DEV REQUEST:DUEL/SPAR system

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Originally Posted by Nalien

You seem to have missed the point. I haven't really seen any PvP drama inside PvP.

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Well, good for you I guess. My point is still the same: people don't see raid drama in the open world because raids are contained within raids. Same thing is true for PvP. That would change if PvP became possible in the open world.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

Huh?? I've never seen more petty smack talk in this game in places other than raids.

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Honestly, Duty Finder is worse and more often than not it's not from the better players in my experience.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

Well, good for you I guess. My point is still the same: people don't see raid drama in the open world because raids are contained within raids. Same thing is true for PvP. That would change if PvP became possible in the open world.

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Player verses Player is already possible in the open world, it's called Triple Triad. How many times have you seen people talking smack over Triple Triad? Ever?

Though really, lets stop pretending that the elitist attitude from raids doesn't leak out of instances and into Mor Dhona. I've seen plenty of Party Finder groups presumably gone wrong erupt into argument in Mor Dhona. I've seen plenty of (presumably) "notoriously bad" players shouting at each other.

I also don't really see how it would change if there was something like a PvPr requirement. People simply wouldn't be able to challenge you if you don't PvP. That pretty much makes Duels something solely for PvPers.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

Well, good for you I guess. My point is still the same: people don't see raid drama in the open world because raids are contained within raids. Same thing is true for PvP. That would change if PvP became possible in the open world.

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To be honest, I see a lot of people in Revenant's Toll bad-mouthing each other about PF groups. For example people shout: "Don't join so and so's clear party because they ain't gonna clear anything." You see drama like this all the time.

A lot of smack talk happens in open world PVE too. People pull S ranks and A ranks too early or even reset them, and as a result there's a whole cacophony of drama.

Oh, can't believe I didn't remember this sooner; Hunts.

Forget raid drama, I've seen enough "early pull" crap to last me a lifetime.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

A lot of smack talk happens in open world PVE too. People pull S ranks and A ranks too early or even reset them, and as a result there's a whole cacophony of drama.

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Edit that in just as I posted D:

Guess Hunts should be removed because of a few bad apples, since that seems to be the mentality against adding Duels (despite all the failsafes we've suggested~). Better not add those Floating Islands in 3.1, imagine all the FC drama they're going to causes as well.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

The only reason this game is getting more popular is because it is pve focused when alot of people are tired of mmo's being a hybrid of pve/pvp that throws balanced out of whack and causes a certain company to completely change around all jobs/classes every 6 months because of balance issues. Say no to /duels in this game. FF should not be another forum for e-peen cheaters to try to brow beat superiority and dominance into the other 99% of the players who enjoy the game as a pve oriented game. Please do not add pvp to FF 14 more then it already has.

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That is what I see as the real issue here. Far to many are fighting about the inclusion of PvP... We are are asking for duels.

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/...path-prefix=vi

http://www.antd.org/wp-content/uploa...1/snap_108.png

Dueling is not new to the series, any fan knows this. Dueling is part of the local color of a fantasy setting, that I believe can only help in the immersion of the game.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Guess Hunts should be removed because of a few bad apples, since that seems to be the mentality against adding Duels (despite all the failsafes we've suggested~). Better not add those Floating Islands in 3.1, imagine all the FC drama they're going to causes as well.

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Actually, I would be happy if crap like Hunts had never been added to the game, but that's a tale for another day.

Arguments like "it doesn't matter if this causes drama, because other stuff already causes drama" isn't really a good argument.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

Arguments like "it doesn't matter if this causes drama, because other stuff already causes drama" isn't really a good argument.

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Good thing that isn't my argument.

My argument is that we shouldn't dismiss content because some people are going to be dicks. If we did, we wouldn't have any content. This is an MMO, some people are going to be dicks, if "we can't have that because some people are dicks" was a rational argument MMOs simply wouldn't exist.

This is true for Raids. It's true for Hunts. It's true for crafting and the in-game economy. And yes, it's true for PvP. The only issue here is that, when people are dicks in PvE, people call them out as such, but when people are dicks in PvP (and currently they're not), people go "PvPers are bad! We shouldn't have PvP!". It's blindly hypocritical, just like the whole nonsense about Duels somehow causing lag when Treasure Maps don't already. The whole "Duels will cause drama" thing is just another vain attempt at people who don't PvP trying to justify not having PvP in the game. We get it, you all don't like PvP, that is exactly why we're suggesting Duels in such a way that it wouldn't affect you. None of us who actually PvP care for Duels for e-peen, as you lot have suggested. None of us who actually PvP even care to challenge non-PvPers. The whole argument hinges on some hypothetical douchbags we've seen zero evidence of in game, even if you all want to pretend that they'd suddenly spawn in were Duels added, please do explain how they'd go about upsetting you if Duels were introduced in such a way as we've suggested throughout this thread?

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Originally Posted by Alacran

That is what I see as the real issue here. Far to many are fighting about the inclusion of PvP... We are are asking for duels.

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/...path-prefix=vi

http://www.antd.org/wp-content/uploa...1/snap_108.png

Dueling is not new to the series, any fan knows this. Dueling is part of the local color of a fantasy settings, that I believe can only help in the immersion of the game.

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That's a cutscene and a boss fight...not dueling and not even close to what's suggested here. That's REALLY stretching it.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

That's a cutscene and a boss fight...not dueling and not even close to what's suggested here. That's REALLY stretching it.

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How about that time in the MSQ where Hoary Boulder literally challenged us to a duel?

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Originally Posted by Alacran

http://i.imgur.com/dV74Le6.png

http://i.imgur.com/86S6iLo.png

http://i.imgur.com/iUHjX4K.png

http://i.imgur.com/WYMvXjz.png

http://i.imgur.com/SkmVzRe.png

Last I checked the "spirit" of Final Fantasy and of Erozea is just fine with with us testing our martial ability against one another.

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Still a boss fight, but the point is that the precedent has been set in the MSQ. People Duel in Eorzea.

The only real reason you all seem to have against Duels seems to be the "drama" it would cause, ignoring all the suggestions we've presented to avoid that, but where is the precedent for that? Where are the people aggressively challenging others to Triple Triad matches and creating drama over that? Where were the people demanding others challenge them in Wolves' Den? Where are the dickish PvP players who'd create so much trouble if Duels were introduced? All I've seen in PvP is fairly nice and forgiving players, something I certainly cannot say about my average World of Darkness groups.

Your precedent seems entirely based on other MMOs, which you're all to quick to point out are different because FFXIV is more PvE focused. Doesn't the fact that it is more PvE focused mean there are less of these unwanted individuals anyway? Just because they add Duels doesn't suddenly mean that the majority of the player base, who haven't touched PvP at all, are going to suddenly be challenging everyone they meet and flinging mud when someone rejects a challenge. Never mind the fact that we've already suggested Duels in such a way that PvEers can easily avoid getting challenges in the first place.

Triple Triad is duel pvp, and there has been no drama from that. So the QQ is for no reason.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

Arguments like "it doesn't matter if this causes drama, because other stuff already causes drama" isn't really a good argument.

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I think that's an excellent argument. People are ok with the drama caused by PvEers but won't tolerate the supposed drama that will arise from PvPers? That's called a double standard. Saying someone has a double standard is a good way of discrediting their argument because it shows they have the inability to be impartial.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

Thank you. Thank you for giving me the perfect example of the kind of bad attitude I believe comes with dueling. In your zest to argue about it and disparage those that disagree you've perfectly put on display the exact reason I don't want dueling.

Pve is the primary focus of this game yet you find it appropriate to tell me to quit just because some OPTIONAL pvp exists? You have a terrible attitude and dueling well only being more people like you out from the woodwork.

If it were to be added I would only approve of it being in a limit zone or zones where you must go to actively participate. That way I, and others that don't like this attitude, can avoid you entirely.

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With all due respect what you approve of has no bearing what so ever. There is no reason a quest line for those that want access to dueling/ sparring should not be implemented. One would simply need not do the aforementioned quest and the option to duel would be nonexistent. You can stay your "pure" PvE self (even after you beat a Roe and his Elf friend in front of all of your friends/ admirers).

Please explain honestly how a system I (and many others) just explained in this particular post would hinder any of those that do not want this option. Truly how does this impede, offend, bother, matter at all to your progress/ enjoyment of the game?

Do you know what's offensive to me? Being told by a random stranger that I can't duel in this game because I would not be able to handle not being a jerk. Way to stereotype. Please don't act as if PVE only encourages camaraderie. Besides, some people (such as myself and my brother) would only like to duel each other and our friends.

Just make a quest that enables dueling and call it a day. That has been said many times already I know, but very few people seem to acknowledge that. So it is worth repeating in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Alacran

Please explain honestly how a system I (and many others) just explained in this particular post would hinder any of those that do not want this option. Truly how does this impede, offend, bother, matter at all to your progress/ enjoyment of the game?

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I already said so earlier in a previous post.

You're entitled to your opinion, and so am I. I don't expect you to agree but I have a right to record it here so Square sees it.

I'm all for a duel system of some sort. Maybe if you don't want it to be publicly fighting everywhere, (I can see some issues with accidentally accepting a duel challenge in areas filled with monsters), it could make use of the actual arena in Ul'Dah in some way or form. Such as maybe have it where you can either enter the ring via the DF solo to get a "random match", or as a party of two to have a "private match"......

If such was implemented, I would also be all for the idea of allowing spectators via talking to an attendant of some sort in Ul'Dah at the arena itself. It could be a payed attraction to do when you're bored, (maybe just a couple hundred gil), and have a tournament system implemented as well. In addition to the bragging rights, the victor could receive a set gil amount plus 50% of the admission fees from any spectators that watch their match. If implemented properly, it could give us both a form of entertainment to the world, and a fun way to individually test our skills against each other if we so choose......

EDIT: After going back and reviewing some of the previous posts in this thread, I would like to point out that a duel system is no where near the same as open PvP. I don't really see why all the PvP haters out there seem to think that allowing organized duels of some variety is the same as allowing PKing and harassment in the open world? I personally hate open world PvP because said harassment is so easy, but dueling is in and of itself something different entirely. It's an agreed upon challenge between two combatants, (be they friends, rivals, or two angry people who think that each other is bad at the game), to test their skills against one another, and nothing more. Claiming it would cause any more drama than what already exists is baseless. People will still harass each other claiming that they're better than the other regardless, this is why the "report player" option exists to begin with. Creating a dueling system simply allows two players who feel the same to put their gil where their mouth is in such situations. Harassing players will get the same treatment they currently get......

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

Don't want this at all. There is no point in 1v1 pvp even in just dueling when every real pvp feature is team based. It's just for e-peen and I don't think it has a place here, and I don't want the kind of environment it creates.

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The point of it would be an option for those that want it. Numerous times it was explained as being a way for people to pass time, not just for "e-Peen".

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

It changes some of the tone and attitude of much of the community making it much more confrontational and competitive. That much would be forced on everyone regardless if they participate or not.

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This seems to denote you can see the future, the ability to know exactly how an entire community will become savage war mongering ravagers must be a great burden.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

Thank you. Thank you for giving me the perfect example of the kind of bad attitude I believe comes with dueling. In your zest to argue about it and disparage those that disagree you've perfectly put on display the exact reason I don't want dueling.

Pve is the primary focus of this game yet you find it appropriate to tell me to quit just because some OPTIONAL pvp exists? You have a terrible attitude and dueling well only being more people like you out from the woodwork.

If it were to be added I would only approve of it being in a limit zone or zones where you must go to actively participate. That way I, and others that don't like this attitude, can avoid you entirely.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

I mean, that is a real question. If you mean you get offended by "seeing" someone fight, then please grow up. (If you don't, then ignore this!) There are many things in the world a lot worse.

Anyways, they were talking about adding contested content to the game. Which is PvP, so I guess if that offends you you should probably quit anyways.

Although, you might as well quit now because crafting is already a sort of "PvP" since your selling your goods versus other players. Does that offend you?

Not that i'm telling you to quit for real. I just don't see why people play games when they don't have fun, and get offended when other people have fun.

Competition is human nature, and it is already competitive. Look at raids.

The forums are confrontational and they are part of the game, as you can see. Things on the forums can change how the game works. So its already a thing.

As a role-player, I see fighting every single day pretty much. Although its from role-playing if we had a feature like this it could enhance my role-play experience and make it more immersive. Although it could also make it less so if people have characters who don't use the skills. However it could be useful for events, instead of spamming chat with emotes you could just have spars and fights.

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This was the entirety of this persons quote, if someone takes to the time to explain their resoning please take the time to use their entire quote, chopping it up to paint yourself as a victim is not an admirable aspect of anyone's personality.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

That's a cutscene and a boss fight...not dueling and not even close to what's suggested here. That's REALLY stretching it.

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They were in fact examples of dueling in the FF series, used to illustrate their importance and to offer a stage as to why it has it is wanted and expected by long time fans of the series and of the genre.

I despise even the idea of pvp...in any mmo I play, I never participate in any pvp aspect, It literally makes me sick the very thought of it. :cool:

BUT for those that do enjoy it...a dueling system should be in place for them.!!!

As long as there are restrictions as to where it can happen and as long as the player has 100% control so that ppl cant be spammed for duels..harrassed then it definately should be implemented for the pvpers

The more playstyles they can make happier , the better the entire game will be, and the much longer life it will enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

I don't think anyone has a problem with duels, just not open world duels. The little arena in Ul'dah, Wolves' Den, by all means please. Duel to your heart's content. But leave me, and everyone else not interested, out of it.

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I'll be here all week.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

I'll be here all week.

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So by your insistence we would be segregated to smaller venues?

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Originally Posted by Alacran

So by your insistence we would be segregated to smaller venues?

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You mean like you currently are now? Yes. Very much yes.

Looking at the attitudes and ego of people here arguing, I dont believe this duel system is just for killing time or fun times. Expect another side of elitism, aside from PVE one. Expect more childish reaction and name calling. Ive seen it from several MMOs which allow duels. Well its still fun to watch though.

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Originally Posted by AriaEnia

Looking at the attitudes and ego of people here arguing, I dont believe this duel system is just for killing time or fun times. Expect another side of elitism, aside from PVE one. Expect more childish reaction and name calling. Ive seen it from several MMOs which allow duels. Well its still fun to watch though.

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Care to point out posts in specific? Because every PvPer here, and every PvPer I know, solely wants Duels as a way to pass the time during queues. Any disdain in our posts is simply a result of having to deal with the same tired arguments from people who seem to insist on ignoring what we've actually suggested. I don't think any of us have any desire to Duel PvEers who, frankly, suck. If you don't already PvP why would I want to Duel you? You'd have no idea how to PvP, I might as well just fight regular mobs in PvE to be perfectly honest. That's part of the reason I suggest putting Duels behind a PvPr requirement; That way if I can Duel someone I know they have experience, if I can't I know they're not even worth the time.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

You mean like you currently are now? Yes. Very much yes.

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Is this guy one of the pvpers that will be making the life of pve terrible for everyone?
If not I'm sorry. He just seems like it so aggressive.
Anyway I'm still in shock people are against more content. Hey guess what guys now the 1% that you guys claim are elitist jerks in pf or Df might be dueling in between raids instead since it won't have a ridiculous long q time. But there goes logic in ffxiv forum. Sorry again if my logic offends anyone.

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Originally Posted by Alacran

So by your insistence we would be segregated to smaller venues?

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You could play with the idea further if its relegated to official areas like the colosseum. Have a interact able at the Colosseum section that allows you to view the fight, NPC announcements in say calling up who's going in vs. who and the winner. To prevent throwing matches you could try the following, limit the number of duels per day, have a score for each player that, among comparing each other, takes into account the total performance of both parties(entertain the crowd), . I would say either some reward would have to be considered if its an official venue, or you can have player matches be "grudge matches" that are solely for entertainment purposes. it would at least keep those interested in a particular(and proper) venue.

Its more justified to make it reward-less in an unofficial venue, like the field outside mor dhona. That's not to say its impossible for the Colosseum, though.

Bumping in favor of dueling

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Originally Posted by Nalien

snipped

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Maybe you and the PVPers you know are like that, but I don't think you represent all the mind of PVPers in FFXIV. You even said that you don't want to duel people who are suck, and not even worth of your time.

I thought you want to duel for fun? Isn't that kinda elitist attitude?

Don't get me wrong, I fully support the duel system to be implemented, because I like watching them and the drama made around it.

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Originally Posted by AriaEnia

Maybe you and the PVPers you know are like that, but I don't think you represent all the mind of PVPers in FFXIV. You even said that you don't want to duel people who are suck, and not even worth of your time.

I thought you want to duel for fun? Isn't that kinda elitist attitude?

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Yes, I want to Duel for fun. Guess what, an entirely one sided Duel because the other person doesn't know what they're doing, and probably hasn't even got PvP actions set on their hot bar, is not fun.

The only time I'd want to Duel "weak" people is if they have an active interest in PvPing and they'd like to practice, in which case I'd gladly help them and teach them various PvP mechanics.

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Originally Posted by AriaEnia

You even said that you don't want to duel people who are suck, and not even worth of your time.

I thought you want to duel for fun? Isn't that kinda elitist attitude?

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Depends whats fun for the person. Some people think taking on a challenge is fun. Dueling a low skilled player might not be fun for some, the same as doing a normal mode trial won't be fun for high skilled PvEers.

Bumping its time to duel

Bumping its time to duel

You can't wait later to make a second bump?

That was a mistake :D

most our saying that duel is not suited for cooperation theme of eorzea, but cant you understand that duel is different from killing. my idea of a duel is a friendly matched or training that aims to lessen the hp to 1 and not zero. if you dont want a duel in the friendly zone areas, then that can be solved to an arena or training gorund of some sort. stop making issues that it can ruin the story because with the proper design it will never will.

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Originally Posted by jinda

most our saying that duel is not suited for cooperation theme of eorzea, but cant you understand that duel is different from killing. my idea of a duel is a friendly matched or training that aims to lessen the hp to 1 and not zero. if you dont want a duel in the friendly zone areas, then that can be solved to an arena or training gorund of some sort. stop making issues that it can ruin the story because with the proper design it will never will.

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This.

As an RP'er on Balmung we have these weekly events called Grindstone and Runestone.. These events are RP'd sparing matches.. and they take nearly 6+ hours to complete because everything has to be typed out. I know some would oppose a duel system being added but it would help these types of events go by faster to where we aren't literally spending half a day on one match.

I'm all for a sparring system. How else are the adventurers of Eorzea supposed to keep sharp during lulls in threats to the land?

Honestly I wouldn't mind having a dueling system, I wouldn't use it but what ever. I would however like to ask they they put some thought into spicing up what they have before adding more. If they gave us ten different pvp modes that were all boring wouldn't that just leave us with ten boring modes instead of two?

I don't pvp btw, I try not to que so much in my ffxiv life

dueling?
https://comeheretome.files.wordpress...4/35lufzd9.jpg

i suppose on a positive note the carpenters will be getting a massive demand for coffins.

couldnt you just disappear into the ascian world and dual there then it wouldnt even bother anyone btw ive been asking for duals since beta lol

another thing they could do is let non participants bet on who they think will win

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

I don't think anyone has a problem with duels, just not open world duels. The little arena in Ul'dah, Wolves' Den, by all means please. Duel to your heart's content. But leave me, and everyone else not interested, out of it.

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Why was this thread revived?