[spoilers]3.2 MSQ Discussion/Reaction thread

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

If they plan to go down the FF6 route, though, one has to wonder why they introduced a completely new Emperor...especially if he's just going to be betrayed and killed off. I suspect that there may be a twist. Regula could very well be Tempered by the Triad...or driven insane by Allagan technology.

---

In the case of the FF6 route, Regula would be Gestahl.

Who is Kefka then?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KarstenS

In the case of the FF6 route, Regula would be Gestahl.

Who is Kefka then?

---

(Hopes they are wrong)

Assuming they even use kefka, or not try something new...

Wouldn't the most likekly candidates be either Unukalhai, or the new garlean emperor?

Unikalhai has the same essential flag as Urianger. He won't be going anywhere while he's holding on to those EX Primal unlocks. Makes me wonder how Eldibus could possibly betray us now that one of his servants (or he himself in disguise) is a permanent fixture in the Rising Stones.

I'm hoping they don't copy FFVI too much more, actually, but if anyone's getting shoved off the edge of Azus Lla, it'll be Regula so we can keep a pattern of one Legatus per game.

On one hand, you're right. Totally-not-Elidibus-or-his-servant is essential at least until 3.4.

On the other hand, I'm a pessimist and I think SE is going to tear Cutest Ascian from me. What you're overlooking is that SE is cheating.

Unukalhai is writing a book about our exploits, it's sitting right there. And the Ex primals? They're just simulations, triggered by a Tomestone. He could just put the Tomestone in his little book as a gift to us once he's gone. In fact, the book itself is precisely the reason why I do think he's going to kick the bucket or leave us.

I like your option better, though. Please be right.

The final one can be left after the last normal version, or if they go to 3.5 thats when he ends up dieing/leaving.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

-snip-

---

Honestly, I think this might be for the best. Hopefully they'll do it with every character from now on - not because they need to get rid of a character but...because at some point, in the future, it might make sense to do just that. I don't really like the amount of NPC's that 'cannot' be killed just because they happen to be tied to a quest. I feel like something like the ending to 2.0 may have been much longer lasting and in-depth had it involved a different set of characters.

I agree that less plot armor for the 1.0 characters would be nice, and absolutely agree about how things could have potentially gone differently in 2.55, but on the other, it's Cutest Ascian. I can't just give him up so easily.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fenral

Unikalhai has the same essential flag as Urianger.

---

Does this actually matter? Kidibus hasn't shown himself in the main scenario, has he? He can show up in the Rising Stones for anyone starting the Triad quest after 3.5, and disappear in the conclusion. Since he never showed up in the main scenario, it wouldn't be that jarring for him to be there after we've dealt with whatever we're going to deal with beyond Nidhogg. Ultimately no different than the Summoner questline; The final quest can just make reference to the main scenario, the same as the Twelfth Chalice Ascian referenced Lahabrea.

Given he is part of his own questline, Kidibus can expire at the end of it. Urianger is immune to such things because he is part of several questlines, if they kill him off in the main scenario he'd still have to be there for Primals/Coil. Though they could still write him out, and not in the way Nanamo was written out. A Last Verse quest, which ties together the main scenario, Primals, and Coil could spell doom for Urianger. Future main scenario content would then just not include him; If you've yet to do the Primal story, he is still there, but he isn't in any of the new main scenario quests because reasons. They just need to make a concluding questline to tie everything together. Unless I'm forgetting something though, Kidibus is essentially the same as G'raha, sadly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

Honestly, I think this might be for the best.

---

Seeings as the alternative seems to be using a proxy questgiver and shoving all related characters in a box, dropping it six-feet under and throwing away the key the second the questline ends, I think they just need to be less deathy in general and stop seeing it as their one source of dramatic impact. Mostly that's the players calling for blood, but still. There are other cards that can be played for drama, and the death card has not been used responsibly.

I was happy seeing Briardien show up again in another questline, and needless to say there are a lot of characters like that with potential outside their origin story. (Was not happy to see Krile magically able to use Allagan tech like it's no big deal, unless that's foreshadowing a meaningful connection to our long-forgotten other Student of Baldesion...)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nalien

Does this actually matter?

---

Krile, Y'shtola, and Urianger are in that quest as well, so the Hard Mode Primals come to mind. I suppose it's 50/50, honestly, between getting folded back in before the finale or simply buried in a ditch and forgotten like it never happened, in which case Cutest Ascian is yet another "major" character doomed to be completely irrelevant to anything, never to be referenced when we start asking Urianger what he's been up to with Eldibus.

Makes me wonder why they insist on making new characters for these stories at all. Binding Coil is still the best raid story.

I actually have a bit more hope for Kidibus, the way the dialog has so far been written I could see Urianger and Elidibus simple mentioning an apprentice, with quest dialog perhaps altering depending on progression in that storyline. Events are certainly more closely woven together than previous main and side quests. Nobody in the main scenario cared about Crystal Tower, nor Extreme Primals, nor Bahamut (except Alphinaud, who cheated). This time though, the main scenario mentions the Triad, that has me slightly more hopeful that this time, at the very least, we'll seem some different dialog. They seem to be written as one plot, split for gameplay purposes, rather than written as entirely independent plots. Can't imagine it will be perfect, but it'll be better than the mess 2.# ultimately was.

Really though, a Last Verse style quest fixes everything. We can have a quest where we tell the remaining Scions what happened in Coil, and everyone pays their respects and we even tell Tiamat. We can have a quest where we use knowledge from Azys Lla to force open the door to Crystal Tower... SE just needs to get off this ridiculous notion that everything needs to be easily accessible... It's ruining the game, in more ways than one...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nalien

Really though, a Last Verse style quest fixes everything.

---

I'd like to see that at the end of 3.0. Since 4.0 won't have a continuity lockout, the end of 3.X can be a special reward for people who have stuck it out for all these years through all these various threads. (As long as they don't make the Beast Tribe stuff a stealth requirement that people won't be able to get through in time.)

I think the only raid we have that actually has no connection to the MSQ is Shadow of Mhach. More like that would be great: actually self-contained and exploring parts of the Lore the MSQ has never touched on, not just something potentially important that Cid will forget next time he drinks himself blind. And no more pretending members of Allagan royalty can be disposable in an ongoing story involving the MF-ing Garlean Empire.

I wonder if Beast Tribes are the reason they're reluctant to give us anything like that, actually... We got a Last Verse style quest with them, and it was amazing(ly hilarious), but I wonder how many people have completed it... If that is their justification though, I'm even more annoyed... "Well not many people did the quest before, so we'd rather spend development time on stuff like Lords of Verminion instead"

They don't even need to roll together every quest, just the ones with obvious relevance to MSQ characters and plot points (which right now means Binding Coil, CT, Alexander, and the various HM/EX primals including the Triad, none of which are real-time sensitive). As a writer myself, I just can't understand why they try so hard to make it seem like they don't want all these lines to end up connecting back together later. Even if they're making it up as they go, Chris Carter-style, that's not how you write a Myth Arc.

The Triad questline is so odd. SE has so much potential with it that I will be immensely disappointed if they squander it and don't at least require it for the MSQ in 3.5.

It's directly a side effect of the MSQ, since we're dealing with fallout of Lahabrea and Thordan's attempt at awakening the Triad and Elidibus fixing that mess. Why would such an important plotline that it was the entirety the focus of our final dungeon and battle in 3.0 be tossed to the side and relegated as worthless come 4.0? You don't just leave your climax and a primary story point to a set of side quests that are never mentioned again. Especially if Regula and the Garleans become more involved.

Even ignoring my bias for Unukalhai, Regula is a voiced character. If he is killed off in the side plot, what will the people who only did the MSQ think? He would have randomly just disappeared off the side of Eorzea. And those Garleans that killed Ysayle? What are they still doing there? People who ignore it will never know.

In 3.0, the Dragon questline in the MSQ was cleaned up a lot more nicely than this plotlines was. At least it had something of a conclusion.

I just cannot fathom tying up loose ends in such a manner. The contents of the quest are not something you can put in a box and throw away. That is, as Fenral says, terrible storytelling.

It's still a little early for unbridled rage, but past precedents have not been stellar. Unless, of course, it turns out that Nero's last scene was about him deciding to use G'raha's seal on the Tower to prove his superiority over Allag, and he's going to return with my favorite Allagan in tow sometime in 4.0.

But I stopped holding my breath for that a long time ago.

I think it's just in the nature of MMO's for intriguing plot points to be built up and then...forgotten. Granted, FFXIV handles storytelling better than most MMO's out there but it's pretty jarring when the likes of Hildibrand get so much time and attention whilst other more important characters essentially just vanish without a trace.

I didn't see the reply, I apologize.

No, I'm not really intending to attack SE with that comment. You're right, after all, there's still time and it may yet be integrated into the MSQ - it certainly deserves to be. Maybe even we'll get to keep our pet Ascian.

That being said, Theodric, when XI returned us to the Phoenix plot point in Rhapsodies. . .well, let's just say that it was probably better when it didn't. A lot of the time lore in games and literature is more interesting when you do know less about them, so sometimes keeping things forgotten, so to speak, is for the better. In XIV, this actually happened with Ishgard for me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

I think it's just in the nature of MMO's for intriguing plot points to be built up and then...forgotten. Granted, FFXIV handles storytelling better than most MMO's out there but it's pretty jarring when the likes of Hildibrand get so much time and attention whilst other more important characters essentially just vanish without a trace.

---

Funny you say that. 3,2 barely has Hildibrand as a footnote; it only gives him TWO quests, which amount to nothing more than "HEY KIDS! REMEMBER HIM!?"

Wait, Hildibrand was in 3.2? All I remember is a teaser for Vivi (sorry, Gigi), and Ser Chariberts (?) student not getting nearly enough comedy out of that fact...

Not going to read through the entire thread but I will share my thoughts on 3.2 and what happened and my thoughts.


Dragonsong War: I appreciated the second fortemps son (I can never remember his name) finally being forced to grow up and the display of the other citizens of Ishgard that aren't willing to let the differences with the dragon's slide either. Nid/Esti was pretty awesome to with the eyes growing out of his arms but I was surprised that Vidofnir survived until I realized that she's a part of the Vath storyline and as such she needs to survive as they wrote her in to the quests and she was protected by plot armor.

The grand melee was interesting and I enjoyed the fight against Raubhan, it also showed an interesting aspect of the growth of the WoL, they showed him to be a badass warrior even with only one arm, he casually swat Aymeric aside after all and then we beat him down. I didn't exactly appreciate having to fight my GC from my character's perspective but the whole GC affiliation I feel has been underutilized in most cases, it's rather disappointing tbh.

The Sephirot storyline was interesting but I don't think it should have been relegated to a side story, it's the Warring Triad, portrayed as like... some of the most powerful beings in history and fighting them is strictly optional in this patch. Though I guess it's possible it could end up as a required quest to complete the main story later on kind of like the killing the three primals at level 50 in an 8man.

Hildibrand, I only have one word for it: MOAR.

As far as the masked man with Papalymo and Yda, I think it's Ilberd and I really hope I get a chance to smack him around soon. I feel like the WoL owes him a firm beating followed by a few healing spells so we can beat him in to the dirt a second time.

On the Triad, it'll probably be like the first three Hard Mode primals in that you don't need to do it NOW, but you will need it at some point LATER to continue the current 3.x MSQ. Personally I'm thinking we'll beat all the Triad, then Regula will end up waking up there worshipers just enough to start summoning them back and he abosrbs their aether. In his new mad power he attempts to kill the Emperor....and in a reversal from the VI version instead gets killed himself with whatever the Emperor's new toy getting ALL that aether he just collected, thus having a (weakened) Triad. Our actions, both in defeating the Triad originally and probably stopping the Triad from regaining to that point either before or after Regula's death means the Empire won't have their full power, but still not good.

I'm still not sure about the Triad... I expect 3.5 to have a four stage fight, with the first three stages mirroring the Triad, ending on a Dancing Mad copy. Who will fill those lofty shoes is another question, though. Regula is the obvious candidate, given the example set by Nael (and Gaius), but that seems far too obvious... It's a nice reference, but it might be better to deviate from it now, else future plots will just have no surprises; "Oh look, the VIIIth Legion, guess we're in for a plot about Time Kompression", as much as I enjoy that kind of reference, they should probably tone it down somewhat... They're already stuck when it comes to the IIIrd Legion, given we have that plot already, though given the Gilded Magitek Armor, I expect IIIrd Legion could end up as more of a Goldor reference...

As much as I'd like a Dancing Mad Trial, I kind of hope the Triad is just a red herring... We stop them, nobody absorbs any of them, but Regula runs off with the containment technology and perhaps some of the Triads devout in stasis, leaving it open for a future plot with Regula. I do kind of hope he isn't just 3.0s Legate... Still keep the same general plot many speculate going with him, just don't condense it into a single expansion... Have Regula annoy us through 3.0, then have him show up in 4.0 and surprise us by casting magic, that would be a much more fitting reference than having him suddenly be insane by 3.5. Set him up with 3.0, watch his sanity slip over 4.0, then get ready for the ride of your life in 5.0. Can we have a persistent Legate? Would be nice for them not to feel like monster of the week level threats...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nalien

They're already stuck when it comes to the IIIrd Legion, given we have that plot already, though given the Gilded Magitek Armor, I expect IIIrd Legion could end up as more of a Goldor reference...

---

Nero van Scaeva, IIIrd Legion Legatus? Pretty please? (Personally, I'm hoping for Hein to show up as a slightly less boss-monster clone of Amon. There's still time.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fenral

Nero van Scaeva, IIIrd Legion Legatus? Pretty please? (Personally, I'm hoping for Hein to show up as a slightly less boss-monster clone of Amon. There's still time.)

---

That's an interesting thought, actually... How often do these positions get filled?

Has the VIIth and XIVth Legion just been written off? Does VIIth Legion have a new Legate with mommy issues? Would a new XIVth Legate be sent in to pick up the pieces in Eorzea?

Know what I want at the end of 3.55? A shot of Varis and all his Legates. Don't have to throw all of them at me in 4.0, I just want to see them, even just silhouettes will do. Let me know the true threat the Empire poses. I should definitely tone down my hopes though, Thordan had twelve knights, and... Well, only four or so got anything remotely close to characterization... Even Regula is pretty devoid of character at the moment, at least he got the running away aspect of Kefka down, though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nalien

Wait, Hildibrand was in 3.2? All I remember is a teaser for Vivi (sorry, Gigi), and Ser Chariberts (?) student not getting nearly enough comedy out of that fact...

---

Oh boy Cyr. He's amazing already.

It's a bit of a disappointment that the inquisition is basically being turned into a joke - quite literally - but at the same time, there's potential for hilarity with a buffoon zealot.

That being said, the Triad being a red herring would basically negate all of post-Vault 3.0, because that was the point of Thordan entering Azys Lla. I really hope they don't go that way. What's the point of throwing away 1/3 of your expansion's plot? lol, just a joke guys, nothing really going to happen, see you next expansion!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

It's a bit of a disappointment that the inquisition is basically being turned into a joke - quite literally - but at the same time, there's potential for hilarity with a buffoon zealot.

---

Should we expect Spanish Inquisition jokes?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

Should we expect Spanish Inquisition jokes?

---

That's what I'm hoping for. Er, Ishgardian Inquisition.

Well, we've already slain Sephirot and nobody seemed to absorb anything (Kidibus might, though, hope Krile was keeping an eye on him). So, the Triads entire threat at this point remains in the stasis bound followers Allag kept, and they ain't going anywhere.

Way I see it, they can either blow through the entire FFVI reference by 3.5, and it will likely be awesome, or they can extend it out across another expansion or two, and it will be even more awesome. Given how utterly little characterization Regula has received thus far, I'd much rather they draw it out. Make him likable by 3.5, rather than killing him off come 3.5. Just have him return to Garlemald with the technology to contain and harness Primals, with some of the Triads followers in tow, and you've got the perfect set up for a future sh*tstorm featuring Regula and the Triad.

Essentially, do with Regula and the Triad what has been done with the Ascians Elidibus and Zodiark. Introduced fairly early on, kept around and relevant for much longer. Red herring was perhaps the wrong term to use, I want Regula to essentially be Kefka (in the same way Nael was Sephiroth), I just don't want it to be a simple matter of; 3.2 Fiend, 3.3 Demon, 3.4 Goddess, 3.5 Kefka, 4.0 none of this matters.

I've been meaning to check the Triad statues, but keep forgetting. Has anyone noticed any changes/ difference in them post-sephirot?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by myahele

I've been meaning to check the Triad statues, but keep forgetting. Has anyone noticed any changes/ difference in them post-sephirot?

---

I checked, and I think the new change is the slash in the chest. I looked at before photos and there wasn't one there before.

3.2 was disappointing, but at least we're getting actual emotions now and more actions very excited to see how 3.3 will play out for WoD since the disappointing encounter where the WoL all but sits on the ground while everybody else defends them.

I seem to be the only one reading Thancred's comments not so much as heading his own way but to actually point out that everyone has been basically been using the WoL as a gun (and by extension the Scions) and maybe it's time for them to start doing things for themselves.

Where is Midgardsormr? A lot of talk but so far all we've gotten is a free ride. I think 3.3 might involve Midgardsormr and Hraesvelgr passively find a solution with the Nidhogg problem which will likely climax into a very vault-like death scene with Estinien or Aymeric which will likely end up with a Alphinaud breakdown.

#1 hope for 3.3 is a cutscene where I get to knock darklander down a peg.

Eh, 3.3 seems like it's primarily going to be about the dragons, I wouldn't hold your breath for more of the WoDs in the main plot until at least 3.4, 3.5 more realistically. SE's playing the long game with them; remember that Elidibus was introduced in 2.1 and he hasn't even played an active role with our character outside of one scene until now.

I'm also in the camp that believes we're finally going to see a return of Hraesvelgr in 3.3. Middy though? Who knows - is he even still in our head or did he leave when he 'grew up' and declared us worthy of our title? This doesn't seem to be the case, since he was with us in the ARF.

He probably went back to Silvertear after making sure things in Ishgard went smoothly. That is his primary purpose, after all, he just can't go on adventures whenever he wants. I'm not sure he'll directly interfere with Nidhogg, even if Nidhogg directly calls upon him again, given Middy's seen what he's become.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

Eh, 3.3 seems like it's primarily going to be about the dragons, I wouldn't hold your breath for more of the WoDs in the main plot until at least 3.4, 3.5 more realistically. SE's playing the long game with them; remember that Elidibus was introduced in 2.1 and he hasn't even played an active role with our character outside of one scene until now.

---

Calling it. Final Fantasy XIV Expansion: Reflections

To Nalien: I agree that those followers that Krile and Unukalhai left behind are definitely just screaming of being mentioned later. They just left them in stasis like that! That can't be particularly smart when the Garleans are literally right there. That feels like a pretty big oversight, even if only from Unukalhai's part.

Gameplay-wise, considering how much moving around the last phase of Sephirot Ex takes, I'm not looking forward to healing any battle with all three of the Triad at once. What a nightmare.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

Calling it. Final Fantasy XIV Expansion: Reflections

---

Now featuring the moon! Please, SE. Please.

Oh boy oh boy. I'm stuck working on Saturday and am so bored that I'm writing up some copypasta of the dialogue implying Elidibus wants the Triad dealt with, because even after everything flat out hitting us on the head with the Unukalhai foreshadowing, there are people who still doubt it.

3.0 Unukalhai's Introduction:
Urianger: Rest assured he is not our enemy. For the time being, at least.
Why would some innocent little child be our enemy any time at all?

3.1 Eli: Our fates were ordained long ago, Archon. The Garleans are no exception. Nor the Triad. You know what must be done.
Proof of: Elidibus wants the Triad dealt with. Right from his mouth. Not even hidden in flowery, fancy words.

After this cutscene, Urianger in the Sands mentions fighting our fate of inevitable destruction. And, oh boy, look at that, Urianger is out helping us in Azys Lla next patch.
This is also related to Unukalhai saying we were only fulfilling our fate by offing Thordan.

3.2 Cutest Ascian:
- The ignorant meddling of the Empire will serve only to hasten the eikons' awakening, and it is my master's desire that the Triad be dispatched before imperial forces delve too deeply.

- He's-really-not-an-Ascian-we-swear:
Your concern for my sanity is touching─but unnecessary. Suffice it to say, I am in no danger of falling under the eikon's sway.

Urianger spouting Elidibus quotes:
3.0 - After all, the matter doth pertain to the very fate of this star.

This is most interesting for me, considering it's relevant to both our character and the Ascians:
Unu 3.2 - There is no power more fearsome than that born of unconditional faith and unbending ideal.

And finally, plugging my own theories:
3.0 Unukalhai - And yet, were the Warring Triad to be released into the world, unimaginable destruction would ensue.

Wouldn't it be interesting if we find out we are helping the Ascians in some way via the death of the Triad cause since their power is so great they could destroy both Hydaelyn and Zodiark or something of the sort? Like the enemy of my enemy is my friend sort of thing?

That's my theory on what's going on - the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

I've posted my Elidibus/Triad theories in so many times at this point that I don't think I need to restate it, but I do think Zodiark needs Hydaelyn to continue existing (just as Hydaelyn couldn't completely destroy Zodiark), hence Elidibus doing what Elidibus does.

We may still end up at odds with Eldibus down the line, when we discover his goal is to perpetuate the Astral/Umbral cycle indefinitely to the benefit (and perpetuation) of both our gods, opting instead to merge Hydaelyn and Zodiark (essentially obliterating both) and end the cycle for good. Just a hunch.

Yeah, while as much as I may hope otherwise, I do think our alliance with Second Best Ascian is a temporary one. He serves his master and we serve ours, we want to see the world continue in its current state and he seemingly wishes to return it to how he believes it should be, which are likely mutually exclusive.

I obviously wouldn't be opposed to a plot twist where we are, indeed, allies permanently due to whatever strange circumstance, but I don't think SE is going to go that direction with the story.

Bonus fun quote time, featuring 2.1 Elidibus:
Lahabrea is wrong about a great many things.

Wondering if anyone else has thought this. But after looking at Unukalhai's boots, they remind me alot of Alphinaud's. Which got me thinking....

Could Unukalhai be Allisaie in disguise? It would explain the history with the Garleans. Alot of Krile's assessment of Unukalhai also fits with this statement, as well as the fact that Lousoix's theme is playing during the scene. It would also explain Allisaie's accidental spying on Urianger and Elidibus at the end of 3.1...

Anyhow, just curious to see if this is a road that others might have considered as well.

Wouldn't her ears stick out from the hood? There isn't any on the character model and other characters refer to said character as a "he" unless Allasaie can suddenly change her voice on a whim.