Revelations from Patch 2.55 [SPOILERS]

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Originally Posted by RickiFake02

And how did wyverns break into Ishgard even after we defeated Vishap and saved the wards? This quest really just left too many loose threads and unanswered questions and did nothing but make me angry :(

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The wards were broken by Vishap so they managed to enter, but with Vishap dead and no one to lead them most of them retreated.

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Originally Posted by Kotemon

The full goal being to promote him self as the peoples champion of sorts that was trying to better the refugees while standing against the aristocracy.

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But The Rock looks more like Raubahn. >_>

/wrestling
/derail

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

But The Rock looks more like Raubahn. >_>

/wrestling
/derail

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Finally, Raubahn has come back, to Ul'dah!

/ThePeoplesElbowsponsoredbyGarlondIronworksyou'renumberonechoiceforreplacementroboticlimbs

Yep, works for me.

Although it does throw the spanner in the works on my plans for RaubahnCop, the cyborg zerker for justice in the corrupt city of Ul'dah.

Well, atleast the Wyverns attacking will explain why Ishgard will look like a complete mess and have alot of reconstruction going on

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Originally Posted by myahele

Well, atleast the Wyverns attacking will explain why Ishgard will look like a complete mess and have alot of reconstruction going on

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Even before that, Aymeric implied the city sustained some structural damage in the main assault.

Personally, I'd like to know how the Wyverns broke through the last ward ;)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CBxdinhW4AAXkCL.jpg:orig

Note: When I did it for the story, none were remaining, so I dunno if this would change dialouge.

So I was wondering if people remember that this is still a thing:

http://38.media.tumblr.com/8f5a80adb...ikio6_1280.png

Some people are speculating that the Garleans have a hand in what transpired in Ul'Dah. And people don't seem to be giving the Ishgardian duo much attention. Is it possible that Lucia was working on the plot behind the scenes too? When Teledji appears and informs the pair of the fresh Dravanian attack, there's this REALLY weird moment where the camera shows them staring each other out for a while before Aymeric responds...and Teledji's eyes narrow during it, as though they're silently conveying something. It seems the Dravanian attack was genuine though, so it wasn't an excuse to get them out of there if there was some conspiracy going on. Maybe if they were conspiring part of the plan involved them sticking around. I don't know, throwing random thoughts out :P

But that look and delayed silence between them and Telejdi tells me there was more to it than simply "your home's under attack, better scoot!"

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

But The Rock looks more like Raubahn. >_>

/wrestling
/derail

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Nice..

However with all the back stabbing and soap opera grade plot twists. Please say I didn't just unintentionally paint Lolorito as the Vince McMahon of Uldah

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Originally Posted by Aeliott

It seems the Dravanian attack was genuine though, so it wasn't an excuse to get them out of there if there was some conspiracy going on.

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Aymeric's second in command had a point about the chain of communications. In all fairness Teledji had Crystal braves up in the highlands. It stands to reason they were blocking or intercepting communications. Given Aymerics dialog in an earlier mission. It explains why Aymeric seemed to eye up Teledji as if he discerned that they were manipulating the events unfolding.

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Originally Posted by Aeliott

When Teledji appears and informs the pair of the fresh Dravanian attack, there's this REALLY weird moment where the camera shows them staring each other out for a while before Aymeric responds...and Teledji's eyes narrow during it, as though they're silently conveying something. It seems the Dravanian attack was genuine though, so it wasn't an excuse to get them out of there if there was some conspiracy going on. Maybe if they were conspiring part of the plan involved them sticking around. I don't know, throwing random thoughts out :P

But that look and delayed silence between them and Telejdi tells me there was more to it than simply "your home's under attack, better scoot!"

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I'm pretty sure it was more a battle of wits. Aymeric's no fool, so he has to know that Lolorito can't be trusted any further than you could throw him without getting blood everywhere. If someone that untrustworthy, in the middle of causing a scene, told you that you needed to respond to a threat your official channels hadn't told you about, would you trust them? That it happened to be true implies to me that Lolorito knew about it before it happened, to be able to get word to Aymeric before Ishgardian channels could.

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Originally Posted by Kotemon

Nice..

However with all the back stabbing and soap opera grade plot twists. Please say I didn't just unintentionally paint Lolorito as the Vince McMahon of Uldah.

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Hey, now, the little guy just died; don't go comparing him to Vince. That's just mean. :(

Ah, that does make a lot of sense now. I suppose I'm still suspicious of Lucia and trying to wedge her in somewhere :P not that her birth defines her of course. Though it is curious. And it's not hard to believe that the Garleans may have had some hand in this (it's gotta be either them, the Ascians or both, right?).

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Originally Posted by Aeliott

And it's not hard to believe that the Garleans may have had some hand in this (it's gotta be either them, the Ascians or both, right?).

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Possible, but don't forget that Ishgard has a heretic problem, as well.

The Ascians seem to have a hand in the heretics actions to some extent, though how much is hard to tell. But I don't think Lucia is evil. It's very doubtful that Aymeric is unaware of her race, and he doesn't seem like the kind of man who would casually give his trust.

Aymeric mentions when he first introduces Lucia to us that she's "not of Ishgard" so he's most likely aware she's garlean.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Hey, now, the little guy just died; don't go comparing him to Vince. That's just mean. :(

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That was Teledji Adeledji. Lolorito is the one with the mask. He's sitting next to the Sultana in the last Collinary quest and you baked him a raptor in an earlier quest. If anything Teledji adeledji is more of a Ted Turner when compared to Lolorito.

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Originally Posted by Kotemon

That was Teledji Adeledji. Lolorito is the one with the mask. He's sitting next to the Sultana in the last Collinary quest and you baked him a raptor in an earlier quest. If anything Teledji adeledji is more of a Ted Turner when compared to Lolorito.

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Blarg. Well, at least I think that's the first time I mixed the two up. >_>

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Originally Posted by NoloeTazier

Nanamo planned it

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Something about the 'knowing smile' she had before drinking from the goblet. Your post explains it quite well now.

http://i.imgur.com/oNdEkWk.png

http://i.imgur.com/6wt0kZk.png

Twice even, or does Nanamo just really like wine? :p

Excuse me while I go and /pray underneath the Sultantree.

1. Denial
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance
6. Dark Knight
7. Revenge !

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Originally Posted by NoloeTazier

Nanamo planned it

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Originally Posted by BunnyChain

Something about the 'knowing smile' she had before drinking from the goblet. Your post explains it quite well now.

Excuse me while I go and /pray underneath the Sultantree.

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I'm on this train

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Originally Posted by FenHin

I'm on this train

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As much as i want her to live because she's my favorite i really don't want them to destroy a huge part of the plot just to satisfy fans with a dumb convoluted "Oh my hand maiden was only pretending to be a traitor to weed out the real traitors and then she slipped a sleeping pill in my drink so i could pretend to be assassinated as part of their plan then we can secretly plot to stop them". That would be really really dumb.

I really looking forward to seeing where that storyline goes along with Ishgard and Iceheart. There are a whole ton of cards on the table and we still don't know a great deal of the Ascians role in it all it's possible they are manipulating all sides in some way.

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Originally Posted by MXMoondoggie

As much as i want her to live because she's my favorite i really don't want them to destroy a huge part of the plot just to satisfy fans with a dumb convoluted "Oh my hand maiden was only pretending to be a traitor to weed out the real traitors and then she slipped a sleeping pill in my drink so i could pretend to be assassinated as part of their plan then we can secretly plot to stop them". That would be really really dumb.

I really looking forward to seeing where that storyline goes along with Ishgard and Iceheart. There are a whole ton of cards on the table and we still don't know a great deal of the Ascians role in it all it's possible they are manipulating all sides in some way.

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What do you mean? On the scene and the last patch before this, Before the Fall, it showed the three women having secret meeting, and Nanamo saying something about abdicating the throne. That can explain why Admiral and Kan-E-Senna just walk away from it. If the writers already planned it before, it was not a dumb plot for satisfying the fans. It's the writer's creativity freedom

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Originally Posted by MXMoondoggie

As much as i want her to live because she's my favorite i really don't want them to destroy a huge part of the plot just to satisfy fans with a dumb convoluted "Oh my hand maiden was only pretending to be a traitor to weed out the real traitors and then she slipped a sleeping pill in my drink so i could pretend to be assassinated as part of their plan then we can secretly plot to stop them". That would be really really dumb.

I really looking forward to seeing where that storyline goes along with Ishgard and Iceheart. There are a whole ton of cards on the table and we still don't know a great deal of the Ascians role in it all it's possible they are manipulating all sides in some way.

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Like I stated, it wouldn't be the first time it has happened. Lalafuto III faked his own death to get away from his role as Sultan of Belah'dia. Nanamo has left Ul'dah before under a disguise as Princess Edvya did before her. History tends to repeat itself. So it's not like the writers are destroying any of the plot if anything they're giving a nod to their own history that they have created in this game.

The Niellefresne connection is probably the least likely but it's a base I wanted to get out there because if it does happen then at least some people will have a bit more knowledge of who the guy is/was. It would mean a bit of closure to the 1.0 Ul'dah story line that still hasn't been completely finished and Ferne has said that things would come back, F'lhaminn did eventually.

None of what I said is probably remotely true but it's always fun to speculate/theorize with the current lore/history we have that runs back thousands and thousands of years.

There is some plausibility to her being alive, but I think it would be very disappointing if she was. Now I don't mean that in a cruel way of course! But it would completely undo the whole impact of this "season finale". Because let's face it, the scions are probably not dead. Were Nanamo still alive it would all feel cheap and like no "good guys" are mortal after all. People have mostly responded well to the developments in 2.5 because until this point it was all very much us inevitably saving the day and getting showered with adoration, with no real feeling of threat. Moenbryda's sacrifice was the only bump on that road but she was introduced so late that, for me personally at least, it was hard to care as much as the writers probably wanted me to. Again, there are so many questionable camera shots and facial expressions on top of everything else that I can't say for sure that Nanamo is gone, but the thought of her being alive makes me think a lot less highly of everything that just happened.

Another thing to consider: this game goes extremely overboard on foreshadowing. People are actually suspicious of Tataru of all people. But by that point in the story (well, even earlier) it is so. freakin'. obvious. that things aren't going to go down well at this banquet that her rather blunt musings about this time together seeming a bit final and parting smile actually made people question if she's on it because well, we know! Tying in with this, the camera lingering on Nanamo before drinking could just be tension purposes. We've seen the voice-acted maid and the several 10 second establishing shots on the bottle she has. We know. This game is very hard to read what it intends with facial expression and camera focus sometimes, and the foreshadowing to the player was so overblown that I can't feel sure about any of the subtleties sending our thoughts wild.

If it turns out she is still alive in the future, instead of going "aha! That's so clever, the signs were there all along!" I'd be kind of sad at the plot armour. I can live with, I don't mind her living, I'd just be disappointed.

If Nanamo does turns out alive...I'd probably end up disliking her as character. You have to be a certain kind of ruthless and uncaring to fake your own death and not tell your closest friend of it. Especially seeing as Nanamo should have been aware of how Raubahn would have reacted.

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Originally Posted by lilirulu

If Nanamo does turns out alive...I'd probably end up disliking her as character. You have to be a certain kind of ruthless and uncaring to fake your own death and not tell your closest friend of it. Especially seeing as Nanamo should have been aware of how Raubahn would have reacted.

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If Nanamo IS alive, I'm very sure she wasn't aware of what would happen when she had a sip, and didn't plan to die, or fake it. In my opinion, if she's alive it's because the hand-maid was either instructed to use a non-fatal poison that simulates death, or the maid actually on Nanamo's side and used a non-fatal substance when the Syndicate (or real conspirators) wanted her to genuinely kill her.

...or there's this tinfoil-sounding thing about a knife of resurrection, but to me that would be a whole different level of cheap.

If she is alive and was in on it, as you say I would lose all respect for her based on how reckless that is. And why do it when in a room with someone else who could end up "framed"? It just doesn't make sense.

I too would like to echo my distaste for Merl's lack of action. That's really unlike the lady that snarled at Alphinaud and went guns blazing into the Sahagin lands.

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Originally Posted by Aeliott

If she is alive and was in on it, as you say I would lose all respect for her based on how reckless that is. And why do it when in a room with someone else who could end up "framed"? It just doesn't make sense.

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Unless she intended to frame us for it, so Ul'dah would be united against her "assassin". lol.

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Originally Posted by lololink

1. Denial
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance
6. Dark Knight
7. Revenge !

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I cant be more agreed.

This may or may not hold relevance, but I've noticed that in many different stories, the Japanese tend to remove more sweeter/"innocent" characters from the stage before things get ugly, thus Tataru's seeming goodbye scene in Costa. This is of course assuming that the sweet character is not integral to the situation about to blow up (Nanamo), or by effect of tragedy, some kind of catalyst for plot development (not necessarily "innocent" but, Moenbryda, Aerith is also a popular legacy reference). I'm sure this isn't a solid rule of Japanese drama, and there has to be some exceptions out there, but generally speaking, when the kids and innocents exit the stage, things get violently serious.

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Originally Posted by Aeliott

...or there's this tinfoil-sounding thing about a knife of resurrection, but to me that would be a whole different level of cheap.

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Until you add F'lhamminn to the equation. With the way things have been going, that knife could very well be one of the few 1.0 plot points that Yoshida wants to get back to.

And I was never talking about feel-good, warm-fuzzies, happy necromancy. I'm talking about the "came back wrong" sort of necromancy. Maybe so wrong that Raubahn has to kill her himself. That necromancy.

On the topic of Necromancy; Didn't during the ALC LVL50 quest they manage to resurrect the deceased lover of the Guildmaster for a short while?

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Originally Posted by RickiFake02

First off: SPOILERS

This entire quest made me so mad. Firstly, there is zero reason for any of the Scions to be dead, so I think they *should* how back up. Especially Yda and Papalymo. They kicked ASS back there, there's no way they died. Y'shtola and Thancred could very well have been crushed in the tunnel, but they also could have very easily escaped. Also: Hydaelyn hasn't spone to us since Ultima, so why on earth would she suddenly speak to Minfilia just to have her stay behind? It makes no sense. Also: What happened to that blonde Crystal Brave with the tattoo on his face? He was on our side and he's suddenly gone. And what about the rest of the Syndicate? And how did wyverns break into Ishgard even after we defeated Vishap and saved the wards? This quest really just left too many loose threads and unanswered questions and did nothing but make me angry :(

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My fiance and I were discussing this, I think the message Minfilia got was telling her to let us go, and for her to save her allies. The only possible reason to run back in there would be to save Y'shtola and Thancred from the rubble, they collapsed the tunnel, there would be no guards coming through after them, if those two were dead, there would be zero reason to go back. I also find it quite interesting that the only two people to confirm the sultana's death is Adeledji and Ilberd, neither are trustworthy to their word, and Adaledji didn't even touch the body, he simply looked at her and gave a "yeah bro, she ded" the only trustworthy character that refers to the sultana says that she's violently ill. It's kind of interesting imo

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Originally Posted by lilirulu

On the topic of Necromancy; Didn't during the ALC LVL50 quest they manage to resurrect the deceased lover of the Guildmaster for a short while?

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And then her entire body turned to aether, as I recall.

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Originally Posted by lololink

1. Revenge !

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Renamed my Pedigree 9 Top Class Chocobo to "Brave Sultana", so the visitors are calling this all the time in Gold Saucer, when they watch the R-300 race, making it echo in the minds of her murderers...

Of course this is just the beginning.

Honestly, I kind of like the way the story is headed. This showed that we (the Warrior of Light) aren't some omnipotent being.. That we aren't untouchable. The scions are gone (I'm going to say captured, not dead), we've been betrayed and framed for murder, by people we trusted. We've hit rock bottom.
But the one good thing about hitting rock bottom, is that the only place left to go, is up.

Hoping we play a more active role, in Heavensward. Forming our own plans when it comes to getting the scions back (hopefully) and raising ourselves back up to where we were, before the betrayal. Granted the game will tell us where to go, but storywise, it's the Warrior of Light making the decisions.

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Originally Posted by Mimiru_S

Honestly, I kind of like the way the story is headed. This showed that we (the Warrior of Light) aren't some omnipotent being.. That we aren't untouchable. The scions are gone (I'm going to say captured, not dead), we've been betrayed and framed for murder, by people we trusted. We've hit rock bottom.

But the one good thing about hitting rock bottom, is that the only place left to go, is up.

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We never were near omnipotent. But now we are weak cowards. And I never trusted the blue jackets, why should I? Sure, I could not question them in the story, but why should I trust those people? I don't even really trust all Scions. To most of them I don't really got much contact.


And at the bottom... well, it's not like WE got problems now. Uldah got, the people there and it could also become a problem for Gridania, Limsi and Coerthas, if they (Monetarists) really will ally with the empire.

But well, if people don't want the help you offer them. We only have to lose a lot of work, in which we risked our own lifes, nothing else. We actually don't even live there, we are foreigners. If they all want to die, want war, want to be suppressed and abused... it's their choice. We pretty much helped them without any real reward. What did we get for it? Some food and coins. Honor? Who cares. A warm thank you? Well, obviously not so much.

Sure, it seems like many people would like to have help against their oppressors. And sure, I would really like to help them. Even as Assassin. Who cares. We are mass murderers anyway. One Lala more or less...

But well, sorry, not possible. And say thank you to your so called allies, who give a **** on your lifes. Politics, you know...

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Originally Posted by Mimiru_S

Honestly, I kind of like the way the story is headed. This showed that we (the Warrior of Light) aren't some omnipotent being.. That we aren't untouchable. The scions are gone (I'm going to say captured, not dead), we've been betrayed and framed for murder, by people we trusted. We've hit rock bottom.
But the one good thing about hitting rock bottom, is that the only place left to go, is up.

Hoping we play a more active role, in Heavensward. Forming our own plans when it comes to getting the scions back (hopefully) and raising ourselves back up to where we were, before the betrayal. Granted the game will tell us where to go, but storywise, it's the Warrior of Light making the decisions.

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Interesting opinion. It would be good at some point where the WoL make his own decisions and leading his friends.

I just realized, temporary resurrection is possible in the game.

So perhaps one thing that can happen is that Nanamo can temporarily be resurrected then abdicate the throne and prove our innocence and thats it.

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Originally Posted by Dalvy

I too would like to echo my distaste for Merl's lack of action. That's really unlike the lady that snarled at Alphinaud and went guns blazing into the Sahagin lands.

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I can't speak for her lack of action, but you have to understand where she was coming from during that meeting with Alphinaud; her men are stationed all over to keep the beastmen in check (they got TWO sets to deal with as well as their primals if they pop up again), so diverting resources could lead to very fatal consequences. As for her going into Sahagin territory, it's her land and her people that are in danger from Leviathan and as she explained to Alphinaud, those things come first before anything. Alphinaud refused to listen because he was too naive and thought everyone could spare the men and the time to help a fellow neighbor and as Merlwyb pointed out, things aren't as simple as the boy thought it was. He eventually learned the hard way.

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Originally Posted by myahele

I just realized, temporary resurrection is possible in the game.

So perhaps one thing that can happen is that Nanamo can temporarily be resurrected then abdicate the throne and prove our innocence and thats it.

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My hidden text had more than 10 Characters but it denies it anyway Meh.

Yes, this is confirmed in the Alchemy quests in which the guild master temporarily resurrects his dead wife. So many feels!

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Originally Posted by Fenral

Until you add F'lhamminn to the equation. With the way things have been going, that knife could very well be one of the few 1.0 plot points that Yoshida wants to get back to.

And I was never talking about feel-good, warm-fuzzies, happy necromancy. I'm talking about the "came back wrong" sort of necromancy. Maybe so wrong that Raubahn has to kill her himself. That necromancy.

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Given Ul'dah's historical ties to necromancy, especially after the reveal in the Hildibrand quest series, I actually see this happening. Lolorito needs Nanamo alive to legitimise his power else he'll face a civil war when her death eventually becomes public knowledge. It would make a great deal of sense for him to want to bring her back as a necromantic puppet. This would let SE twist that knife in the feels even more as well... poor Raubahn.