1.2 Needs to fix Sentinel, Tanking, and XI Class-ism.

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Originally Posted by Anonydort

FFXI's elitism rears it's ugly head once again...

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Has nothing to do with FFXI. It's an MMO thing. As long as humans continue to play MMORPGs, "requirements" and "striving for efficiency" will always exist.

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Originally Posted by Kirith

Very simply, you don't design a skill that shaves a % of damage for whoever equips it, but one that uses the player's stats to shave a proportional amount. That way, said skill wouldn't be effective enough for mages, archers and classes without the right stats. To use that skill effectively people would need specific builds with specific classes and equipment, thus making the requirements for it too inefficient to achieve for people to blindly require others to achieve them.

tl;dr: the skill's effectiveness must be stat-dependent, not absolute, otherwise it will be required by more and more content in the future or become a development roadblock.

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sentinel shaves a % of dmg off, so the better you resistance or defense, the more it shaves off. IE people with good gear get way more benefit on it.

The damage from hellfire isnt the whole fight, its one portion of it, you can only use sentinel 15 secs out of 1 minute and 7 seconds on sub, if you increase your fire resistance drastically, you will probably gain more damage reduction over time.

I havent played it, but if in fact you can reduce the dmg by destroying more towers, then there is a DD solution as well as a defensive solution. IE instead of saving sentinel and killing one tower, save bloodrite profundity and fast cast and kill two towers.

Here is the bottom line, in this case, its not SEs fault for faulty mechanics or battle design, it is the fact that no matter what the situation is, elitists are going to try and limit people in what they can do. You cannot please these people. They put the limitations on people because they want to limit them, they want to tell people you are not hardcore enough, and we are better than you. Their very purpose is to have an eclusive and elite club, they will always find a way to exclude people based on whatever they feel like.

And in this case some of them have a point, these are hardcore people willing to do whatever it takes and spend as much time as necessary to acheive this, they want people like them playing with them. They are doing you a service by refusing you, would you really want to have to try to keep up with their level hardcoreness?

Hence why I only duo with my husband so I don't have to hear people fussing about my build....problem solved :D

However, I will have to agree, as long as people find efficient ways to do something in an MMO, it WILL be the most sought after due to it's results it produces...unfortunately. Wish that wasn't the case, but it is. In a way...I think it mimics real world scenarios...:/ and well...those aren't going to go away.

I know most of what I'm about to say has been said 1000 times.

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Originally Posted by Tibian

[B]tl;dr

Sentinel is broken. Requiring gladiator leveled to 36 for Ifrit is a broken mechanic

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It is not a requirement. All you need is the quest.

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When the servers and animation locks are fixed, I am sure this will be a thoroughly enjoyable fight.

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It's really NOT hard at all to avoid being stuck in animation lock...

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Unfortunately, you need to patch sentinel.

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Yes nerfing another part of Gladiator would be unfortunate. It would be done right stupid. You want them to change an ability so that the LinkShells you want to get in won't make that a requirement?

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The XI purist community expects everyone to level gladiator to 36 for sentinel.

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FFXI Purist? How about the smart people who know how helpful it is to have that ability? Logical thinking and wanting to have the most optimal build = getting trolled by the people who refuse to put in effort to do anything they don't want to do. I don't want to craft, I don't want to farm money... but guess what, if I want gear / materia I need to do some of these things.

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This type of gameplay is pathetic, masochistic, outrageous, and classist.

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Define: Classist
Classism is prejudice and/or discrimination on the basis of social class. It includes individual attitudes and behaviors, systems of policies and practices that are set up to benefit the upper classes at the expense of the lower classes.[1] It can also include attitudes and behavior of prejudice and discrimination by members of the lower class to members of the higher class. (SOURCE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classist)

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^Trying to stretch this definition to fit the mold of FFXIV is a bit off base.

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I have no desire to play gladiator, nor marauder, nor pugilist. I am a fully dedicated mage.

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No one is forcing you to do anything you don't want to, especially SE; that has been there motive for a lot of changes they are making and have made. It's your game, play it how you want! Just don't expect me and other people to want to play with you. If you aren't going to contribute effort to doing end-game, then why would anyone want you to join their LS?

My one and only example that I love reusing would be.... I don't want to buy new gear, I don't want to buy materia or spirit grind! But guess how many parties I'm going to get into if I'm refusing to wear the appropriate gear and using my Onion set or out-dated gear?

It's not the exact same situation as your argument but it's similar. There are things we don't want to do, but if you wish to contend in the end-game environment it's essential. I'm sure there are people who can beat Ifrit in out-dated gear, just like there are people who can beat him without Sentinel.

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"But the armory system caters to leveling multiple classes." Yes, it does, and it rightfully should. Unfortunately, when you have skills like sentinel, that make such a dramatic impact to where guilds start demanding you level this class just for that fight -- you know it needs to be patched or something needs to be fixed.

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First of all, guild? Semantics but still... this is not World of Warcraft. Sounds like you want it to be though.

Second, Sentinel is not only useful for Ifrit. I could argue the same thing about any ability. Cure / CureII / CureIII needs to be nerfed because it makes such a dramatic effect on solo leveling! The same can be said for a bunch of other skills, Second Wind, Bloodbath, Sacrifice, how about Weaponskills, how about gear?

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XIV needs to move away from this terrible terrible terrible terrible design for future content.

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You realize all melee class need self-heals for Ifrit too right? I don't want to level a mage.. but without the healing skills I will most certainly die. Especially if my lazy healer doesn't have sentinel, takes a ton of damage and ends up healing himself instead of the tank and DD's.

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I have been turned down by two linkshells who want me to have sentinel for Ifrit.

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So you didn't meet their requirements, and now you're trying to get the game changed so that you do? If you get turned down for a LS that requires you to have every class at level 50 are you going to make a post how classes should start at level 50?

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Having this 'requirement' to level multiple classes to be functional in dungeons or certain fights is ridiculous. The armory system is a perfect system to cater towards diversity and 'alternate character' play, but don't abuse it by requiring people to level.

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The armory system is one of XIV's best and most unique qualities. I means I can take the spells I enjoy the most from the classes that I want to play, and have a personalized character. If you're going to start requiring people to level against their desires it really takes away the fun of the game and further reinforces the fact that this is nothing more than a grind-fest until you have all the classes leveled to start experiencing the game.

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Again... there is no requirement here, or anywhere. I love how you praise the Armory system for allowing you to get whatever skills YOU want, but when there is something YOU don't want to get it becomes 'abusive' and 'ridiculous'. Hypocritical statement.

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You shouldn't need every single class leveled to experience end game content.

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You don't need every single class leveled to experience it. Are you going to argue next that to experience end-game you have to be level 50? Last I checked, correct as I may be mistaken, you can start doing Ifrit (hyper) as soon as you complete the prerequisite quests. Pretty sure, last time I checked, you don't have to have every single class leveled.

Conclusion, you're butt hurt.


TL;DR - OP is butthurt. If we disagree with him then we are FFXI purists / trolls / fanboys.
Logic is out of the question. Because an LS wanting competent players, skilled players, geared players, efficient players, or players who put effort into completing endgame is a bad thing.... right.....

think what he would want is either no mages to have access to the skill, or for mages to have acess to a similar skill. But honestly if such a skill exists, it should be on gladiator, and i think the option to get some value for leveling a DoW class on DoM should exist.

on a side note, i thought emulate was better, or did they nerf its effect oh well, thats what happens when they nerf something, eventually people will ask them to nerf something else.

Yep, though emulate's nerf was well deserved lol -- Nerfing Sentinel for the mere fact you don't want to level a class to use it? Undeserved.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

Great post. I could not have possibly said this better myself.

Remember when addons and voice chat didn't exist? I don't recall people having trouble beating game content then.

Hive mind creates bizarre logic bubbles in game communities. It is like RDM in XI. God forbid a RDM melees in party and yet they can solo crap that groups have trouble taking down.

What can you do though? There is no cure for stupidity.

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they definitely don't solo anything by meleeing it to death.

Killing 1 nail is the same as killing 3 nails. Killing all 4 takes hellfire to about 1200ish w/o sentinel but its better to just kill 1 and top everyone off becasue if you kill all 4 its down to the wire on time.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Yep, though emulate's nerf was well deserved lol -- Nerfing Sentinel for the mere fact you don't want to level a class to use it? Undeserved.

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For once I agree completely with Jennestia. It's ridiculous to nerf a good ability just because you're unwilling to meet an LS's standards. In XI you get left out for not having subjobs leveled, in WoW you get left out for not having the right gearscore. It sucks, yeah, but when my fun and my success is on the line, I sure as hell don't want unprepared scrubs holding me back.

No offense to anyone. It's a package deal that comes with MMOs. There are standards to meet if you wanna hang with the cool kids.

Me? I get by with the bare minimums. Aw yeah.

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Originally Posted by Demacia

For once I agree completely with Jennestia. It's ridiculous to nerf a good ability just because you're unwilling to meet an LS's standards. In XI you get left out for not having subjobs leveled, in WoW you get left out for not having the right gearscore. It sucks, yeah, but when my fun and my success is on the line, I sure as hell don't want unprepared scrubs holding me back.

No offense to anyone. It's a package deal that comes with MMOs. There are standards to meet if you wanna hang with the cool kids.

Me? I get by with the bare minimums. Aw yeah.

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In the end, it all comes down to the metrics being used to measure a person's dedication and commitment. While Sentinel can be used in this fashion, it's kinda shitty to do so, especially if it's the only odd thing out on someone's application. I don't particularly think that lacking a couple of skills on other classes but hitting all other milestones is an instant indicator that the individual applying isn't dedicated to the cause (though in the OP's case, he probably isn't dedicated).

This is kind of why I'm waiting to see the job system, since the all the Armory system did was remove class uniqueness. (for instance its not uncommon to be in a party where everybody has Cure II and Bloodbath) (or weapon-skills that can be used with any weapon, like Circle slash with a staff. lol)

Make skills over lv30 exclusive to their native class?

Kind of outrageous, I know but adding restrictions will force people to make better use of their main class's abilities instead of getting everything to 50 to become a super hybrid.

Maybe rise the slot cost of abilities from other classes?

Or just hope that the job system just solves everything lol.

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Originally Posted by Arkine

This is kind of why I'm waiting to see the job system, since the all the Armory system did was remove class uniqueness. (for instance its not uncommon to be in a party where everybody has Cure II and Bloodbath) (or weapon-skills that can be used with any weapon, like Circle slash with a staff. lol)

Make skills over lv30 exclusive to their native class?

Kind of outrageous, I know but adding restrictions will force people to make better use of their main class's abilities instead of getting everything to 50 to become a super hybrid.

Maybe rise the slot cost of abilities from other classes?

Or just hope that the job system just solves everything lol.

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theres enough customization in the armoury system on most job so that no 2 players have the same spells and abilities. Yes, theres thing that are so good you cant pass up, but in the end, there's enough space to customize and fit your play style.

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Originally Posted by Tibian

I have no desire to play gladiator, nor marauder, nor pugilist. I am a fully dedicated mage.
One of XI's worst qualities was that you had to level X job for X fight, to have X ability. Leveling those classes took months. Yes the leveling curve is easier in XIV, but no, I still don't want anything to do with gladiator, marauder, or pugilist. I don't enjoy melee classes and I want nothing to do with them.

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First of all, I don't know if sentinel needs to be adjusted or not.. And before I get too far I want to say that I agree with you that people shouldn't have to change their play-style and what makes them happy, to please others..
But I have to say that what you said about FFXI was simply untrue. No one ever had to level any jobs that they didn't want to. There was a hell of a LOT of peer pressure to though.. and it seemed most people gave in to this pressure. But I just want to say that in XI it was totally possible to play jobs and sub-jobs that you liked best and ignore that peer pressure and still get things completed just fine. I know this because I am probably one of the very few who never gave in to said peer pressure. I didn't even have too much of a problem with it. I ran into a few people here and there who tried to tell me how to play, and I ignored them and moved on and found new people who actually respected me. I never had a problem completing missions or things. There was always a way to get things done. You just had to put in more effort to figure it out sometimes.
I'm happy to say I enjoyed my whole FFXI career, never once leveling a job I didn't like or doing something I felt I "had to."

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Originally Posted by Tibian

I was denied several main missions in CoP because I didn't have the right jobs leveled or the right skills. XIV needs to move away from this terrible terrible terrible terrible design for future content.

I have been turned down by two linkshells who want me to have sentinel for Ifrit.

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Unfortunately, there will always be people like this out there. They will find out (what they consider) the best of the best and then try to demand it of others. Fortunately though, not everyone is like this, and it may take some time to find good people, but they are out there.. People who let you play how you want. People who respect each others' play-styles.

Perhaps SE will adjust sentinel, but my advice is this: Keep on playing your way. Keep on doing what you enjoy. The peer pressure can be really annoying at times, and make you wanna throw your keyboard at something.. D: But.. you never have to give in to it. There's always a way around things.

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Originally Posted by Tibian

You shouldn't need every single class leveled to experience end game content.

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Truth. You should not need it. And you do not need it. You just need to find the right people.

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Originally Posted by Arkine

This is kind of why I'm waiting to see the job system, since the all the Armory system did was remove class uniqueness. (for instance its not uncommon to be in a party where everybody has Cure II and Bloodbath) (or weapon-skills that can be used with any weapon, like Circle slash with a staff. lol)

Make skills over lv30 exclusive to their native class?

Kind of outrageous, I know but adding restrictions will force people to make better use of their main class's abilities instead of getting everything to 50 to become a super hybrid.

Maybe rise the slot cost of abilities from other classes?

Or just hope that the job system just solves everything lol.

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It should have been this way to begin w/ there is a serious lack of class identity and while the hopefully correct that w/ jobs it wont fix the situation overall.

You shouldnt need every class rank 40/50 to be able to tank efficiently on GLA or MRD and everyone shouldnt have access to so many cross class abilities such as SecondWind/BloodBath/Cure3/sac3/Sent/RAMPART/Defender 2

Hopefully w/ the recent statment on the 1.20 patch of making more class specific only actions it will force people to learn to play w/ there brains. I'd like to see alot of the Tier 2/3 abilities class only.

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Originally Posted by Nabiri

lots of text

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Your purple font hurts my eyes.

I agree with your comment(s).

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Originally Posted by RemVye

Your purple font hurts my eyes.

I agree with your comment(s).

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Apologies. D: To me the purple is dark enough. XDD *leaves this black* :x

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Originally Posted by Hikozaemon

It should have been this way to begin w/ there is a serious lack of class identity and while the hopefully correct that w/ jobs it wont fix the situation overall.

You shouldnt need every class rank 40/50 to be able to tank efficiently on GLA or MRD and everyone shouldnt have access to so many cross class abilities such as SecondWind/BloodBath/Cure3/sac3/Sent/RAMPART/Defender 2

Hopefully w/ the recent statment on the 1.20 patch of making more class specific only actions it will force people to learn to play w/ there brains. I'd like to see alot of the Tier 2/3 abilities class only.

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Then they better fix Gladiator.

Provoke is pretty bad in itself right now, low black rate, low damage... lol

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Originally Posted by Nabiri

Apologies. D: To me the purple is dark enough. XDD *leaves this black* :x

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I haz harpb0w, you haz pony... you wen

Moot point.

Once Paladin arrives, we'll have epic job abilities like AoE sentinel/rampart. We are just that awesome.

:D

You forgot the even less offense part, which is why GLA is in the current situation.

honestly sentinel is not the issue here

if somehow they came up with a system that doesn't require you to lvl other jobs for skills, well then guess what? parties will then look at the gear you have and if your gear isn't good enough, they won't let u join.

if ur not willing to put the time and effort into lvling other classes for skills, then what makes u think u'll put time and effort into getting gear/materia

i can see it now, once AF gear is released, parties/LS's will require you to have certain pieces before they decide to let you join. i dont know many LS's that are willing to carry someone through content who is just another liability

I strongly suggest not nerfing Sentinel. The OP isn't thinking about the long term consequences a nerf to Sentinel does to the GLADIATOR CLASS ITSELF. He's just thinking about the impact it has on this fight, but Sentinel is absolutely essential for a Gladiator. As one who mains Gladiator, I use it all the time and it's extremely useful in reducing incoming damage as our block rate and block skills are hella gimped right now (not to mention we're incapable of parrying). I don't fight Ifrit because I'm a casual player who only lowmans, so the impact Sentinel has on your need to take on a so-called "hardcore" fight means little to me and I'm sure quite a lot of people who aren't experiencing the Ifrit fight. Nerfing a skill because of ONE fight is a foolhardy move - almost SE-like in the way it's done (how they go from one extreme to another to "fix" classes).

There are many great suggestions to fix the issue with this fight, but nerfing Sentinel isn't one of them.

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Originally Posted by Bahn

I strongly suggest not nerfing Sentinel. The OP isn't thinking about the long term consequences a nerf to Sentinel does to the GLADIATOR CLASS ITSELF. He's just thinking about the impact it has on this fight, but Sentinel is absolutely essential for a Gladiator. As one who mains Gladiator, I use it all the time and it's extremely useful in reducing incoming damage as our block rate and block skills are hella gimped right now (not to mention we're incapable of parrying). I don't fight Ifrit because I'm a casual player who only lowmans, so the impact Sentinel has on your need to take on a so-called "hardcore" fight means little to me and I'm sure quite a lot of people who aren't experiencing the Ifrit fight. Nerfing a skill because of ONE fight is a foolhardy move - almost SE-like in the way it's done (how they go from one extreme to another to "fix" classes).

There are many great suggestions to fix the issue with this fight, but nerfing Sentinel isn't one of them.

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Nerfing doesn't have to mean reducing the percentage reduction. It could be just as simple as making sentinel gladiator/paladin only, which is probably what I would first look at doing before tweaking the Ifrit fight itself. As people, including myself, have mentioned already on this thread, the fight is doable without sentinel. The issue is that it is such a boon for having it, that itself makes it overpowered and pseudo-required.

It makes perfect sense for a tank to have this ability as it currently is, but a damage dealer or a mage? Not so much.

but mages can equip shields too..

edit: though i suppose you can make it shield only.

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Originally Posted by Nephera

but mages can equip shields too..

edit: though i suppose you can make it shield only.

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It's an GLA skill not a shield skill

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Originally Posted by RemVye

Then they better fix Gladiator.

Provoke is pretty bad in itself right now, low black rate, low damage... lol

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welp w/ that just released JPGAMES.com interview its stated that they know the problems w/ GLA and MRD being a better tank and it will be corrected in the upcoming updates and that MRD/WAR will be steered away from tanking and brought into a more HEAVY DMG job. but they have said this before then MRD became a even better tank so ill believe it when i see it.

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Originally Posted by RemVye

Then they better fix Gladiator.

Provoke is pretty bad in itself right now, low black rate, low damage... lol

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Low black rate? xD

Sorry stopped reading after the 2nd page. Takes like 3 days to get to 36... Stop crying please.
Then again maybe you are right...why would you want to level a class that has the ability to reduce damage taken on your mage. That's silly right? Ifrit or not, I don't think that would be useful at all.

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Originally Posted by Tibian

Nerfing doesn't have to mean reducing the percentage reduction. It could be just as simple as making sentinel gladiator/paladin only, which is probably what I would first look at doing before tweaking the Ifrit fight itself. As people, including myself, have mentioned already on this thread, the fight is doable without sentinel. The issue is that it is such a boon for having it, that itself makes it overpowered and pseudo-required.

It makes perfect sense for a tank to have this ability as it currently is, but a damage dealer or a mage? Not so much.

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except gla isnt the only tank, marauder has a wealth of tanking skills, as does pug, of whom half of their list skills based on having hate. or increasing defense

you really are too focused on only your own experience, the fact is classes are built around making a role from various different skills. The job system will act as an overall role guide and mechanic, but classes who purpose is to make the best use of the armory system. Some of the major balances between classes hinge on the fact that you can cross class skills.

The reality is, sentinel is a needed skill/trait that one can pick up. Its balance is in fact that anyone can use it. Dont nerf 2 classes that MUST take aoe damage, and have enmity based skills so that you feel better about there being a useful skill on a class you dont like.

It sucks how I NNEEEEEED materia on my gear to kill ifrit. I believe in all nature pure weapons. Which havent been tainted by foul materia melding. Please nerf materia system and ifrit and change my diaper SE. FF3 or w/e this materia system originated from is a masochistic way of strengthening your character. i just want a wooden stick n some cloth n beat ifrit with my TRUE SKILL!

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Originally Posted by Physic

except gla isnt the only tank, marauder has a wealth of tanking skills, as does pug, of whom half of their list skills based on having hate. or increasing defense

you really are too focused on only your own experience, the fact is classes are built around making a role from various different skills. The job system will act as an overall role guide and mechanic, but classes who purpose is to make the best use of the armory system. Some of the major balances between classes hinge on the fact that you can cross class skills.

The reality is, sentinel is a needed skill/trait that one can pick up. Its balance is in fact that anyone can use it. Dont nerf 2 classes that MUST take aoe damage, and have enmity based skills so that you feel better about there being a useful skill on a class you dont like.

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Then marauder and pugilist can receive their own unique abilities that cater to their class, rather than just having to level sentinel. This also creates class diversity and prevents unnecessary leveling.

It appears most of the pugilist gear has a lot of evasion attached to it. If this is the case, give pugilists/monk some type of evasion boosting move, unique only to pugilists, that makes them dodge the next three physical hits.

As far as marauder goes, I believe SE wants to make marauder more of an off-tank and damage dealer together. In which case, they shouldn't have an ability equal to or superior than sentinel. Maybe give them a slightly reduced version. Again, only unique to marauder/warrior.

SE has a plethora of options to look at before even thinking about tweaking the Ifrit mechanics. I think 1.20 has a great opportunity to create class identity, and remove the insane barrier that has been created by requiring unrelated classes to be leveled.

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The job system will act as an overall role guide and mechanic.

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This may be true, and it could actually eliminate all of these issues. We don't know. For now we can only give SE feedback on what is currently implemented.

They haven't announced the 1.20 class balances (which I figured they would have released by now based on previous producer letter timelines), and they haven't announced how jobs will "really" work.

As it is now, sentinel is a huge barrier for every single new player who wants to come into XIV at 2.0 and say "I want to start raiding once I hit level 50." Only the stark and painful reality is "Sorry, you need to level your gladiator to 36 to get sentinel before we will let you into the linkshell." This person then has a high risk of being disgusted at the game and quitting.

pretty sure if your a mage and don't have sentinel you're screwed.. >_>

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Originally Posted by Tibian

Then marauder and pugilist can receive their own unique abilities that cater to their class, rather than just having to level sentinel. This also creates class diversity and prevents unnecessary leveling.

It appears most of the pugilist gear has a lot of evasion attached to it. If this is the case, give pugilists/monk some type of evasion boosting move, unique only to pugilists, that makes them dodge the next three physical hits.

As far as marauder goes, I believe SE wants to make marauder more of an off-tank and damage dealer together. In which case, they shouldn't have an ability equal to or superior than sentinel. Maybe give them a slightly reduced version. Again, only unique to marauder/warrior.

SE has a plethora of options to look at before even thinking about tweaking the Ifrit mechanics. I think 1.20 has a great opportunity to create class identity, and remove the insane barrier that has been created by requiring unrelated classes to be leveled.


This may be true, and it could actually eliminate all of these issues. We don't know. For now we can only give SE feedback on what is currently implemented.

They haven't announced the 1.20 class balances (which I figured they would have released by now based on previous producer letter timelines), and they haven't announced how jobs will "really" work.

As it is now, sentinel is a huge barrier for every single new player who wants to come into XIV at 2.0 and say "I want to start raiding once I hit level 50." Only the stark and painful reality is "Sorry, you need to level your gladiator to 36 to get sentinel before we will let you into the linkshell." This person then has a high risk of being disgusted at the game and quitting.

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sentinel blocks all types of dmg, it fills the gap for an evasion tank of non dodgable skills, But the idea here is, you dont really like the armory system. Yes they could make sentinel class exclusive and then give redundant sentinel like skills to other tank classes, but that doesnt really make sense with the idea of the armory.

The whole idea is, take the skills you like from many classes and build your version of whatever you want to play. The armory says you are SUPPOSED to be better at tanking on your con, because you leveled gladiator. Its like the whole point. Why shouldnt you get access to a higher level skill for playing a different job. Its a skill one learns after being a defensive class for a long time, you dont want to be a defensive class, so you lose out on a defensive ability, it makes perfect sense.

The way elitists will make you feel, is irrelevant, elitist will demand unreasonable things of you, they will tell you need X gear, or X materia, or they will straight up tell you to level a new job. You cant build your whole game around the min max of elitists, it will kill every ounce of fun in the game.

Just be glad it isnt actually necessary to win.

out of curiousity, any body try diversion or decoy?

Sentinel is not needed. I have done a plentiful amount of Ifrit fights with out on my lancer and found myself with 600 HP every time inferno was executed. We kept our members fully buffed with Protect Shell and Stoneskin at all times and even made sure we were capped @ full HP before the nuke was dropped. Instead of Sentinel I also used Defender and Obsess which are skills easily obtainable as a MRD and GLD at low levels. I also have materia fully slotted and to be quite honest materia helps significantly.

Unlike FF11 where you NEEDED a sub job, in FF14 you can CHOOSE to level a class to obtain X ability to HELP and or further strengthen your class. But in the end, yes it is still beneficial to have some abilities from other classes and YES you will have other abilities from other classes over time which will be most useful to your class of choice.

Again, a mage, I'm pretty sure NEEDS sentinel as their HP pool isn't that of a DD's

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Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker

Again, a mage, I'm pretty sure NEEDS sentinel as their HP pool isn't that of a DD's

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you are mistaken, use stoneskin and rampart

In XI, you needed everything 37+ for sub jobs pre 75+. I don't get this thread.

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Originally Posted by ApplePie

In XI, you needed everything 37+ for sub jobs pre 75+. I don't get this thread.

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So because FFXI was like that it's okay? 'k.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raijin

you are mistaken, use stoneskin and rampart

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I've tried rampart, no dice. I'll try it again though to see if your statement has validity .

Some of you guys should go play Pacman if you dont like challenging Games. Oh wait.. Pacman is prolly to hard... <_<

This is prolly better:

http://www.mabuhaynet.com/games/easiest-game.php