I miss the old PvP.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

THEN there's the DPS that realized the current state of PvP balancing and have made the jump to healer either for faster queues, easier climbing, or personal challenge.

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I learned how to play SCH just for Feast in season 2. Would not have been able to climb to top 100 if i hadnt. DPS queues were just to slow. They still are to slow.

Not that I played ranked at all but WHM was SO fun in old PVP! Perhaps a little too fun and this is why we can no longer have nice things.

Of all the threads the reps say they forward feedback to the devs from, I really hope this one is at the forefront of them.

Lace! I came here googling 'Astragalos queue' and posted on the forums for the first time ever since i started playing the game almost 4 years ago. i can only imagine you're 100% correct in hoping the devs see this thread. i miss the old pvp too and can safely say it's probably for the same reasons as described throughout.

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Originally Posted by Corona_S

Lace! I came here googling 'Astragalos queue' and posted on the forums for the first time ever since i started playing the game almost 4 years ago. i can only imagine you're 100% correct in hoping the devs see this thread. i miss the old pvp too and can safely say it's probably for the same reasons as described throughout.

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The Problem is that the Devs really seem to think those new changes got more People to play PvP. In fact People started to PvP when a ton of Rewards got thrown into the Game (Hi @ Garo Event) since they finaly had a motivating reason to do so. A lot of those people stayed with PvP and only stoped playing it again with the new 5 button System. I really hope Square will realize this some Day.

I agree. The one good step forward with 3.5 changing the Wolf Mark rewards and cost of gear to something more reasonable, the changes to, and standardization of CC skills, and the improved queues via Frontline Freelancer were unfortunately undone and made into something worse with the complete overhaul of 4.0, and the fairweather, only-in-it-for-the-reward crowd that it attracted. SE needs to understand that while there are a few good ideas that came with 4.0 PvP, it has largely done near-irreparable damage to the once-dedicated community that formed around it, and replaced it with something far less positive, no matter what participation numbers might say.

Once, things like forefeiting, cheating, and botting were largely looked down upon, and the community maintained a standard of morals and sportsmanship. Now, this new system, and the horrible imbalances, lack of action or even acknowledgement from SE of rampant cheating, and continued shortsightedness in changes made, as well as unmistakably glaring differences in treatment between the JP PvP community and the NA/EU communities all but encourages that which further harms PvP in this game.

tl;dr: Your numbers don't tell enough of the story, SE. We invite you to join us for matches here in NA/EU sometime, and see what's really going on. And not one of your phoned in, "for funsies" streams. Get in the dirt with the men, and see just how filthy things have become.

Those were great times. /:

I like this idea.

Just wanted to post new clip from senpai snave from SWTOR as this exactly what i miss from old pvp https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko4WJoDPwlA

Also i never taught i would take a brake from FF as i always used to go ham with pvp every time there was patch lull :(

#makepvpgreatagainpls

EDIT: I got inspired by that snave's clip and i went and ripped my old PC apart so i could get my old HDD out just so i could upload this only clip i have from old pvp when i was testing new GPU and shadowplay, nothing fancy as its the end of HW and my attitude was already "whatever" but it still has that old gameplay i miss a lot. Its raw footage and its missing last one and half minutes and for some reason it includes some whistling and sneezing as it seems it also recorded mic sounds :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKuQ...ature=youtu.be

Nice vids!

I have to admit, the harder part of making PvP videos now is making this 4.0 PvP look interesting.

"Lacedrop", my last new 3.x video was a standout work, even to me, and showcased what I feel was more interesting examples of PvP in this game, whereas my first 4.0 video, "Heat" was actually pretty tough to make, because even I thought, "how do I make this look interesting?"

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Nice vids!

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Everytime Snave uploads new clips it makes me want to play SWTOR again just for PvP(maybe i do at some point), Huttball was so awesome and this new Ancient Hypergate that was not there when i played it looks pretty damn cool too as it has kinda weird win condition, its something like get both capture points if possible as they acts as point multiplier then frag some kills that determines points combined with capture points you get at the end of each round and before round timer ends get inside mid as there is zone wide instant wipe, rinse and repeat for few rounds and team with most points wins.

Also lol@filthy frank edit as its sooooo easy to relate for that feeling >_<

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

I have to admit, the harder part of making PvP videos now is making this 4.0 PvP look interesting.

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Thats why i do no FFXIV PvP Vids anymore XD I laughed so hard!

I had to switch up my format a bit, for a number of reasons. Seemingly triggered Reddit showing off "winning against less skilled players" (let's ignore that I was still fairly "new" on the circuit among the old community back in 3.x), and when I started teaching other people how to PvP, I saw the opportunity to offer a more realistic take on what it's like to be a "top" PvPer. There are a LOT of failures and defeats behind all those highlights, and after doing enough highlights, I decided I'd rather opt to entertain and teach, if not inspire through my works. If it means "highlighting" a moment of carelessness, or my signature reckless bravado going very right/very wrong, I don't mind it at all.

Still. . . if I could have these acrobatic Heated shots with the old wham-bam MCH burst, THAT would be impressive to see!

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Still. . . if I could have these acrobatic Heated shots with the old wham-bam MCH burst, THAT would be impressive to see!

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A Man (or women) can dream. The new changes with 4.2 didnt bring my hope back for better times.

Good Job Square Enix you really out did yourselves, I stopped playing due to you ruining summoner for me and I decided to come back to give the game another try and to do the new content after 2 patches and I tried to play pvp and found out how brainless and boring you have made it, absolutely disgusted how simplified you've made PVP, going to really miss the old PVP and probably wont renew my subscription after doing the new content, this game is becoming worse and worse.

Hey, just getting back into the game here. I was excited to do the pvp because the last time I played they only had 4v4 arena style. However, I queue'd in and was caught off guard by the empty bars. I figured it out and made it through that first game having no idea what was going on with abilities.

I'm coming from a gladiator background in wow where it takes weeks to hone your abilities and even then you still learn new things as you play the class.

I just want to say that it literally took me maybe 2 hours to master the "new"(New to me?) setup and that's with 30 minutes of queue time. Pvp in this game has a lot of potential but who's idea was it to murder all my keybinds? The only skill left in pvp it seems is managing people and setting kill targets. Seems like the skill of the individual was just thrown out the window.

Also, why are there bots everywhere? Bots will kill pvp. Blizzard let it continue for a long time and the bots wrecked their sub and pvp numbers.

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Originally Posted by Zarkhov

Pvp in this game has a lot of potential but who's idea was it to murder all my keybinds?

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This is pretty good question, only thing i can think of that SE kinda misunderstood when some players moaned about button bloat, the issue never really was the amount of abilities but the hotbars. What i mean is that every time you swapped between pve and pvp you had to rearrange some of skills that were not needed in pvp while making room for those few pvp-only abilities, ironically they actually fixed that in this new revamp by having a automatic pvp hotbar swap when entering pvp area. I think that is what most wanted myself included but i never wanted to lose those abilities, i dunno maybe i am wrong and some people really hated to have around 30 different abilities on their arsenal.

But to get real answer you really should ask this from YP himself only he can give it, maybe someone can ask this on fanfest.

The "too many buttons" issue would've been easily handled by the Stormblood job adjustments alone (as they pruned or reworked lesser-used/redundant/unnecessary skills), but they decided to double down on the skill pruning and force fit each job into 9 buttons and homogenize the PvP skills to be one size fits all, as opposed to a few universal skills, then skills specific to each job.

This is when I ironically point out that they homogenized and force fit each job into 9 buttons in PvP at a time they were - in their own words - attempting to make each job feel different from each other.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

The "too many buttons" issue would've been easily handled by the Stormblood job adjustments alone (as they pruned or reworked lesser-used/redundant/unnecessary skills), but they decided to double down on the skill pruning and force fit each job into 9 buttons and homogenize the PvP skills to be one size fits all, as opposed to a few universal skills, then skills specific to each job.

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Oh my this has to be a fate or something https://youtu.be/M-D-wW_Sdvc?t=50m2s is it me or does that sound really familiar? :O

3.x was an unbalanced clusterfuck albeit fun. It was mainly all about solo carrying or just simply soloing anyone if you were good enough. That type of solo-type play where you can 1v7 in feast and win is not what MMORPG PvP is supposed to be about. This new revamp of PvP is better because it is 100% team based now, sorry you can't solo carry and stroke your ego. On the surface, Feast in general is amazing as a concept, the only real negatives is the medal system and now recently the terrible new map. I'm pretty sure the main reason why you all hate SB PvP is because of how team based it is, that your teammates are probably awful, because of having awful teammates that play like 3.x you will never get kills and never win. Granted team based PvP is probably not your guys' cup of tea, as well as the ability prunes.

I am pretty sure you're all just completely unaware that Feast is now all about teamwork and communication, which is why the skill gap exists and why people don't improve because they don't know how yet its really simple and takes common sense.

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Originally Posted by Crit

all about teamwork and communication

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Oh the irony.

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Originally Posted by Crit

3.x was an unbalanced clusterfuck albeit fun. It was mainly all about solo carrying or just simply soloing anyone if you were good enough. That type of solo-type play where you can 1v7 in feast and win is not what MMORPG PvP is supposed to be about. This new revamp of PvP is better because it is 100% team based now, sorry you can't solo carry and stroke your ego. On the surface, Feast in general is amazing as a concept, the only real negatives is the medal system and now recently the terrible new map. I'm pretty sure the main reason why you all hate SB PvP is because of how team based it is, that your teammates are probably awful, because of having awful teammates that play like 3.x you will never get kills and never win. Granted team based PvP is probably not your guys' cup of tea, as well as the ability prunes.

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This is. . . incredibly wrong, on so many levels.

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Originally Posted by Crit

3.x was an unbalanced clusterfuck albeit fun. It was mainly all about solo carrying or just simply soloing anyone if you were good enough. That type of solo-type play where you can 1v7 in feast and win is not what MMORPG PvP is supposed to be about. This new revamp of PvP is better because it is 100% team based now, sorry you can't solo carry and stroke your ego. On the surface, Feast in general is amazing as a concept, the only real negatives is the medal system and now recently the terrible new map. I'm pretty sure the main reason why you all hate SB PvP is because of how team based it is, that your teammates are probably awful, because of having awful teammates that play like 3.x you will never get kills and never win. Granted team based PvP is probably not your guys' cup of tea, as well as the ability prunes.

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Just read my post history, please and thank you.
Will reply if there is question.

i think the new Pvp need's more skill's per job a there is no flavor anymore its way to easy shows how much sq care about us

They care so much about the new players, so they water it down as much as possible so anyone could do good (which some people still suck a lot even with the new pvp).

Feels like SE don't want to make people use half of a braincell to play, or put some kind of effort on learning how to play. I'll be surprise if, by the end of the expansion, we end up with some quick time event like the God of War ones in pvp.

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Originally Posted by Crit

I am pretty sure you're all just completely unaware that Feast is....

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Its always about Feast? i could care less about those damn arenas as they always ruin general pvp, arenas are what hit the final nail in the coffin of WoW's world pvp and in here it killed FL's. Arenas have and always will be the most boring mode for pvp, in the end it is simply just TDM that you can have in wPvP or in battlegrounds while each offers more layers of strategy on top of killing opponents. Killing is the easiest part in pvp but when you add objective in the mix it gets way more interesting, be it defending something or assaulting something. If anything SE should have added ranked FL's in the game instead Feast, now that is something i would have loved to do and watch when done in higher level. Even RW could be cool if it was made for pre-made vs pre-made but nope.

I would love that as well!

Unfortunately, SE has decided to try to force refit the Feast as an "e-sport", ironically taking it in the opposite direction in the process, and seemingly deciding Frontlines and Rival Wings aren't important enough for proper balancing as well (or even separately if it came to it). The player base as well has it firmly rooted in their minds that large-scale, team-based PvP modes are "not to be taken seriously" and the way they play as well as the common understanding and skill level within those modes reflect that.

A LOT of things need positive change, but the players and/or SE's targeted audience needs it the most.

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Originally Posted by Crit

That type of solo-type play where you can 1v7

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Yeah this may be an exaggeration but don't see how that is even possible. The only thing I ever saw was Rara Mira taking on 4 people as warrior. But his opponents were dumb. Why attack a tank when he has pushback up? If you can't watch your enemies buffs then your situational awareness is lacking and it has nothing to do with anything being unbalanced.

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Originally Posted by Synestra

Its always about Feast? i could care less about those damn arenas as they always ruin general pvp, arenas are what hit the final nail in the coffin of WoW\\\\'s world pvp and in here it killed FL\\\\'s. Arenas have and always will be the most boring mode for pvp, in the end it is simply just TDM that you can have in wPvP or in battlegrounds while each offers more layers of strategy on top of killing opponents. Killing is the easiest part in pvp but when you add objective in the mix it gets way more interesting, be it defending something or assaulting something. If anything SE should have added ranked FL\\\\'s in the game instead Feast, now that is something i would have loved to do and watch when done in higher level. Even RW could be cool if it was made for pre-made vs pre-made but nope.

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!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Crit

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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??????????????????

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Originally Posted by Crit

3.x was an unbalanced clusterfuck albeit fun. It was mainly all about solo carrying or just simply soloing anyone if you were good enough. That type of solo-type play where you can 1v7 in feast and win is not what MMORPG PvP is supposed to be about. This new revamp of PvP is better because it is 100% team based now, sorry you can't solo carry and stroke your ego. On the surface, Feast in general is amazing as a concept, the only real negatives is the medal system and now recently the terrible new map. I'm pretty sure the main reason why you all hate SB PvP is because of how team based it is, that your teammates are probably awful, because of having awful teammates that play like 3.x you will never get kills and never win. Granted team based PvP is probably not your guys' cup of tea, as well as the ability prunes.

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That's an extensive way of saying "I sucked too much in 3.X to carry games, so I'm just going to try and ridicule the very concept!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!". Nicely done.
Kinda funny when people who had to wait for the rating AND skill system to change, so that you can reach Top 100/Diamond with a 45% winrate while using single-digit skills, try to mock HW Feast, especially Season 1 and 2.

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Originally Posted by Crit

That type of solo-type play where you can 1v7 in feast and win

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How does one 1v7 in feast? is that like where you're such a badass you kill your own team before taking out the other team alone?

I agree the automatic pvp hotbar should have been enough. However, in regard to the "button bloat", this is what separates skilled players from the rest. The time and practice it takes to master 30 keybinds should set x person apart in pvp or pve from people who are clickers or too lazy to learn how to use keybinds.

To the people saying this is to encourage more communication, that argument is invalid until SE removes the bots. At this point I do mark and call out kill targets but most of the time either 1/2 of the people don't care or they are bots. With this noobish pvp setup you can't take down a white mage with 2/3 people while the bots sit there on their mounts.

Also, there's nothing to strive for now since they took skill completely out of the pvp game. Even though a lot of bad players are posting in the pvp forums saying that only a small portion of players wanted to keep the keybinds, at the end of the day that's just not true. It gave people something to work on and better their playing ability.

So the only thing a player has to work on now is communication and teamwork. But, in a pug the individual player can only poke and prod teammates so much. You will almost always have players who don't read chat, don't care about what the team is doing, or running bots. As one person stated, it's 100% team based now, so therefore if you get a handful of people with those previously mentioned issues, what's the point of playing the pvp maps? Trying harder won't make a difference since you're limited to the skill cap.

Basically, it's now easier to have a match ruined by bad players/bots since you can't make up the difference in skill.

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Originally Posted by Zarkhov

Basically, it's now easier to have a match ruined by bad players/bots since you can't make up the difference in skill.

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THIS!! So much this!

Take note SE, your attempts to adjust and improve PvP to create a "simpler" system not only fail in their intended purpose, they've exacerbated existing problems and created others that otherwise alienate your original target audience for PvP.

I want exp gone. I leveled my machinist in there but I would give all that exp back so I don’t have bots and some of these players who only queue for exp.

There weren't enough of you to populate light party Feast in 3.0. The whole "two week problem" killed Feast in 3.0 first, after two seasons if i remember. You couldn't even keep 8v8 training Feast spawning when we only had two or three modes to it. You don't even use the arena circle; I go there on my server and its empty. I never see any pvp linkshells advertise in game. Maybe once in a long while someone posts a discord, but I'm getting sick of people claiming "the community wants this or hates that" when you guys gave up even on making Seal rock nights on reddit (and oh yes, 3.0 frontlines was so dead they had to do that just to get them to pop.)

You want to be taken seriously as a community you need to act like it.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

You don't even use the arena circle; I go there on my server and its empty. I never see any pvp linkshells advertise in game.

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Leviathan and Hyperion have PvP LS's and multiples. I know of 3 different ones on Hyperion and it is also part of the reason why I switched from Ultros. I disregard shouts and so I don't advertise my LS at all but I find people who are on my server in matches or other members recruit people from their statics/FC's. We have a healthy LS with people pvp'ing every night. Sometimes it just takes someone to start it and then it grows.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

There weren't enough of you to populate light party Feast in 3.0. The whole "two week problem" killed Feast in 3.0 first, after two seasons if i remember. You couldn't even keep 8v8 training Feast spawning when we only had two or three modes to it. You don't even use the arena circle; I go there on my server and its empty. I never see any pvp linkshells advertise in game. Maybe once in a long while someone posts a discord, but I'm getting sick of people claiming "the community wants this or hates that" when you guys gave up even on making Seal rock nights on reddit (and oh yes, 3.0 frontlines was so dead they had to do that just to get them to pop.)

You want to be taken seriously as a community you need to act like it.

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Okay. Wait. Hold up.

Let me give this one my full attention.

8v8 Feast was terrible as a "training" mode, and when they lifted role locks, what do you think happened? People stacked healers and tried to manipulate the system. Ninjas getting double/triple pocketed, overstacking, and hiding with medals, or tanks overstacking then hanging back across a bridge while your team that you can no longer explain it to sits on a bridge fighting casters and being oblivious to the other 4 ways you could get around that choke point. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed 8v8, but when chat was removed and people who didn't know/didn't care started trying to take advantage of that, especially when it came to relics, tomes, Garo progress, and anything besides actually wanting to play the mode, it killed the fun of that real quick.

The dueling circle? I united my server's scattered PvPers under a linkshell that still exists today where others have failed, and all from simply dueling with and teaching who would become my first student. I taught him. Others saw what was happening, and joined in. We taught each other. We did customs. We formed FL teams. We became part of that "community" you're trying to make light of and say we aren't. And that was just Goblin. I saw it on Balmung too. Hell, it was even MORE prevalent on Balmung then. Pretty sure Gilgamesh, Jenova, and Cactaur can chime in on that and say the same. I won't speak on Primal since I wasn't there til recently, but Aether had a strong, active community.

Then 4.0 happened.

We don't duel because there's nothing to teach anymore with this 9 button garbage. There's no need to teach a DPS about what to look for when fighting a tank; tanks aren't even tanky now. Fighting healers? Sure, try to 1v1 someone who casts faster and heals incrementally above anything and everything you do. Oh, and do it without cc skills too if you're a melee that comes in any flavor but Ninja. PvP LSes likely don't advertise because anyone who enjoyed it before hardly does now, and that's even before all the botting, and mass amounts of people who don't know what's going on and don't care to learn either. Sure, we can form premades and just curb stomp all day, but that - believe it or not - isn't fun. It's even less fun when the people who WERE that community are barely left, alienated and tired of not just being neglected by SE, but completely ignored when it comes to the content WE loved, and shunned and ridiculed by the rest of the playerbase all the while.

Advertising PvP on Reddit? Ha! Reddit, and this community's open hate of PvP runs rampant there. It's bad enough I've considered creating an XIV PvP subreddit, rather than having to see any and all things PvP related there get precision-strike downvoted, and ignorant ass comments being made frequently, further spreading the same misconceptions that plagued it when it WAS good and people were too busy on their bloody high horse, claiming it was bad when they didn't know shit, or likely couldn't do shit.

Let me try to remain calm in saying this, as I won't lie; every bloody word quoted above just completely pissed me off today: It's WAY too damn late to try and say something like "You want to be taken seriously as a community you need to act like it."

Where were you when they said, not suggested, SAID they were going to restrict chat?
Where were you when we were giving feedback on the 4.0 changes? Feedback that got ignored while SE claimed they "didn't get enough feedback because people were too busy with Omega Savage"?
Where are you in this current feedback thread?
Where are the guides YOU'VE written?
Hell, I've compiled and shared a concept for an open-world PvP zone for this game, that even people who don't like OWPvP seemed to like, and at most all I've seen you do is try and chime in with why it won't work. So where's YOUR idea for it?

It's way too late to point fingers and try to tell people to act like a community, especially when it doesn't seem at all like you were part of it in the first place. The amount of just. . . entirely WRONG information you've put out and I've corrected paints a pretty poor picture. Maybe you were there all that time, but what did you learn? What did you help others learn? What did YOU do to create a community? And how loudly did YOU protest when 4.0 destroyed the communities you built?

That community you're trying to mock doesn't like 4.x PvP. That community doesn't like this forced 9 button standard, and all the imbalance brought with it. That community doesn't like being ignored on issues of cheating within SE's "premier" PvP mode for going on 7 seasons now, nor all the rampant botting, which only became a problem with 4.0 and all the controversial change that came with it. That community got tired of frequently being asked for feedback by SE, then ignored completely. They got tired of brainless, TERRIBLE changes being made over and over, in an attempt to foolproof something that was never hard to learn, but people hardly even tried to. And that community barely exists anymore, all but destroyed by all this.

So don't point your finger at us and tell us to act like a community. We did, and we made it great despite all the neglect and imperfections. Then all that you would glorify and hold up as "improvements" from 4.x PvP was the goddamn calamity that destroyed it. Some of us are left rebuilding, but too much just isn't there now, from gameplay depth to the people that made it great. That you would even make such a statement shows that you not only don't see it, you're not even part of it.