SMN redesign in expansion?

I am just hoping on some news in the next live letter. My jimmies can't take it anymore

Keep waiting then. i don't see SE saying anything about class changes until the patch notes and even if they say before a patch it will be something along the lines of "we are looking at it". They didn't announce what they had planned for war, drg or blm when those got changes. Frankly, 2.5 is done and waiting on patching. 3.0 is done and waiting on release. Unless SE decided to overhaul smn back when they were in planning phase of Heavensward, they won't do it now and waste the production cost of 3.0, and even after 3.0 it will probably take something drastic like 25% drop in subscriptions before they do a redesign.

Should have battle system info at PAX East, March 7.

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Originally Posted by Lilyarel

Im so glad I'm not the only that thinks that way. I still dont see the connection with arcanists and illnesses.

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LOL according to the dictionary:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/arcanist

person professing special secret knowledge concerning ceramics, especially concerning the making of porcelain.

Learn something new everyday. When do we start throwing porcelain pots at mobs!?

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Should have battle system info at PAX East, March 7.

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Finally omg :D

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Originally Posted by Meier

Learn something new everyday. When do we start throwing porcelain pots at mobs!?

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That'd probably be more effective than Ruin, anyway.

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Originally Posted by Riepah

That'd probably be more effective than Ruin, anyway.

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Hahaha for real...and never run out of mp!

how awesome the world would be, if Scholars were the only Arcanist job with Carbuncles and Fairies *dreams*

And a separate SMN job ;P

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Originally Posted by Shikiseki

how awesome the world would be, if Scholars were the only Arcanist job with Carbuncles and Fairies *dreams*

And a separate SMN job ;P

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To be quite honest it should've been. Carbuncle should've remained a Scholar pet and cast buffs on the party as Carbuncle has ALWAYS been known to do in FF history, dunno when he decided to put on the fighting gear...

I'm REALLY hoping when SE does do away with the class system, they merge Arcanist with SCH and then make Summoner its own category and give it the face and boob lift it really needs... That way SE can use carbuncle in substitute as new pets to sch class with level cap increases, but carbuncle would need to be redesigned to fit SCH system. THAT is what I would personally love to see.

EDIT: Just to explain the simple "do away with the class system" thing: Technically it would not affect any of the job storylines cause if you think about it they can take away Lancer and call it DRG storyline quest and it would remain the same. The only JOBs it would be difficult for is Summoner & Scholar due to them sharing a class... and even then it would just require work on, you guessed it Summoner... but even then the summoner would start with Titan and Garuda, just like emerald and Topaz... or they could change it to it being a DPS class and they start with Ifrit after beating him then Titan, Garuda and so on...

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Originally Posted by Meier

LOL according to the dictionary:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/arcanist

person professing special secret knowledge concerning ceramics, especially concerning the making of porcelain.

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That only opened up so many questions...

You mean questions like Arcanist should've actually been in DoH, instead of DoM?

I think that definition answers that, wouldn't you agree? :p

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Originally Posted by SomnusNemoris

I am just hoping on some news in the next live letter. My jimmies can't take it anymore

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I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

Square Enix makes some nice games and all (good art, decent story, content rate is okey ... etc.) but responsiveness to player requests isn't one of their strengths.

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Originally Posted by Zedd702

To be quite honest it should've been. Carbuncle should've remained a Scholar pet and cast buffs on the party as Carbuncle has ALWAYS been known to do in FF history, dunno when he decided to put on the fighting gear...

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That would mean no more Carbuncle for DPS. :(

I wouldn't mind the Carbies being more "effects" orientated though - as opposed to directly damaging the targets.

Any thoughts on the MP reduction for Ruin & Ruin II at all? I'm at work so I haven't played the new patch yet so I'm curious to see how effective it really is. My gut feeling is better performance in trash content but still not much of a difference in end game.

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Originally Posted by Zedd702

Carbuncle has ALWAYS been known to do in FF history, dunno when he decided to put on the fighting gear...

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Well the first time I saw Carbuncle in a Final Fantasy he looked like this:

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...%29_Mobile.png

And he could definitely put up a fight!
But to be fair, once you could summon him it DID just cast reflect on the party, which is what Carbuncle is most known for (Reflect).

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Originally Posted by zeroaru

Any thoughts on the MP reduction for Ruin & Ruin II at all? I'm at work so I haven't played the new patch yet so I'm curious to see how effective it really is. My gut feeling is better performance in trash content but still not much of a difference in end game.

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Absolutely pathetic "buff"

<begins prepping torch & pitchfork> Ishgard will most definitely be burning in 3.0.

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Originally Posted by zeroaru

Any thoughts on the MP reduction for Ruin & Ruin II at all? I'm at work so I haven't played the new patch yet so I'm curious to see how effective it really is. My gut feeling is better performance in trash content but still not much of a difference in end game.

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It only solved one of the several issues that SMN is facing. Even with slightly better resource management, SMN cannot keep up with the single target DPS of BLM, nor can they compete with the significantly better utility that BLM brings to FCoB.

SMN will continue to have issues until:
1) They address spell speed by either giving SMN a different set of gear, or making spell speed more useful for SMN
2) They overhaul the utility that SMN gets. A battle rez that neuters DPS output due to costing a ridiculous amount of MP is only useful in short encounters. It is less than useless in FCoB where the party gets penalized for people dying anyways.
3) They properly balance the single target DPS for SMN. SMN is a DoT class, this means it has a long ramp up time and SHOULD have the highest single target DPS of all ranged classes.

They should not try and tackle all of these at once, as it would probably bring some major balance issues, but these are all issues that need to be addressed. Lowering the MP cost of Ruin and Ruin2 only really helped on the mana resource front, which is definitely helpful, but it did not come even close to bringing SMN back in line to be useful in FCoB.

I'm happy. You know what this buff and the corresponding explanation from Yoshida foretell: ACN isn't going anywhere. This is great. I love managing timers. I love the relationship I have with my pet, where the Summoner is the star and the pet is the sidekick. Maybe a little more micro-management and interaction the pet and would be nice (this will probably come with Heavensward and new abilities), but not to the point where the pet is doing all the work. No. Summoner is an Arcanist with Fester, and that is good. Hopefully this buff helps the people doing FCoB with their supposed mana problems. But for the people that want to take away something others enjoy, because they themselves don't enjoy it, I don't know what to say.

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Originally Posted by Brianmj

snip.

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ACN isn't going anywhere, because Sch still exist. If Sch didn't exist Smn would have gotten a real buff not a hotfix, and these didn't fix nothing if anything it made SMN mains angrier. What they should have done along time ago was remove Smn from ACN and turn it into job only class like how Dark knight is going to be, but they waited too long and now we got "buffs" like these. Smh, I can just hear all of the BLM mains just laughing while trying to keep a straight face.

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Originally Posted by ViviAnimus

Absolutely pathetic "buff"

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Actually it's a Hotfix*

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Originally Posted by Bigcat9715

if anything it made SMN mains angrier..

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Anger over the fact that SE has taken notice and without really screwing up anything major (i.e piety to our stone, potency to fester, etc..etc.) tried to do something that is not really even a band-aid fix? Hell, far from it. I'm actually laughing my backside off at those who thought it would be something major with an expansion not even months away. Least they acknowledge something is up with this change and now we have to just wait and see

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Originally Posted by Bigcat9715

ACN isn't going anywhere, because Sch still exist. If Sch didn't exist Smn would have gotten a real buff not a hotfix, and these didn't fix nothing if anything it made SMN mains angrier. What they should have done along time ago was remove Smn from ACN and turn it into job only class like how Dark knight is going to be, but they waited too long and now we got "buffs" like these. Smh, I can just hear all of the BLM mains just laughing while trying to keep a straight face.

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But the people in this thread aren't for a buff like the ones in "why is Summoner the worst DPS" thread. These people are for a complete overhaul. Maybe the people in the other thread were pushing for a redesign, but in this thread, the agenda is clear. As long as ACN is the jobs base, I'm happy. I'm not doing FCoB yet, so it's hard for me to sympathize with what everyone is going through. The closest thing I can work with is in Frontlines: Secure, where when Drones (monsters) pop, and I have to race against other DPS in trying to down them, then the inadequacies of the job become apparent. But that is the only instance where I'm competing with other jobs. And it's not enough to take away from the enjoyment I get from playing Summoner. One of the issues surrounding all this is that, in PvE, the jobs are somehow competing with one another. I just can't wrap my head around that. Maybe this is due to me being a casual that raids. I don't know. "Job competitiveness" just doesn't hold anything over me, but maybe it does for you all. I really don't know.

BTW, you don't have to be a BLM main for that. When I woke up this morning and read the patch notes, I thought, "this is it?" Then I thought of you all, then I laughed. THM is locked at 26.

Well consider this; SE wants the summoner, you the player, to be melee range to smack your book against the mob. Now, words hurt jokes aside, since we have to be in melee range, WTF SE!

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Originally Posted by Brianmj

THM is locked at 26

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I want you to go fully level your BLM to 50, so you can see the difference between SMN & BLM with your own eyes. No matter how much you put into playing Smn the job will never be in the same ball park as BLM hell Smn is in the parking lot of the Ball park. No matter if it's ST or AOE in a single rotation BLM can hit up to 5k+ that is an imbalance between the two. You know why that is? It's because Yoshi-P mains BLM, that's right the guy that runs FF14 mains a BLM just like the dude that runs Wow and the Mages in that game are OP as well. It's a classic case of favoritism. I was just like you only playing Smn thinking if I try my best I can be as good as any BLM, boy was I wrong. The only attacks that hit for 1K in the Smn arsenal is Fester (with all 3 DoTs up) and Enkindle(5 min CD). When BLM has Astral 3 ever cast of fire anything or flare hits for 1k+ they become as powerful as the end game bosses. I'm not trying to flame you I love being a Smn as much as you do, and if there wasn't anything wrong with the job I would be with you on this, but this is a big imbalance issue.

Here's my idea of a buddy-buddy Smn & pet idea: have it where Smn only need to put one Dot on the target and the Dot can stack on itself, and with each stack your pet hits harder on that target like doing 700+. But ideas like this can't happen as long as Sch is holding back Smn from truly being something great, and I wish SE would do something about.

Those are absurd ideas anyway. The difference between BLM and SMN DPS is around 40. Close that gap in one way or another and it's fine.

They said this is what they're doing right now because the expansion is so close and there's a lot of changes in it so they don't want to change something now to have it ruin what they have planned for the expansion. So, Summoner is being updated, Skill and Spell Speed are being changed as well. So who knows what they have planned and I'm excited to see what happens! :)

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Originally Posted by Brianmj

You don't like the current Summoner? Don't play it. Try out the Summoner in FF11 or wait for Final Fantasy 17 Online. Leave the current incarnation as is.

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Thank you. Yes, please leave Smn ALONE.

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Originally Posted by Lancet

snip

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Adorable.

I'm going to name you Akiza 2.

After that patch notes reading and the hot fix smn got I have no doubt that smn and sch will get separated. And one or the other or both will get over haul but it seems more and more SE is going to remove classes from game and it will just be jobs.

Personally I don't care how they change SMN as long as I get to summon Carbuncles as pets.

Here's an idea: how about if they made Enkindle tie in with aetherflow. Like every time you gain a full stack of aetherflow you have a 40% chance to gain a free Enkindle.

Potentially OP

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Originally Posted by Sanguisio

Potentially OP

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How so? Enkindle is just 10 potency below flare, and flare is apart of Blm's normal AoE rotation.

How is having Enkindle proc and have a 40% of chance of gaining a free Enkindle when I can triple Flare on Black Mage with convert.

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Originally Posted by Bishop81

Personally I don't care how they change SMN as long as I get to summon Carbuncles as pets.

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Honestly I could see them re-adding Carby as SCH 3rd pet. In fact FFTA had a pseudo Carbuncle / fairy mix. It's not the preferred look of carby but as a concept it could happen. Plus traditional carby abilities were also a buff.

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...-Carbuncle.jpg

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Originally Posted by Bigcat9715

I want you to go fully level your BLM to 50, so you can see the difference between SMN & BLM with your own eyes. No matter how much you put into playing Smn the job will never be in the same ball park as BLM hell Smn is in the parking lot of the Ball park. No matter if it's ST or AOE in a single rotation BLM can hit up to 5k+ that is an imbalance between the two. You know why that is? It's because Yoshi-P mains BLM, that's right the guy that runs FF14 mains a BLM just like the dude that runs Wow and the Mages in that game are OP as well. It's a classic case of favoritism. I was just like you only playing Smn thinking if I try my best I can be as good as any BLM, boy was I wrong. The only attacks that hit for 1K in the Smn arsenal is Fester (with all 3 DoTs up) and Enkindle(5 min CD). When BLM has Astral 3 ever cast of fire anything or flare hits for 1k+ they become as powerful as the end game bosses. I'm not trying to flame you I love being a Smn as much as you do, and if there wasn't anything wrong with the job I would be with you on this, but this is a big imbalance issue.

Here's my idea of a buddy-buddy Smn & pet idea: have it where Smn only need to put one Dot on the target and the Dot can stack on itself, and with each stack your pet hits harder on that target like doing 700+. But ideas like this can't happen as long as Sch is holding back Smn from truly being something great, and I wish SE would do something about.

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Got THM to 27. I can't do it. I can't level a class that I don't enjoy. THM is mind-numbingly boring. BLM could do twice what SMN does, it wouldn't matter to me. Speaking of which arent they balanced by their low damage ice spells? How much do their ice spells hit for?

If jobs are suppose to be competitive with one another, if this is an actual thing in MMOs, then I'm sure any major damage gaps between the two job will be corrected in the expansion regardless of the bias the producer has. Whatever high Yoshida gets from playing top damage caster has to be ancillary to the satisfaction of the player base. I'd be with everyone on this, but the community is basing their info on an illegal tool, a supposedly inaccurate one at that. I don't know how else to handle it.

The main complaint since 2.4 was that there were mp issues in FCoB. Hopefully this hotfix rectified it. The other was spell speed. Since then we've learned that spell speed isn't as useless as we thought is was. It may not have the same value as crit or det, but no we should no longer avoid it "like the plague".

I do like your 40% chance of a free Enkindle with using Aetherflow

Really the downtime from being in umbral ice is quite small, it usually coincides with recasting thunder anyway so you aren't really losing out on much. The main weakness of BLM is movement. BLM is basically a stationary turret that if able to stand in place can put out incredible numbers. Most fights do require movement though, which is where SMN excel. You can run around like a maniac as a SMN and not lose too much of your dps, but a BLM will.

To be honest I feel like BLM is a bit overpowered even just from having Manawall and Manaward by itself is pretty awesome. Being able to nullify both physical and magical attacks is just so useful. When I play my SMN I find myself automatically going to hit my keybind for Manawall or Manaward just to remember i'm a SMN who only has Titan for defense.

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Originally Posted by Deifact

To be honest I feel like BLM is a bit overpowered even just from having Manawall and Manaward by itself is pretty awesome. Being able to nullify both physical and magical attacks is just so useful. When I play my SMN I find myself automatically going to hit my keybind for Manawall or Manaward just to remember i'm a SMN who only has Titan for defense.

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IKR, sometimes I wish SE had made SMN cross class with thaumaturge and conjurer instead of thaumaturge and archer. Stoneskin would have came in handy so many times.

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Originally Posted by Deifact

Really the downtime from being in umbral ice is quite small, it usually coincides with recasting thunder anyway so you aren't really losing out on much. The main weakness of BLM is movement. BLM is basically a stationary turret that if able to stand in place can put out incredible numbers. Most fights do require movement though, which is where SMN excel. You can run around like a maniac as a SMN and not lose too much of your dps, but a BLM will.

To be honest I feel like BLM is a bit overpowered even just from having Manawall and Manaward by itself is pretty awesome. Being able to nullify both physical and magical attacks is just so useful. When I play my SMN I find myself automatically going to hit my keybind for Manawall or Manaward just to remember i'm a SMN who only has Titan for defense.

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Movement doesn't affect Black Mage as much as people think it does. Heavy movement fights have a minimal impact on Black Mage Dps since the 2.2 buff

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Movement doesn't affect Black Mage as much as people think it does. Heavy movement fights have a minimal impact on Black Mage Dps since the 2.2 buff

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This is true of BLM's that know what they are doing. Personally I never had a problem with movement but I think BLM can be affected by movement a lot with someone who doesn't have the ins and outs mastered. While it is true that a SMN can just throw up some dots and still do respectable DPS, a BLM that has half a clue of what they are doing will still be able to crush a SMN. This is coming from someone who loves BLM and will always love BLM. SMN's do need some love. Or maybe fights will change and SMN will reign supreme again.

One thing I don't know if a lot of people take into account is the games current Meta. With the way fights work right now SMN isn't the better caster but even without chainging their class and adding buffs but instead changing how fights progress you could do a lot that would affect them positively. Think of a fight like Leviathan. Have there be adds spread out across the room that aren't going to be moved or can't be moved in range of the boss. All of a sudden SMN can have dots rolling on everything and a BLM won't be able to do much other than focus one down at a time. Obviously, there can be a mana issue present with SMN here but with any real downtime (ala T13 dive-bombs) that argument becomes null.