Level Syncing isn't the best solution

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Originally Posted by Rhomagus

When you show them examples of other games that have indeed "done that" they counter with, "its not worth development resources."

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You have yet to show us the examples of other games that have indeed done it and left their overall player base as happy with the scaled experience as they are when doing content designed around their level cap toolkits.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

You have yet to show us the examples of other games that have indeed done it and left their overall player base as happy with the scaled experience as they are when doing content designed around their level cap toolkits.

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Easy.

World of Warcraft: Timewalking dungeons queue. Do old dungeons where your character is scaled down but you keep your abilities.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Timewalking

https://blizzardwatch.com/2015/07/17...mewalking-wow/

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Easy.

World of Warcraft: Timewalking dungeons queue. Do old dungeons where your character is scaled down but you keep your abilities.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Timewalking

https://blizzardwatch.com/2015/07/17...mewalking-wow/

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WoW does not scale you down below 60 though that is the difference. Low level dungeons like Dead mines have already been given a heroic version for higher level players to run leaving the original for low levels. FF14 has already followed suit with its own variation in the form of places like Tam tara hard. What the OP and others want is most of if not all high level abilites accessible in the original dungeons themselves.

I think the core of the issue is that, the way abilities are given to players, jobs change dramatically as they level. BLM sub 50 and BLM 50+ can almost be called completely separate jobs.

BLM isn't the only job that suffers this, and definitely not the only one that feels stupidly incomplete until level cap or darn near it. So perhaps a good compromise suggestion would be to mire intelligently provide abilities through the leveling experience.

I'd be all for scaling down my lv70 rotation to whatever I'm synced down to, so long as it still provides a damage / output advantage. I'd be a lot more fun to do duty finder content and reward being high level.

Alas, it will never happen because it would be OP and pretty much wipe out older content.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

No, people aren’t running Leveling Roulette as a level 70 job because they simply don’t want to—if they aren’t leveling or don’t need tomestones or don’t want cracked clusters, they skip it and do other things. It’s not because they lose skills when they’re synced down, and you’re being disingenuous by insinuating that, because the OP wants his skills regardless of sync or because you want your skills regardless of sync, that everyone feels this way.

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Can confirm that this is at least the case for myself and my fc. No one in my fc complains much about being in low lvl content as long as it's not Sastasha or Totorak. I don't hate the low lvl content, I simply have no need to run them on my main. However I still do them on my alts and I enjoy them as they are.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

No, people aren’t running Leveling Roulette as a level 70 job because they simply don’t want to—if they aren’t leveling or don’t need tomestones or don’t want cracked clusters, they skip it and do other things. It’s not because they lose skills when they’re synced down

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I do not run anything under level cap because I don't want to be sync'd down. I also run very little ilvl sync content as well, I just don't understand why I'm progressing if the game is going to take it away with like 90% of the content. It just makes zero sense to me.

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Originally Posted by OurMom

It just makes zero sense to me.

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An option to play with a friend who haven't reached your level yet but not ruining the whole experience fo him by rolling over the content, maybe ?

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

An option to play with a friend who haven't reached your level yet but not ruining the whole experience fo him by rolling over the content, maybe ?

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Who says that's what everyone or even most people want?
Who says that my friend doesn't mind being carried?
Why force dungeons/lore (that some people dont care about) on people and then take their levels away?

So while what you're saying is an "option maybe" it shouldn't be because it should not have been designed like that in the first place.

I don't know of any other mmo that does this and yet they're all managing some how....

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Originally Posted by OurMom

Why force dungeons/lore (that some people dont care about) on people and then take their levels away?

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It's so that players who are lvling won't have 3 hour+ queues.

And if getting synced down bothers you so much you could just not queue in roulettes that can do that. Crazy idea I know. Obviously I'm some nugget of genius given so many here haven't considered this.

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Originally Posted by OurMom

Who says that's what everyone or even most people want?

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Don't do the roulette if you personnaly don't want to.

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Originally Posted by OurMom

Who says that my friend doesn't mind being carried?

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Run in unsync mode as a duo.

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Originally Posted by OurMom

Why force dungeons/lore (that some people dont care about) on people and then take their levels away?

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You don't have to do dungeons more than once if you don't like it. The first time you do it, changes are you're of the proper level, and if not, run unsync.

Amazing how people conveniently forget every option they have to complain about the option they don't like as being the only one...

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Originally Posted by OurMom

Who says that's what everyone or even most people want?
Who says that my friend doesn't mind being carried?
Why force dungeons/lore (that some people dont care about) on people and then take their levels away?

So while what you're saying is an "option maybe" it shouldn't be because it should not have been designed like that in the first place.

I don't know of any other mmo that does this and yet they're all managing some how....

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FFXI had it in an expansion no less where it had many zones instanced or not that would sync you down to a lower level and stopping you from from using higher skills and magic. It also made you have to carry gear that you could use at 30, 40, 50 and 60. It's no longer like that and I'm not sure how they deal with level sync these days.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Amazing how people conveniently forget every option they have to complain about the option they don't like as being the only one...

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Originally Posted by Penthea

And if getting synced down bothers you so much you could just not queue in roulettes that can do that. Crazy idea I know. Obviously I'm some nugget of genius given so many here haven't considered this.

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Originally Posted by OurMom

I do not run anything under level cap because I don't want to be sync'd down. I also run very little ilvl sync content as well, I just don't understand why I'm progressing if the game is going to take it away with like 90% of the content. It just makes zero sense to me.

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It's like that almost wasn't you being sarcastic but your actual level of intelligence there.


I love when people reply to my comment of me saying what I don't do....to tell me....I don't have to do it.... truly amazing.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

FFXI had it in an expansion no less where it had many zones instanced or not that would sync you down to a lower level and stopping you from from using higher skills and magic. It also made you have to carry gear that you could use at 30, 40, 50 and 60. It's no longer like that and I'm not sure how they deal with level sync these days.

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That sounds just awful, an entire area? No thanks. I've played almost every mmo out there and it seems like they all get by without level syncing. It's like players there actually talk to each other and ask for help or the content is worth going back to or people just don't get if someone blows through it.

Not sure what it is, but level syncing is just awful to me.

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Originally Posted by OurMom

Why force dungeons/lore (that some people dont care about) on people and then take their levels away?

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You must be new to the Final Fantasy franchise in which story/lore is literally it's backbone when concerning their games and everything else comes second.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

You must be new to the Final Fantasy franchise in which story/lore is literally it's backbone when concerning their games and everything else comes second.

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I'm tired of this excuse it doesn't mean anything.

Once they slap MMO on to FF it becomes just that, mmo players, play mmorpgs. And every single mmo I've played (with the exception of bdo, I mean bdo has lore it's just the equivalent of a coloring book) has story/lore that all provides reasons as to why you're in x area and why you're in x dungeons. What mmo out there literally has no lore? That's not even me being sarcastic I'd honestly want to play that since I don't have much to play right now anyway.


Also if because "it's a FF game it can't deviate from what it is" is a legit, logical reasoning then this game shouldn't exist at all because the FF franchise is mostly single player rpgs so....they need to stay true to that.

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Originally Posted by OurMom

I'm tired of this excuse it doesn't mean anything.

Once they slap MMO on to FF it becomes just that, mmo players, play mmorpgs. And every single mmo I've played (with the except of bdo) has story/lore that all provides reasons as to why you're in x area and why you're in x dungeons. What mmo out there literally has no lore? That's not even me being sarcastic I'd honestly want to play that since I don't have much to play right now anyway.


Also if because "it's a FF game it can't deviate from what it is" is a legit, logical reasoning then this game shouldn't exist at all because the FF franchise is mostly single player rpgs so....they need to stay true to that.

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It's not an excuse, that is literally what they do. They are Story/Lore first and everything else comes second. This is not like every other single MMO you've ever played. Why do you think they focus so heavily on completing the MSQ and locking content BEHIND that when most other MMO's don't?

You want an MMO that doesn't tie you down to lore? Then, go play Ragnarok Online where everything is a grindfest and literally it does not matter whether you're paying attention to the lore or not.

SE has always, always been, whether you like it or not, pushed their stories in FF games.

I'm sorry if that's not what you want to hear, personally, but it is what it is.

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Originally Posted by OurMom

I love when people reply to my comment of me saying what I don't do....to tell me....I don't have to do it.... truly amazing.

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"Yeah, I'm asking questions about a topic I don't care about and pick on those who answer, look how smart I am"...

Seriously, if you don't do level synced content, why are you even posting here ?

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

Why do you think they focus so heavily on completing the MSQ and locking content BEHIND that when most other MMO's don't?

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To push those cash shop items they're selling. When HW came out and that huge issue with the forced MSQs came into play, did they fix it? No they added cash shop items. So it's either to push those or that they have no idea what they're doing mmorpg wise.

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go play Ragnarok Online where everything is a grindfest and literally it does not matter whether you're paying attention to the lore or not.

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Not paying attention to lore/story =/= having absolutely no lore. Again every mmorpg has lore/story I can't think of any that forces AND takes away your progression as results of said forced story.

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I'm sorry if that's not what you want to hear, personally, but it is what it is.

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It's not about what I want to hear it's about how forced stories + level syncing is a bad design for a mmorpg with progression. Hence why their retention rate is so awful.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

"Yeah, I'm asking questions about a topic I don't care about and pick on those who answer, look how smart I am"...

Seriously, if you don't do level synced content, why are you even posting here ?

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I don't know if you're being serious or you're seriously this slow. Did you read what the person I was responding to said at all? I mean it's one thing if I randomly posted that but I was obviously replying to someone. You should probably read the post someone is replying to, so you can know what's going on but here let me help you out.

Person A made a claim that people don't run roulettes content because it takes away their skills.

Person B said that's not true, people dont run roulettes because they don't need to run the content any more, by either being done leveling, capped on tomes, etc. And that it has nothing to do with level syncing.

So I replied to person B saying "I actually don't run roulettes because I don't like to be level sync'd"

To which you replied with "HEY DONT DO LEVEL SYNC'D CONTENT THEN OMG!"

Glad to clear that up.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

"Yeah, I'm asking questions about a topic I don't care about and pick on those who answer, look how smart I am"...

Seriously, if you don't do level synced content, why are you even posting here ?

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Because one of the points of this thread is attempting to think of ways to bring people who normally don't do certain kinds of content, into the content they don't do. Specifically level synced content.

And rewarding max level characters for the time they've put in and not making them feel weaker.

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Originally Posted by OurMom

snip.

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Honestly, all I can tell you is that if you're sincerely, and I mean sincerely, against the idea of level sync....then perhaps you should invest your time into some other MMO that might make you happy?

Because, I really doubt that they're going to changes things this far into its life cycle.

I know, you've probably heard that one a million times too. But, I do seriously doubt that things will ever change.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

If you don't like one part of the game, don't play the game

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There's other stuff to do outside of level sync'd content (even though its a good chunk of the game) and this isn't my main game either. Me and BDO/Archage are just on a little break right now :/

However the solution to something as small level syncing shouldn't be go play something else. I see this mentality a lot here, do people really just drop anything because there's 1 or 2 non major things wrong with something?

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Originally Posted by OurMom

There's other stuff to do outside of level sync'd content (even though its a good chunk of the game) and this isn't my main game either. Me and BDO/Archage are just on a little break right now :/

However the solution to something as small level syncing shouldn't be go play something else. I see this mentality a lot here, do people really just drop anything because there's 1 or 2 non major things wrong with something?

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Well, the developers themselves did say to take frequent breaks from the game during an interview. >_>;

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Originally Posted by OurMom

Did you read what the person I was responding to said at all?

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Did you try rereading your own posts ?

You know, when you said "It makes no sense to progress if I have to go back to my old level" and I replied "The reason is to help your friend and not ruin their immersion"...
And then you asked a bunch of questions about what to do if that reason is not valid...?

Congratulations ! You're the first person I came accross that have a hard time following his/her own train of thoughts.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

And rewarding max level characters for the time they've put in and not making them feel weaker.

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Again, if you're not "weaker", you're not balanced around people who are of the proper level. As for reward...Ok, do people really forgot that Daily Roulette have rewards attached to them ?!

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

You know, when you said "It makes no sense to progress if I have to go back to my old level" and I replied "The reason is to help your friend and not ruin their immersion"...

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Holy cow!

Fam, you asked questions to my original post that honestly shouldn't have been asked. You were asking questions to me explaining WHY I don't do level sync'd content. Then the questions weren't good because there's no real reasoning for level syncing other than they kill off stuff too fast/it's too easy.

Then after you asked a bunch of questions you proceed to tell me...that I don't have to do level sync'd stuff....which I already said....I don't do.

You have to be trolling right now. Just say you didn't pay attention because there's no way you could have and then still decided it would be smart to tell me I don't have to do what I already said I don't do.

Also immersion and helping doesn't make sense if they sell jump positions and not everyone cares about immersion....shocking I know.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Again, if you're not "weaker", you're not balanced around people who are of the proper level. As for reward...Ok, do people really forgot that Daily Roulette have rewards attached to them ?!

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They mean their character is weaker.

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Originally Posted by OurMom

Fam, you asked questions to my original post that honestly shouldn't have been asked.

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Silly me ! You're apparently plenty happy to "not understand" why the game uses level sync...
And bored enough to come ranting about something you don't even do...

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

And bored enough to come ranting about something you don't even do...

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Again, this is how I know you didn't read the post I was responding to or that you just simply can't read, not sure.

My post was in response to someone else and it wasn't ranting.

"People don't run roulettes because of X not Y"
"I actually don't run roulettes because of X"

"THEN JUST DONT RUN ROULETTES OMG YOU'RE SO SMART! YOU JUST NEVER THOUGHT TO NOT RUN ROULETTES HUH!?! JESUS CHRIST THESE PEOPLE!!"

Psstt, that's you...that's you...being smart lol.

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Originally Posted by OurMom

"THEN JUST DONT RUN ROULETTES OMG YOU'RE SO SMART! YOU JUST NEVER THOUGHT TO NOT RUN ROULETTES HUH!?! JESUS CHRIST THESE PEOPLE!!"

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Well you are complaining about doing low lvl stuff when you queue for something that you know can bring you there...so...

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Well you are complaining about doing low lvl stuff when you queue for something that you know can bring you there...so...

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How am I complaining when I'm literally talking to someone about WHY I don't do it.

Complaining is constant griping about it. Me helping prove/disprove someone else's point by stating what I don't do and then providing reasoning as to why I don't (which was part of the point) isn't complaining. I can't complain about queueing for stuff that can level sync me when I said I don't do it.

Our education system at it's finest...

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

Well, the developers themselves did say to take frequent breaks from the game during an interview. >_>;

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Your post came off as, don't play the game at all, rather than "hey take a break". Not sure if that's what you intended.

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Originally Posted by OurMom

My post was in response to someone else and it wasn't ranting.

"People don't run roulettes because of X not Y"
"I actually don't run roulettes because of X"

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Hello, I’m the person you quoted. Did you consider the context of my post that you quoted? The person I quoted was specifically insinuating that everyone is discouraged from running Leveling Roulette because they lose their level 70 skills, based on the opening post and how he personally feels. I said that it was disingenous to say that everyone feels that way, or that it’s a majority of players based off of one post from one person. People dont run it typically because they aren’t leveling or don’t need the rewards; and besides those two things, there’s no reason to run it outside of boredom or wanting to help other people.

The logic you used in responsding to me literally applies to how I responded originally:

“Everyone is discouraged from running Leveling Roulette because they lose their level 70 skills!”
“Actually, people don’t run it because they either don’t need the EXP or the Tomestones/Cracked Clusters; it’s generally not because of the sync.”

The first sentence has been that individual’s entire premise the entire time he’s been in this thread. He’s basing his “evidence” on how he personally feels about the roulette (and sync), and trying to apply it to everyone. And then gets defensive when people disagree with him.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

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Yes I did and I don't agree with his "everyone" as none of us here have any numbers. However your post and the part I quoted just went the opposite of him but with the same logic. "Nope people aren't doing it because x but because of y instead". So like the person that posted agreeing with you (that no one seems to have a problem with even though they did the same thing I did, wonder why) I decided to post, and give my reason as to why I do or don't do something.

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Originally Posted by OurMom

Yes I did and I don't agree with his "everyone" as none of us here have any numbers. However your post and the part I quoted just went the opposite of him but with the same logic. "Nope people aren't doing it because x but because of y instead". So like the person that posted agreeing with you (that no one seems to have a problem with even though they did the same thing I did, wonder why) I decided to post, and give my reason as to why I do or don't do something.

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And my reason for why I don’t do it is different from yours. I’m failing to see your point, but it seems like you’re arguing semantics. You missed where I never said “everyone”; I said people. That’s not insinuating a majority, unlike the poster I responded to.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

And my reason for why I don’t do it is different from yours. I’m failing to see your point, but it seems like you’re arguing semantics. You missed where I never said “everyone”; I said people. That’s not insinuating a majority, unlike the poster I responded to.

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I never said what your personal reasons where for doing it.

You said "people" in this context it's just a more acceptable "everyone". You can't get upset because he said everyone while you do the same thing.

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Originally Posted by OurMom

I never said what your personal reasons where for doing it.

You said "people" in this context it's just a more acceptable "everyone". You can't get upset because he said everyone while you do the same thing.

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You’re using your personal reasons to try and disprove my statement, though. Hence why I gave you my personal reason. Personal reasons don’t prove or disprove anything though; they’re anecdotes.

“People” =/= “Everyone”. You’re arguing semantics, and that’s about it at this point. I’m not going to waste anymore of my allotted posts arguing semantics with someone.

I’m not getting upset over it; if you think I am, then you’re reading too much into my comments.

@OurMom yes entire zones most which were instanced that were capped and had boss fights in them that allowed you to progress in the story. Then there's the non instanced zone that depending on where you were on the map you were uncapped or capped. You seriously would walk down a hallway and enter a room n go from one or the other. This went on for years btw. It took them raising the max level cap to remove those caps.

So yeah SE has done this in the past. Let's also try to not forget that they didn't tune the ARR n HW dungeons after they changed our skills at the start of SB.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

You’re using your personal reasons to try and disprove my statement, though. Hence why I gave you my personal reason. Personal reasons don’t prove or disprove anything though; they’re anecdotes.

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Ok here's the thing, I don't know where you read where I said your personal reasons aren't valid or disproves anything. I never mentioned your personal reasons for why you run/don't run roulettes.

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“People” =/= “Everyone”. You’re arguing semantics

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In this context I'm not.

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I’m not getting upset over it

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Figure of speech, if though it's stated as such I don't actually mean you're upset. Yes I know not everyone will be able to tell that through text. I was doing several other things and didn't pay it much attention until now.

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Originally Posted by OurMom

You said "people" in this context it's just a more acceptable "everyone". You can't get upset because he said everyone while you do the same thing.

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:thinking:

By definition and no other qualifiers, "people" need not include "everyone." It's simply a non- numbered plural for more than one person and is vague; it'd need the words "all" or "every" or otherwise something of the same ilk. "Everyone" is all persons.