Bulge size options for character creation.

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

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+1 to this post and i could say the same thing about any requests that are of this kind

Well, I'd be happy if we at least got a bulge for males, to begin with... whilst I'd welcome a slider, at the moment it's just flatness, with some gear giving the illusion of one. I mean Overwatch has done it. The world hardly came to an end. Men have flesh in that area, just like women on their chests.

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I know I'm gonna get a lot of hate for this, but whatever, dont care.

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You poor little martyr.

No one is asking for naked genitalia... as long as it's covered up, what's the issue? If SE doesn't want to draw attention to the option, they can at least add something down there, although they don't seem to take issue with allowing variation in the female breast area. If you wear tight gear like some of what is on offer in this game, a bigger bulge will show more, it's just the way it works.

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If you want a BULGE slider, then thats the same as asking for a camel toe slider for women or to ask for female character's bra to be removed whenever they unequip their chest piece, so
we can show our bare chests equally just like male characters can (sans nipples, that is).

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Exposing naked breasts is the same as allowing the char to modify a bulge, how exactly? I guess they could add a camel toe slider...

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On top of that. An "equal" slider to female breast slider would be a male breast slider, for, y'know, MANBOOBS. Cos they exist. But they arent considered attractive, thats why you dont want it.

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Duh. I mean we could ask for obesity sliders, but it should be obvious that few people are going to ask for traits that actually make their chars look worse... the female breast slider has the effect of augmenting their attractiveness in a way that is explicitly sexualised, however obvious or not breasts are.

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

I know I'm gonna get a lot of hate for this, but whatever, dont care.

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So what would you suggest as a male-exclusive appearance slider? You went into depth to discuss why you think a Bulge Slider isn't a good addition, and you even made some good points against it. What would your alternative be?

It's basically a case of "I can't understand why anyone likes things different to what I do", tbh.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

It's basically a case of "I can't understand why anyone likes things different to what I do", tbh.

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Indeed. A, 'Breast Slider,' for males is not a good suggestion at all. I wouldn't be opposed to the Muscle Slider having been male only, but some females have access to it.

Body hair sliders? It's not a slider that makes parts bigger but it would be a male-only slider.

Or maybe a muscle slider increase for males only? More beards? I don't know. I think making an "equivalent" slider is kinda silly. Just give male characters special attention for something customization-wise.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

So what would you suggest as a male-exclusive appearance slider? You went into depth to discuss why you think a Bulge Slider isn't a good addition, and you even made some good points against it. What would your alternative be?

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well, first of all, I havent ever compared male and female character creation of the same race. Do they not both have the same amount of possible customizations?
If indeed the female character creation has, for example, 13 different customizable options (e.g. eye color, hair style, breast slider) vs the male character creation only having 12 (everything but the breast slider), then I do agree that there should be an equivalent so both genders end up with the same amount of possible customization. If thats not the case, the discussion is already redundant to me.

But if it is and you're asking me to come up with some suggestions, this is what I thought of fairly quickly:

- some sort of slider to tone your muscles (kind of like highlanders already have)
or maybe,instead of doing it like the highlander one, make it so that the slider will give you the option to have either more slender or more musculous arms and legs

- slider to widen/broaden your shoulders (<-- this I would also love as an option for female elezen as IMO their head/shoulder ratio is completely off)

Basically, sliders to alter your character's physique.


It's not that easy to come up with alternatives as I am not male and do not play male characters, so making suggestions on my behalf may seem half-assed, hence why I mainly added to the discussion by saying what I do NOT want (because that, I do know).

I'd like more control over the anatomy (within the bounds of each race) for muscularity, and various other proportions, as a general rule. It'd be great if you could create your midlander to have a physique like the SW derplander, i.e. in between their current options and the highlander one.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

Indeed. A, 'Breast Slider,' for males is not a good suggestion at all. I wouldn't be opposed to the Muscle Slider having been male only, but some females have access to it.

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I would be happy with a bulge alone. I'm not opposed to a slider, at all, but I can understand SE's apprehension to drawing attention to the feature. IMO, it's no different to a breast slider but they have to consider how it might affect the game's age rating. The mere presence of bulges will not do it any harm. I don't think the muscularity slider would be the best option to preserve for males only (although I'd like to see it expanded to more races and vary more than just the tone), as there's already a considerable size difference for most races; perhaps a stubble one could work.

Fair enough, but I think you pointed out an interesting point. If something like a slider for shoulders or physique was added, why should it be male only? Seems unfair to lock that from female characters. The Muscule Slider exists, just for certain races, but some females do have access to it.

Also, each race and gender have different options to be honest, so I'm not sure if everything is equal or not. But if, say, Female Miqo'te were stuck with one length of tail in exchange for Breast Slider, but males could change the length of their tail, wouldn't that be unfair to females? Its not exactly male exclusive.

Yes, I don't think there's a need to premise it on "equality". I'm not bothered by that. I just hate the sight of a flat crotch on a male character.

Sure, i can go for this. But only if existing armor changes accordingly.

http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/...psaw7jcoeu.png


But for real, why is this suggestion a thing? It has to be the most ridicoulus thing ive seen requested on here.

I hope this is just a troll thread. I thought it was.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

It's basically a case of "I can't understand why anyone likes things different to what I do", tbh.

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You've already shown in your previous post that you are lacking reading comprehension and took some things I said out of context.
I also gave reasons as to why it's ridiculous and cannot be compared.

All I see in your response is someone being butthurt over someone else disagreeing with their opinion.

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

You've already shown in your previous post that you are lacking reading comprehension and took some things I said out of context.
I also gave reasons as to why it's ridiculous and cannot be compared.

All I see in your response is someone being butthurt over someone else disagreeing with their opinion.

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I thought your points were pretty weak, tbh, and I explained why.

If that's all you see, well that is more the result of your blinkered vision, more than anything else. Sorry for not kowtowing to your martyr syndrome, btw.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

I thought your points were pretty weak, tbh, and I explained why.

If that's all you see, well that is more the result of your blinkered vision, more than anything else. Sorry for not kowtowing to your martyr syndrome, btw.

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Some were better than others. 'Camel Toe,' slider, and, 'Man Breast,' slider were what I would consider weak argumentative points that would only add fire to a discussion. Her points on a bulge being hidden by things like tabards or robes, however, is perfectly valid and, in my opinion, a strong point.

Yeah, some outfits inherently obscure them... but SE already factors that in when creating armour sets. It's more feature of some sets of armour, than anything... a lot of their caster gear is tunics with trousers, particularly for males.

If the game is to continue to expand and be successful then additional options for character customisation are definitely something that need to be looked into moving forward. There's a massive amount of support for such a move across various threads and it was even asked during the Frankfurt Fan Fest.

As far as something like a bulge slider goes? I'm all for it. It's sorely needed, either as a slider or just enough of a bulge that the character model doesn't look like it has 'Ken Doll' anatomy. I'd point to Overwatch as a tasteful example of male characters having a bulge.

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

You're calling this an "equal" option for males because females have BREAST sliders? Well, I'm sorry but breasts ARE a MAJOR aesthetic shape feature of women and theres just such a huge range in size

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But what about males? They have genitalia in a range of sizes, on top of that, they're a major aesthetic of what a man's crotch looks like, smh acting as if we're Ken dolls. :/

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

Due to the nature of things, it would also draw in a lot more trolls maxing out their bulges and harass female players and the likes.

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That's what a report feature is used for. Not saying it's ok to harass people with this, but to say "Oh, bulges are the reason people will harass female players"... ok so I have a penis, I automatically harass women. :)

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

I sure hope SQEX wont listen to incredibly stupid ideas like this and actually invests their development time in a more meaningful/useful way.

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But emotes exclusively for couples and fairy glamour aren't as useless or stupid? Smells like double standards to me.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Yeah, some outfits inherently obscure them... but SE already factors that in when creating armour sets. It's more feature of some sets of armour, than anything... a lot of their caster gear is tunics with trousers, particularly for males.

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Nope. Just like bust on females armors will be made with preset shapes regardless of size with exception to a certain few. Bust size big or small, won't change how it looks on almost all gear besides bikinis, RSE(Racially Specific Equipment), and... I think that's it?

So like females, you will only see bulge on underwear/thong items.

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

Nope. Just like bust on females armors will be made with preset shapes regardless of size with exception to a certain few. Bust size big or small, won't change how it looks on almost all gear besides bikinis, RSE(Racially Specific Equipment), and... I think that's it?

So like females, you will only see bulge on underwear/thong items.

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That's only an issue with a slider, per se, and only so based on their current technology. It doesn't factor in that they may be improving on char creation as time goes by. It's certainly not an argument for keeping things that way.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

That's only an issue with a slider, per se, and only so based on their current technology. It doesn't factor in that they may be improving on char creation as time goes by. It's certainly not an argument for keeping things that way.

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They could just make it bigger and not add a slider. But what about the guys that didnt want it bigger? Then you run into issues. And even if they improved their technology, realistically.. come on. In most of the clothing today you can't look and tell what a guy is packing unless he's wearing something really tight. Unlike bust on a woman. This is where its different. Your bulge will have to be really big to notice it on anything not tight O.o which I'm that point, the line is already crossed.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

But what about males? They have genitalia in a range of sizes, on top of that, they're a major aesthetic of what a man's crotch looks like, smh acting as if we're Ken dolls. :/


That's what a report feature is used for. Not saying it's ok to harass people with this, but to say "Oh, bulges are the reason people will harass female players"... ok so I have a penis, I automatically harass women. :)


But emotes exclusively for couples and fairy glamour aren't as useless or stupid? Smells like double standards to me.

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Another double standard is how little they protest against sexualizing girls... as if men shouldn't be allowed to be sexy in public :(

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Originally Posted by Vexander

Fair enough, but I think you pointed out an interesting point. If something like a slider for shoulders or physique was added, why should it be male only? Seems unfair to lock that from female characters. The Muscule Slider exists, just for certain races, but some females do have access to it.

Also, each race and gender have different options to be honest, so I'm not sure if everything is equal or not. But if, say, Female Miqo'te were stuck with one length of tail in exchange for Breast Slider, but males could change the length of their tail, wouldn't that be unfair to females? Its not exactly male exclusive.

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I dont know why you feel the need to point something out that Ive already pointed out myself.
Hence why I said to maybe not do it the same way as it is for highlanders, but actually let the slider make your arms and legs THICKER and ACTUALLY muscular (kind of like a roegadynn, but ofc not to the same extent).
Highlander doesnt actually let you change the shape of your arms and legs, it's just giving you a more toned/defined look on the surface.

Why male exclusive only? Because youre all crying for equality, but some things in nature simply arent created equally.

A woman can deliver a child, a man cant.

Working out men will by default always have an easier time to increase their muscle mass compared to women.
Ofc their muscles will develop too, but not to the same extent. (No need to bring up cases where EXCEPTIONS apply, those exist everywhere but do not reflect the normal circumstances)
Hence why this could be a male-only feature.

And a woman's breast will always be a major shape feature of a woman that can vary in sizes a lot and this shape will almost always be visible, clothing or not (unless youre wearing the bulkiest tank armor there is).
A bulge is not comparable to that, as you won't see it unless you're only in your underwear, and I'm sorry but I do not support the development team wasting time on a bulge slider/redo just so the LGBT community of Balmung
has a better time ERPing.

Both midlanders and highlanders can alter their muscle tone, FWIW.

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A bulge is not comparable to that, as you won't see it unless you're only in your underwear, and I'm sorry but I do not support the development team wasting time on a bulge slider/redo just so the LGBT community of Balmung
has a better time ERPing.

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Then don't support it. You'll pay to play the game anyway, so big diff it'll make to them. As long as you can make your tiddies bigger, no big issue, right? How much do you think the feature would cost to implement, by the by, as an addendum to their reworking of the models, which is bound to occur sooner or later?

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

They could just make it bigger and not add a slider. But what about the guys that didnt want it bigger? Then you run into issues. And even if they improved their technology, realistically.. come on. In most of the clothing today you can't look and tell what a guy is packing unless he's wearing something really tight. Unlike bust on a woman. This is where its different. Your bulge will have to be really big to notice it on anything not tight O.o which I'm that point, the line is already crossed.

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Or they could just add an on/off feature for it, as they did in WOW with the old/new models. Not difficult. Some people may not like it, but hey, can't please everyone... and if they added some sort of toggle for it, that'd leave little excuse for any opposition to it. To be clear, the tech improvement comment only relates to the sliders carrying over customisation options. Albeit, I'd note that some people do transmog into bikinis and the like, anyway.

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

They could just make it bigger and not add a slider. But what about the guys that didnt want it bigger? Then you run into issues. And even if they improved their technology, realistically.. come on. In most of the clothing today you can't look and tell what a guy is packing unless he's wearing something really tight. Unlike bust on a woman. This is where its different. Your bulge will have to be really big to notice it on anything not tight O.o which I'm that point, the line is already crossed.

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This might be the case for Hyur, but looking at the Roegadyn, I think there is room for a noticeable bulge given how large the race itself is.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

This might be the case for Hyur, but looking at the Roegadyn, I think there is room for a noticeable bulge given how large the race itself is.

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Only if you assume size is directly proportional to build. As some animals prove, that is most definitely not the case. ;)

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Originally Posted by ErryK

But emotes exclusively for couples and fairy glamour aren't as useless or stupid? Smells like double standards to me.

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Eh, you're trying really hard. But I found Egi glamours to be really useless as well. My SMN hasnt even unlocked Carbuncle glamours and tbh, I dont really care if SCH gets fairy-glamours or not.
But if they do something nice with it that I could end up liking, then I'm not opposed to it. Same goes for the couple emotes. Its a nice to have, but you dont see me there arguing why this is an absolute necessity, do you`? :)

Secondly, IF they were to implement such features, everyone could make use of it if they wanted to, no matter the gender.
But here we are talking about "QQ I dont feel manly cos my character has no visible bulge, its so unfair that females have a breast slider!!!1111oneone".

Still amazed you dont see how hilarious this discussion is :D

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Originally Posted by Lauront

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Okay. But what about seeing it? You won't see your bulge unless it's huge or if you're wearing something tight. Or are you expecting a bubble space designed for armor?

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

Okay. But what about seeing it? You won't see your bulge unless it's huge or if you're wearing something tight. Or are you expecting a bubble space designed for armor?

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It really doesn't take a huge one, and we're talking about a difference of zero (right now) to something. They're visible in Overwatch, for instance, but not overdone to the point of being vulgar (at least for the purposes of retaining their PEGI rating.) I wouldn't expect them to do it for armours where it doesn't make sense.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

It really doesn't take a huge one, and we're talking about a difference of zero (right now) to something. They're visible in Overwatch, for instance, but not overdone to the point of being vulgar (at least for the purposes of retaining their PEGI rating.) I wouldn't expect them to do it for armours where it doesn't make sense.

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I don't play Overwatch. Can you provide an example? It can't be tight either.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Then don't support it. You'll pay to play the game anyway, so big diff it'll make to them. As long as you can make your tiddies bigger, no big issue, right? How much do you think the feature would cost to implement, by the by, as an addendum to their reworking of the models, which is bound to occur sooner or later?

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Hah, I knew you were gonna play that card. but really my "tiddies" arent that big, and thats yet another good point I'd like to add something to:

The breast slider is fairly small in range, you cant go for huge boobs. I wonder why? Theres several reasons I can think of.
Now, what if some woman who is very well-endowed starts playing this game. Should she also create a post here crying for a wider range for the breast slider because
"OMG SE I FEEL LIKE MY CHARACTER IS SO FLAT, I DONT FEEL LIKE MYSELF, THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS!!!! DO SOMETHING!!!!1111" ?

Cant always add stuff for all the special snowflakes out there. Simple.

As for myself, my character has an average sized chest. And I'm pretty sure if there wasnt a slider, I'd still be fine with the default size they chose for the character to go with.
I'm not really completely opposed to the butt slider that they were discussing a lot lately, but it's also not a necessity for me because I'm fine with how my character looks.
So really, theres a reason why I dont understand the OBSESSION some people here have with a bulge slider.
Also asked my bf and a couple of male friends if they wanted or needed a bulge slider. and their reaction was pretty much like "Omg,lol why are they even thinking of something like that?"

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

Eh, you're trying really hard. But I found Egi glamours to be really useless as well. My SMN hasnt even unlocked Carbuncle glamours and tbh, I dont really care if SCH gets fairy-glamours or not.
But if they do something nice with it that I could end up liking, then I'm not opposed to it. Same goes for the couple emotes. Its a nice to have, but you dont see me there arguing why this is an absolute necessity, do you`? :)

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You don't really care about SCH glamours, but you'll be the first person to come into a thread to complain about people asking for a small increase to a mesh where their crotch is. If that is something that affects you, pixelated penises, then you need a reality check, honey.

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

Secondly, IF they were to implement such features, everyone could make use of it if they wanted to, no matter the gender.
But here we are talking about "QQ I dont feel manly cos my character has no visible bulge, its so unfair that females have a breast slider!!!1111oneone".

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Everyone could make use of the breast slider, no matter the gender, but here we are complaining about pixel penises as if it will affect your life quality. If it really didn't matter, you'd roll your eyes and get on with your life.

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

Still amazed you dont see how hilarious this discussion is :D

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I'm amazed that misandry is a positive thing for you. :rolleyes:

hahahahaha, now we have come to the point where thinking low-key pixel bulges are fine is equal to misandry XD

The amount of sheer full-blown ridiculousness has really crossed the line here. I suggest you take your own advice and get a reality check because obviously YOU
cant get over not having a well-endowed pixel bulge in a game.

I've had my fair share of harassment ingame because of idiot players who can only think with their genitalia, so I do not need more of that crap by enhancing stupid and redundant features like bulges.
Because it is bound to happen. And all of that just so a few ERPers can run around naked with their bulges. Lol.


Anyway, I'm out of this discussion.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

Pixels

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Why not let everyone run around naked, jiggle effects and all then? Since they are only pixels after all right?

I hope you're realizing why your pixel argument is silly.

Pixels put together create images that can offend people or be inappropriate for a game. That's what ratings are for. Pixels have weight. Yoshi already had to think hard on whether or not he could allow players to smoke or drink.

Whether you want to believe it or not, a visually big penis is a sexual theme in media. Sorry it's how it is. For women, big bust, big butt? Sexual theme in media. It's how it is. Don't act like it doesn't exist.

Allowing players to have a big bulge so you can see it outlined in your underwear or pants is a sexual theme.

If you paint an image of something offensive/inappropriate you can't say "Lol chill it's just paint". No doesn't work like that. The paint created an image that has a meaning. Same goes for pixels.

EDIT: Also Faliandra had a good point with how you bash her about taking pixels seriously. But look at you.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

I'm amazed that misandry is a positive thing for you. :rolleyes:

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I don't necessarily agree with Faliandra, because I think her argument about dismissing someone's "glamour wants" as obsolete is flawed logic, but there is a big misunderstanding here, which makes your own argument flawed logic in itself.

A man's bulge and penis size is not the same as a woman's breast size. The reason for this is that breasts are not reproductive or sexual organs, unlike a penis. The fact that breasts are sexualized by society at large is a whole different issue, and it's a discussion that is much denser than the one going on in this thread. I'm not going to deny there's a bit of a double-standard going on in the game with the topic of nipples and bare chests when it comes to males and females, but this is hardly the developers' fault, as they also have age ratings to consider.

You do have to consider, though, that a female's breasts actually do affect a large percent of the clothes they wear, save for plate and heavy armors, so in a way the breast slider is understandable. If anything, I think a comparable to a female's breast size in men would be the size of their musculature, since muscles are largely sexualized in males despite them not having any form of sexual connotation. It's actually somewhat strange to me that there isn't a muscle slider for all races. I guess I can understand Lalafells? But the rest kind of eludes me. In the end, though, even Hyurs can only change the definition and toning of their muscles and not so much their size, so...

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Originally Posted by Fernosaur

A man's bulge and penis size is not the same as a woman's breast size. The reason for this is that breasts are not reproductive or sexual organs, unlike a penis.

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I heard that it is far more acceptable in japan for a lady to show her lower portions of her butt cheeks in a super short skirt than to show a good amount of cleavage. Where i come from, we usually see cleavage and dont think much of it. Anyways.. true or not, you also have to take into account other peoples cultures as well.

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My pants are not flat in real life, but nobody every gets upset at me.. I don't need a full blown 2 liter sized over exaggerated bulge leading the charge for my final fantasy shenanigans but it would be nice to have a more realistic lower half. One that doesn't seem overly sexualized or inappropriate, but just 'real', much unlike the ken-doll figures we have now. I would also like to see fatness and muscle size in player models as well as larger and smaller breast and booty options than what we currently have.. Just better variety in proportions in general would be great.

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

hahahahaha, now we have come to the point where thinking low-key pixel bulges are fine is equal to misandry XD

The amount of sheer full-blown ridiculousness has really crossed the line here. I suggest you take your own advice and get a reality check because obviously YOU
cant get over not having a well-endowed pixel bulge in a game.

I've had my fair share of harassment ingame because of idiot players who can only think with their genitalia, so I do not need more of that crap by enhancing stupid and redundant features like bulges.
Because it is bound to happen. And all of that just so a few ERPers can run around naked with their bulges. Lol.

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Sorry penises make you sad. :(
Why not take my advice and use the report feature and blacklist them? :confused:

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

Anyway, I'm out of this discussion.

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Bye o/

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

Why not let everyone run around naked, jiggle effects and all then? Since they are only pixels after all right?

I hope you're realizing why your pixel argument is silly.

Pixels put together create images that can offend people or be inappropriate for a game. That's what ratings are for. Pixels have weight. Yoshi already had to think hard on whether or not he could allow players to smoke or drink.

Whether you want to believe it or not, a visually big penis is a sexual theme in media. Sorry it's how it is. For women, big bust, big butt? Sexual theme in media. It's how it is. Don't act like it doesn't exist.

Allowing players to have a big bulge so you can see it outlined in your underwear or pants is a sexual theme.

If you paint an image of something offensive/inappropriate you can't say "Lol chill it's just paint". No doesn't work like that. The paint created an image that has a meaning. Same goes for pixels.

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You make a good point, but as far as I'm concerned, if someone with a big bulge walks up to you, and you find it uncomfortable, you can teleport away. If someone harasses you, there are locations where you can go such as a locked FC house, apartment, FC room or log out entirely to avoid them. You can blacklist them, report them. What is the point of a report feature if the game coddles you 100% of the time, that would be inane.

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

EDIT: Also Faliandra had a good point with how you bash her about taking pixels seriously. But look at you.

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What about me? I bash her mostly because she insinuated I am insecure about my masculinity that I require a bulge slider to validate it. Sorry, but that's just plain rude and uncalled for, and if she's going to be happy and positive about it not being in the game, and that my masculinity is going to "take a hit", even more reason to fight for it, because I'd love to see a "useless/meaningless" thing in the game that would make her unhappy that she never got her fairy glamours and couple emotes which are just as meaningless and useless.

The pixels argument isn't that strong, you're right about that, but I've already explained myself why I'm so worked up about Faliandra's posts.

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Originally Posted by Fernosaur

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Well what else could they add to the races that already do have a muscle slider (ie. Roegadyn, Hyur Midlander and Highlander) if all the rest of the races got it? There would be an imbalance in sliders since, Au Ra and Miqo'te have their tail slider, and Lalafell and Elezen have their ear slider.

In the end, I would argue rather than a slider, just change the meshes to appear less flat. It's like having all the breasts in a game be A-cup size.

If you want to support both butt and bulge sliders for Stormblood hit the Like-button on the linked post.

We saints row now?
Anyway funny enough it would take a good bit of work to implement since all current pants equipment would need to get an edit to allow this character detail since its not all automatic.

Also it would be exactly like bust size which currently not all gear is equal with what you can call "true bust size", for example take a highlander female with max bust size and see them in the starter gear or a cowl and now put them in the Brand new robe and watch them shrink a lot.

This would also apply to a bulge option if for some reason added and as such it would literally not apply to any gear without edits and even if the edit happens it wont show up at all on quite a bit of gear and only be visible when in your underwear.

Overall its not even worth considering.

Outside of hair, I can't see them add character customization. The butt sider has a lot more people up in arms.

For odd reasons the Abe's pants increases the bulge size on my character. I haven't checked the effects on bust size since I only have a low level female alt character which I use seldom.