People will complain about any and every change, and ignore any logic behind said change simply because they don't like it. It is the nature of this community.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roll
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10-20-2011, 04:01 AMTsuga
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10-20-2011, 04:37 AMAamesxDavidTotally agree. I don't fault SE throwing it in as a quick fix. But if we're in this for the long haul, through major changes that fundamentally alter gameplay, I think we can do better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsuga
The balance thing.. again, fine as a quick fix for balance, but just gimp it for inappropriate classes/levels. There's no need to balance the game for people who are equipping things for purely aesthetic reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsuga
How about "Now that I am the appropriate class/level, this gear will finally benefit me!"? I mean, are you equipping for stats or looks? Given your apparent contempt for people who want to equip things for aesthetic reasons, isn't the fact that you're getting good stats from it more important? And if so, what's the difference between my example and yours?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsuga
You could very well be right about that, but people becoming complacent with something doesn't make it the best system. And if we still have some combination of required and favored gear (as is my understanding), I think which gear follows which system will seem arbitrary and still be frustrating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsuga
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10-20-2011, 05:04 AMAamesxDavidYeah, there probably would be a good amount of that.. but I think it's hard to say right now. Most of the (real) issues with the optimal system seem to stem from the confusion over whether a piece of gear works better than another - and it's a totally legitimate complaint, because it is confusing, and it does affect gameplay. With that cleared up, I think it'll make any complaints about what isn't favored far less legitimate, and I'll be the one "Like"ing the posts saying "stop complaining".Quote:
Originally Posted by RemVye
Anyway, thanks for being one of the few who actually seem to listen. -
10-20-2011, 05:17 AMTsugaI don't disagree with you that there are probably more unique, or interesting solutions. However this game has all ready tried to innovate in so many areas, and failed. What this game needs is to shake of the reputation that it is full of systems that are flawed, and thus make it a broken game. According to the producer, this system was flawed to the point that it would have been too difficult to try to integrate into the future plans for content in this game. According to a majority of the player base it was flawed, as shown when we voted yes to revamping the system. I think that this game needed to return to MMO and RPG roots in some areas for reasons of balance, and accessibility, and this is one of those instances.Quote:
Originally Posted by AamesxDavid
Yoshida is quoted as saying that he is not aiming to "reinvent the wheel". He's here to fix this game, and make it marketable. Sometimes that means sacrificing what may have turned into a better idea with more time and manpower.
Sure, that may work. But that would also require more time, and more variables for the devs to deal with. It is clear that it was more of a hassle to deal with than it was worth, and so Yoshida posed the question to us "do you guys even like this system?". Most of us said no.Quote:
The balance thing.. again, fine as a quick fix for balance, but just gimp it for inappropriate classes/levels. There's no need to balance the game for people who are equipping things for purely aesthetic reasons.
I have no problem with anyone equipping gear for looks. I've never said I have a problem with that. What I have a problem with is over-complicating what should be one of the most easy to pick up, streamlined, and balanced systems in the game so that a small group people can play dress up.Quote:
How about "Now that I am the appropriate class/level, this gear will finally benefit me!"? I mean, are you equipping for stats or looks? Given your apparent contempt for people who want to equip things for aesthetic reasons, isn't the fact that you're getting good stats from it more important? And if so, what's the difference between my example and yours?
Also, having gear at a restricted level fosters milestones in the same way that learning skills at a certain level fosters milestones. Or being able to quest for jobs at a certain level functions as a milestone. Or being able to participate in a certain quest at a certain level functions as a milestone.
It is a carrot to dangle in front of players, and that is a good thing for an MMO because it encourages people to play, and it gives you a reason to continue leveling.
I'm not saying the system is perfect, but I am saying that it is less complicated than favored gear, and so it is more user friendly. I'm saying that it is a system that is easier to balance for future content. I'm saying that it is a step in the right direction to repairing this game, and attracting new players to it.Quote:
You could very well be right about that, but people becoming complacent with something doesn't make it the best system. And if we still have some combination of required and favored gear (as is my understanding), I think which gear follows which system will seem arbitrary and still be frustrating.
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10-20-2011, 06:36 AMAamesxDavidAnd while I understand that returning to the roots may be the easiest way, and fine as a temporary solution, it would still be nice to see innovation there. I think the system had promise, and was held back by execution - as many, many things were at launch. If that means going back to a tried and true system, then fine. I'd just like to keep in mind the aspects of the system that did (or could) work. Not now, not in the next patch, but maybe 2.0?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsuga
It may be unprovable speculation at this point, but at that point, the question might as well have been "would you rather keep this system you don't really understand or have one that you already understand?" I don't blame anyone for saying they didn't like that system, I just don't think the freedom it allowed was the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsuga
In that case, I guess you don't mean it to, butQuote:
Originally Posted by Tsuga
sounds pretty contemptuous. I understand not wanting to complicate the system, though - I don't like the current favored system, I just see a few virtues in it that I'd prefer to stay in place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsuga
Having an already understood may be a selling point in certain cases, but I think having a unique, easily-understandable system is a better one. I don't think it's good enough to rely on previous systems whenever something new doesn't immediately work out. I know you're not saying that, so I don't mean to imply that you are. I just want to steer clear of generalizations like "this system is bad and that one is good", and instead pick out individual aspects of a system that work or don't work. FFXIV 2.0 has a lot to make up for to a lot of people, and that's going to mean having uniqueness with certain standard systems - the best of both worlds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsuga
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10-20-2011, 06:48 AMTsugaLike I said, I don't have a problem with customizing looks, and wearing what you want. I just don't like the idea that the entire system should revolve around that.Quote:
Originally Posted by AamesxDavid
Gear accessed being staggered throughout the game is something that most people do not complain about as being "cookie cutter" in RPGs. Every RPG prevents you from accessing, or wearing certain gear until it is balanced for the player to wear it. The one exception I can think of is Dark Souls.Quote:
Having an already understood may be a selling point in certain cases, but I think having a unique, easily-understandable system is a better one. I don't think it's good enough to rely on previous systems whenever something new doesn't immediately work out. I know you're not saying that, so I don't mean to imply that you are. I just want to steer clear of generalizations like "this system is bad and that one is good", and instead pick out individual aspects of a system that work or don't work. FFXIV 2.0 has a lot to make up for to a lot of people, and that's going to mean having uniqueness with certain standard systems - the best of both worlds.
I see your point that a "unique" or "different" idea can be a good selling point. I just do not expect the dev team to reinvent the basics of how an RPG works. I am willing to accept the middle ground that they have given us - that being gear that is wearable by everyone, but is not something you'll want to challenge Ifrit in, and gear that you're locked into, but is what instances, boss fights, classes, jobs, and materia will be balanced around. -
10-20-2011, 12:28 PMellohwell
If you're getting a harsh penalty for wearing something far outside optimal range, and also a slight penalty for wearing something outside of favoured class, then I think that is balanced enough already just by having such penalties. Therefore, I think the dev's excuse that it is for balance reasons is just... well... a lie. If I may be so frank.
A mage can equip a 5-slotted materia piece which is better than every heavy plate armour, so how is letting the mage wear plate armour with a slight penalty imbalanced? Materia is ten times as imbalanced compared to the optimal/favoured system. And I don't see them removing that from the game.
Just because something is a legacy from the launch period, doesn't mean it's bad. -
10-20-2011, 01:25 PMReaujien
I'd rather keep "optimal rank" gear for "vanity-type" gear - you know, things you wouldn't actually use for battle/craft/gathering.
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10-20-2011, 02:34 PMellohwellThere's no point even scaling "Vanity Gear" because by definition it's useless anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaujien
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10-20-2011, 06:41 PMEnma
I hope that this confusing situation is only temporary, because of the new and old recipes still live together... Maybe this will be fixed or corrected in 1.20.
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10-20-2011, 06:45 PMellohwell"Fixing" and "correcting" hopefully doesn't mean "restricting"Quote:
Originally Posted by Enma
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10-21-2011, 12:49 AMTivonna
I a agree with this somewhat. The restrictions can be a bit daunting in certain situations especially with the economy in hell atm. I find a mix would probably better. Awesome or quested gear should be restricted.
Thinking of it this way you can wear your dad's shirt or a suit of armor but you would look foolish and it would be cumbersome in battle. Penalties on the gear might be better for alot of the lower level stuff as well. I can see the higher stuff being restricted... -
10-21-2011, 01:24 AMGathYou don't like to do this?Quote:
Originally Posted by ellohwell
I learned that having a wood when doing these things can result in some well done {Galkan Sausage}.
So, yeah, what does it matter? Just make macros, friend.
My 1 Gil is worth more than your 1 Gil. -
10-21-2011, 01:45 AMellohwellI would cook naked, but there's more places to burn myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gath
Anyway, macros are a solution for a problem that never should exist. -
10-21-2011, 02:29 AMTaokii
I agree with this topic. It needs to go back to favored.. It felt more real having the ability to wear anything just like how "clothes" work lol.
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10-21-2011, 04:22 AMDrunk-BanditNot you asking da OP >:D lolQuote:
Originally Posted by mysterytaru
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10-21-2011, 04:24 AMAnswa
LOL Have you seen the tags for this thread?
"nonsense, optimal level, wasn't on ffxi? sucks, wynn_hater," -
10-21-2011, 12:18 PMYoungsun
no offense, but theyve had it for a year and obviously it isnt working because people arent playing.. why would they want everyone to be able to run around in lvl 1 gear.. a lot of people would. I think it makes it more interesting and gives people things to look forward to besides just the level. I dont understand why you would want to run around in level 1 gear when you can be running around in level 50 gear, and in XI you could have as many jobs as you wanted on one character...
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10-21-2011, 12:29 PMReaujienOh darn......................Quote:
Originally Posted by ellohwell
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10-21-2011, 01:09 PMellohwell-Because you will die in lvl 50 gear if you wear it at lvl 1Quote:
Originally Posted by Youngsun
-because you cant afford it -
10-21-2011, 01:16 PMWynnROFL nice oneQuote:
Originally Posted by Answa
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10-22-2011, 04:29 AMNakiamiieThat's why we can't have nice things with people who add tags like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Answa
Favoured class/optimal level is a legitimate thing to discuss. There are many situation where required level and class for certain items are more a pain and bothersome. I still believe required class and level should be reserved for rare items, items that truly bring you guys on another level of prestige. But a yellow linen shirt (for example), really? "Hey look, I'm finaly high level enough to wear my yellow linen shirt! Whoo!" ...not really prestigious is it? Those crafted items should be optimal level and favoured class, not required. Keep the required for the Iffrit loots or the dungeon loot or the NMs' loot. Items that truly mean something, not items crafted by crafters trying to level up.
P.S.: Yes, since the majority of items are crafted, that means the majority of items would be favoured class and optimal level, not required. Just do what a nice player should do, educate your fellow linkshell friends if they are always wearing things beyond their current reach. I, for one, don't want to be restricted because a few players feel like they don't need to read the Lodestone and the tutorials. -
10-22-2011, 04:30 AMellohwell
Keep required Class for weapons only.
And keep Required Rank for starter gear. -
10-22-2011, 04:35 AMJennestiaHmm.Quote:
Originally Posted by ellohwell
Required Class for gear and Required Level for gear works well though. -
10-22-2011, 04:45 AMellohwellIt actually fails.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennestia
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10-22-2011, 04:47 AMJennestiaMuch like the optimal rank system "failed", or else Square wouldn't have changed it, no?Quote:
Originally Posted by ellohwell
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10-22-2011, 04:52 AMLagallol u fail! get new gear and make macros and stop being a noob -.-Quote:
Originally Posted by ellohwell
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10-22-2011, 04:57 AMellohwellLogical fallacy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennestia
Just because they change something doesn't mean they had good reason to.
That's the whole premise of this thread; questioning their reason. Or lack thereof. -
10-22-2011, 04:57 AMLagal
/ac "stop being noob" <me>
yes, u r welcome -
10-22-2011, 05:04 AMmysterytaruThey don't have to give you a reason. It's pretty simple. "Drastic changes" mean just that.Quote:
Originally Posted by ellohwell
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10-22-2011, 05:05 AMellohwellMeans what? Bad decisions?Quote:
Originally Posted by mysterytaru
Well I can see that. -
10-22-2011, 05:08 AMmysterytaruEverything since Yoshi took over has been a bad decision to you. You've made that quite clear over the course of your 5 other accounts by trolling him and the dev team nonstop. Your opinion has no bearing on the reality that most people actually playing the game are enjoying the changes. Get over yourself, gifthorse, you're not as important as you think.Quote:
Originally Posted by ellohwell
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10-22-2011, 05:10 AMellohwellHow is required rank/class good?Quote:
Originally Posted by mysterytaru
Do explain. -
10-22-2011, 05:13 AMTiraelina
What did making GLA a disadvantage to have in parties do to improve the game? What is required rank doing that a modified optimal rank wouldn't have done in a more graceful manner? Stats were useless before 1.19 so using gear that was optimal to you barely mattered, stop basing your opinion off it.
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10-22-2011, 05:14 AMJennestiaHow is it bad? What's being hurt or unable to be accomplished by needing to level in order to wear something? Or be the appropriate class?Quote:
Originally Posted by ellohwell
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10-22-2011, 05:17 AMmysterytaruIt's called 'goal-oriented content'. Another thing that was overwhelmingly voted for in the player polls. Also, as has been stated many times and ignored by you just as often, it makes the game and other content easier to balance and manage from a development standpoint.Quote:
Originally Posted by ellohwell
Unfortunately for everyone on these forums, this doesn't matter to you because you're gonna QQ anyway because Tanaka's game is dead and you want to play that one instead and won't shut up about it. We get it. You don't like the new direction. Too bad. It's here and it's here to stay. -
10-22-2011, 05:20 AMJennestia
Even Yoshida said it would be easier to balance with the Required system.
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10-22-2011, 05:21 AMmysterytaruSince this is gifthorse we're arguing with, the fact that Yoshi said it makes it an obvious lie and and wrong in any possible way it could be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennestia
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10-22-2011, 05:24 AMellohwellWow. If they have to resort to slapping restrictions on everything to create goals for people, they need to try harder. I don't mean this like "oh SE sucks" I mean this like "wearing gear isn't a worthwhile goal".Quote:
Originally Posted by mysterytaru
There are more important things you could be doing than fussing over gear which is basically all just the same anyway. Besides, I could have all R50s and completed every quest and beat every boss and still change weapons and end up naked.
As for the balance issue, I can put one materia on a robe and make it better than full plate so maybe "balance" isn't such a good soap box to use to convey your message.
"too bad"Quote:
Too bad. It's here and it's here to stay.
That's exactly right. It's just plain bad. -
10-22-2011, 05:26 AMDreamer
While I think these sorts of restrictions are silly, I would be mostly okay with it if we had some sort of appearance system to counteract the loss of character appearance customizability (is that a word?).