQ quests, that is the standard i think SE should design them around because that is what they expect you to have, its the reason why Bardum's Mettle hits harder the lv64 gear offers decent defense boosts so the game for lv 65 dungeon thinks you have it.

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I was misunderstood.
When there is a rule, players start to bend that rule.
When levelling secondary-job, no matter if you clear sastasha or the Vault, because what it matters is the bonus exp you take when you complete the dungeon.
I can do Copperbell mine with 2 big pulls (elevator -> first boss and second boss -> third boss), while in a Bardum Mettle I need to pick 3 groups before the first boss and 10-12 in the whole dungeon.
If there is a rule "item level restricted" I could purposely wear only low level gear, because I wanna do only low-level dungeons (they are faster to complete).

Yoshida can says whatever he wants, but it's hypocritical when we have levelling potions in the mogstation that skips all the content (gear included).
The work does not matter when you pay $50 but it's of vital importance when you don't?

edit. And I would like to point another incoming (related) issue. With ShB we have 80 levels for each job to do.
Ok, we are veterans, so it's only a 70->80 farming, but what about a new player? Levelling a character from zero is starting to be endless: SE should add a bigger bonus exp when levelling alt-jobs, but this mean the levelling goes faster and it's easier to skip a complete tier of equip.
Things are becoming complicated because the game is growing: insane dps, neverending levelling etc etc. and Devs cannot simply ignore the matter.

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Originally Posted by Mr_Gyactus

If there is a rule "item level restricted" I could purposely wear only low level gear, because I wanna do only low-level dungeons (they are faster to complete).

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The quick and simple solution is to make it so that leveling roulette forces an ilvl requirement equal to the highest level dungeon your character has unlocked so there'd be zero way to cheese.

So if you're level 69 and Abania had a hypothetical ilvl lock of 275, then leveling roulette would have a forced ilvl requirement of 275. Bam. Prevents anyone undergeared from entering and blocks any cheese on manipulating the roulette to get results you want. No more WHMs showing up in i200 gear in doma castle getting one shot by literally everything that so much as breathes on them (Thanks duty finder last night.)

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Originally Posted by Awful

That's not the issue we're talking about I couldn't care less if they mass pull or whatever what we're talking about is having people who are massively under geared I had a Sirensong Sea today with 2 people who's average item level was around 160 160!, you can be slightly undergeared and mass pull that's fine ilvl 240 mass pulling? It can be done. A tank mass pulling in ilvl 160 in a dungeon that drops 260 gear? They're gonna die in seconds that's what we're talking about as well as having DPS who have appropriate gear (Bards having DEX accessories vs having INT/MND gear) the issue isn't mass pulling it's people who are too lazy to upgrade their gear.

Here's an example of what we're talking about

https://i.imgur.com/XVjFO0E.jpg?1

This guys avg ilvl is probably about 188? It's unupgraded ilvl 200 AF gear that's a no go when you can easily take an hour out of your time in a day and get 2000 Poetics for some easy 260 gear there's no excuse.

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i can think of one, maybe they didnt know?

I shared this story before on the topic of ilvl and I will say it again, yes please, please add ilvl requirement to MSQ dungeons.

Until a month or so ago I, honestly had no idea that's not a thing. Shame, I know! And so while leveling AST in my scrubby shire gear and some dungeon drops I happily do a level roulette per day and constantly getting the lvl 50 dungeons and sometimes 60. I'm thinking it is because of my ilvl. Now one level left to 70 and imagine my horror when DOMA FRIGGIN CASTLE popped. I was horrifed. I gave heads up to the tank and dps, appologized and lucky for me, they were very understanding. No deaths, smooth run but it did make me push my full toolkit and if the tank didn't do small pulls, I'm sure I wouldn't have managed it.
Lessons were learned that day.