ARR often feels very contradictory in its design (long)

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Originally Posted by Whiz

Please just quit...trust no one cares.

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why not you? no one would miss you either.

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Originally Posted by EvokerKeii

I love how people urge others to quit if they don't like it.
As if they see the people abandoning in lifeboats as shedding excess weight to keep the sinking ship afloat.

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I was replying to him in another thread. Well, to him an MMO spiking to 700k pop for 3 months, then crashing and becoming a F2P game in 2 years is "having a good run" (Rift). I guess all is going well for him with FFXIV, and us that want longevity should just "quit the game".

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Originally Posted by Neralyte

People seem to be lamenting 1.0 and completely forgetting what a nightmare it was and why there were so few dedicated players that actually stuck around. While I agree with OP that there are issues with the game in it's current state, it is still a far cry from the mess people are lovingly comparing it to.

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One nice thing about 1.0 was that it was free for over a year and people could take a break from it without the stigma of "quitting" by canceling their subscription. Lots of people took weeks or months off and came back. It was great. We knew it was bad. It was easy and OK to accept that we "burnt out" or weren't having fun. We knew it was getting better (we even had roadmaps and timetables :cool:).

It looks like quite a few people on these forums could benefit by doing the same. SE loses a few months subscriptions, but gains long-term as people return for new content, or on-topic, return to see these great systems improved. Even if SE says "OMG yes, you're right!" on some of these, it might take 6 months to roll them out, if they haven't started designing the changes on their own already.

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Originally Posted by Neralyte

[Crafting] has been fleshed out far greater than other MMOs and should really be one of the games strengths. Instead we feel this hollow accomplishment, like we've done something great by maxing out a crafting class and it all feels worthwhile but just quickly fades into obscurity since nothing is required from them.

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Another amazing feature of the crafting system is cross-class abilities (yes, even in crafting). Leveling a different crafting class, even just to Lv15, can give abilities that are extremely useful in many crafting classes. Some even form a matching pair of abilities, like Inner Quiet (all classes) + Rumination (from Carpenter), for example. As said before, it's such an amazing system yet the game/economy doesn't really support it fully.

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Originally Posted by Jubez187

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i agree with you 100%.
the game is systematic has nothing to do with fun.

atleast EQnext is coming, no endgame to worry about or paying a sub hope they stick to there ideas.

I have to say, the Op has worded these concerns better than I have. I hope we can get a response to this.

Where is SE's response? This post has been up for days with 281 likes.

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Originally Posted by Bita

Where is SE's response? This post has been up for days with 281 likes.

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I was waiting on them to say something that weekend when the mods responded to a lot of threads. Just something of acknowledgement. :< The op made some very, very good points.

I actually afk from ARR after playing it for a month and beat titan, sometimes I log in but just for event.
Although I've got a relic and the white ravens, my favorite classes are still crafting, I like collecting gils.
Currently his game has nothing but dungeons, crafting and gathering takes no role in end game.
Speaking about the LOL housing system, how many of them have been actually sold in legacy servers?
Looks like Yoshi doesn't know we spent a lot of time earning gils in the past 2 years, or just ignored it,
did he forget who supported him till the end of 1.0?

ARR is not the game I want.

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Originally Posted by Orta

Speaking about the LOL housing system, how many of them have been actually sold in legacy servers?
Looks like Yoshi doesn't know we spent a lot of time earning gils in the past 2 years, or just ignored it,
did he forget who supported him till the end of 1.0?

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FYI: There's a thread where people are reporting that: How many houses does your server have?. Basically it seems to be 5-10 per world.

Housing pricing is yet another contradictory policy. It's a new, highly-anticipated and promoted feature, yet Yoshi-P admitted that housing prices had been set high to prevent sales at first. Even in an interview said the initial price was set at a point "where no one will purchase".

If you haven't read SE's explanations, the reasons are that their support servers don't have much capacity, but they released it anyway. He said after 2-3 months the capacity will be in place, and they have even put in place a schedule to chop 80% and 90% off legacy world housing prices by mid-March (the 3-month mark).

I agree without exception to the well-written OP. In addition to what has been discussed I find I miss open world content for the self-challenging aspect of the game in so much as I used to love to take my Ninja in FFXI and have a wander around Ifrit's Cauldron in the hopes of finding the NM scorpion up so I could try and solo it or taking down Charybdis duo with a Red Mage friend. There's literally nothing in this game that gives me that mixture of fear and exultation in the current open world content.

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Originally Posted by Zeno_McDohl

I'll give some examples:

The biggest is the Armory System. One of the game's major selling points. The idea is (at least how it's described on the main website) that, one, you can play every role on a single character, and two, can mix and match skills. But as we've seen at every point, they're intent on designing content lockouts (Coil once a week, Crystal Tower once a week, Extreme Primals once a week, treasure maps once a day, beastmen camps once a day) around individual characters. Not role based as would compliment this design choice. You're actually punished in a sense for making use of the Armory System in that having alt characters per class avoids the lockouts.

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Just because you can choose to play every class doesn't mean you get to end-game raid every class simultaneously. That's not how it works. SE gives you the choice to choose-so choose...and live with the choice. So you can't have your cake at eat it too. It's not a design flaw. If you want to do CT os a WHM you can, if you want to run coil the same week as a BRD you can. You just can't powergear them at the same time in both. You have the easy option to gear up every role in Darklight gear, and then you have to choose.

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Additionally, the idea that classes can 'cross class' skills from other classes is greatly stunted in numerous ways. For one, classes are built around a very central rotation. It makes it hard for cross class skills to function beyond fairly generic buffs like Raging Strikes because you can never differ from the core idea of the class. In 1.0, ignoring the critical reception for a moment, the class design was built around the idea of cross classing skills. People felt that characters became too samey and ended up not caring for it, but the point is they had a vision and designed around it. In ARR, it feels like they simply disliked the armory system but felt obligated to keep it. It doesn't mesh with the game well at all.

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Trust me as a BRD I wish I had more options to put in my rotation and I love invigorate as a cross-class skill. I use it all the itme. But I don't use the melee stuff because I'm ranged. There is s a limit to what you can do with these cross-class abilities and that doesn't even consider balance between the classes. Just think if Monks could use the straight shot and put a perpetual +10% crit chance ontop of their skill and strength enhancements in their rotations. People would scream injustice because they'd be too OP. Balance is always a ticky subject and SE could definitely improve in this area but developing special abilites for one class that wouldn't be exploited by another is a tricky subject.

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And then you have crafting and gathering. Compared to most MMO's, these systems are really fleshed out in ARR. There's a lot of depth there. There's almost more crafting classes than battle classes, they have their own skill sets, their own gear, hundreds of recipes and materials... yet they are intent on making crafting and gathering have no place within the game. They don't want players forced into it, they feel as if they don't want players to avoid running dungeons for gear, they feel as if a strong player market promotes RMT abuse, so they've made it completely arbitrary and bypassable. Why put all of this effort into their crafting and gathering systems if they don't intend people to take full advantage of it? In my own world, if I were directing ARR, I would take this massive strength and roll with it. I would push the game heavily around crafting and gathering and player economy, simply because, hey, I have this really well done crafting and gathering aspect of my game.

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Because they don't want to screw the players even more. People are ok interacting with a system with fixed costs and prices. They aren't with a system that fluctuates. Gatherers jack craft crafters, who in turn jack customers. The prices are way out of sync with SE price menu. Thanks to the beast quests I can buy velveteen cloth for 169 gil, but the cheapest diremite web it costs to make it was 220 gil/ea on the auction house-and you need 2! If gear progression was dependent on crafters you'd have the chaos we had at the beginning where people are charging 1 million gil for 2-star gear when the average person making it to level 50 has 250k via the main storyline. How does one raid legitimately under such conditions. The answer is that most will not be alble to. If crafters charged reasonable prices for items you cnould build a progression system around them, but the simple fact is they don't. They jack the customer and making player-crafting the vehicle for game progression would be a disaster.

However, that does not mean crafting does not have a place in this game. It's market is a secondary market, alt-gear and housing supplies. Lots of people are still grinding alts and since you can't FATE grind to 50 in your birthday suit anymore people will need gear on the way to 50. Lots of people claim that housing supplies are wortthless today because FC already have crafters in guild to make their items. That is true, but when the individual housing opens up in a few months, the sky will be the limit because all of those people who "skipped" crafting are going to need their wares unless they want their new house to be 1 empty room.

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And taking that further, I'll bring up Dye and Materia. Both systems that form the game's biggest fountain of potential depth and customization, both visually and mechanically. They designed these systems and advertised them heavily...but pigeonholed them into an aspect of the game they clearly don't want people to use. Both dye and materia only apply to gear that is crafted (Mostly), and since they don't want people to progress their characters with crafting and gathering, both systems are doomed to go widely unused. Why take the time to develop three massive concepts and purposely build them to be unusable? Crating, materia, and Dye together have such a massive pool of depth. The game could be designed around crafting and materia with the systems they've built and could truly work. But they didn't.

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And are completely superficial. Whether i have a pink, jet-black, or orange Artemis bow, you still have an Artemis bow. HQ crafted gear has the same primary stats as green dungeon gear and you have materia slots and dye to customize it. So if you really want it that badly you can get it, it's just that you'd have to make it yourself or pay someone gil for it. It just doesn't drop in a dungeon. That's the real grievance here. It's not as easy or cheap as a 30-minute dungeon grind. Could they revamp gear sets and put a dye slot and remove the pre-assigned materia contribution? Maybe, maybe it will come in a forhtcoming patch. The option to customize stats and color exist and you can use it on gear at any level sub ilevel 80.. All it takes is a a little effort.

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And finally I'll talk about the open world. The biggest, or second biggest complaint about the game's original release was its world design. How there wasn't much to see or do and it was visually uninteresting. So they literally made a new one...and then decided they didn't want people to play in it. They don't want players 'monopolizing' open world content, so they want everything instanced. The open world loses all meaning once you finish the story by design. I adore the open world in this game, but from mounts and teleporting, to cramped maps and numerous camps, and the complete lack of threat from mobs, the entire game's world comes off as even more sterile then its predecessor. While 1.0 was heavily copied and pasted, there were elements in its design that made it a tangible experience. Mobs were dangerous, there were rare things to hunt, you had to travel it to reach content. Why, why take the effort of making something as visually rich as ARR's open world when you don't want players to spend time in it?

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And this is where we differ. I was totally disenchanted with the 4 minutes of running it took to go from Grindaria to Brentbranch or the 15 minute run to Quarry mill. Sure it was big, but it shouldn't be big just for big's sake. Also, let's be honest here, the graphics for these extended areas sucked. SE chose to go condensed and pretty and I'm glad they did. Sure the monsters aren't that challenging, but then again 1.0 wasn't that challenging either. Some people think open worlds give some tangible benefit to the MMOs experience. Personally, I think it's just an excuse for crappy coding.

I agree with most of the OP's concerns.

The one thing I will add is SE's very silent stance on bot's that are blatently abusing the market boards and running around the open world on a very consistant basis.

SE has been very vocal in going after RMT (which is good), but, they have been very quiet about going after gathering bots that are destroying the in-game economy.

Someone mentioned a roadmap. A roadmap (like FFXI has, a feature roadmap) isn't really the solution. Throwing a bunch of features in is great, but that isn't the same thing as having direction.

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Originally Posted by OldGeezer

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whats the point of the armory system then? when u have to ultimately choose which one to play in the end? its just dumb.

We need to keep this on top until we hear a response from SE. Satisfying or not it will help allot of people understand their intentions with the future of this game.

+1 daily bump to usher in better fleshed out open world content and meaningful crafting. I'm not excited at all to explore, there is no danger i am practically invincible in every corner of the open realm.

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Originally Posted by Axidrain

whats the point of the armory system then? when u have to ultimately choose which one to play in the end? its just dumb.

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You can run CT with all of them, and get tombs for all of them. You just can't get gear drops for all of them during the same week. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

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Originally Posted by OldGeezer

You can run CT with all of them, and get tombs for all of them. You just can't get gear drops for all of them during the same week. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

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I've been noticing a trend where everyone who says this only has one job at level cap/endgame...

It's sOoooooooooooooooooooo True and it's all Soooooooooooooooooo Bad.

Funny story the last 14 didn't have these problems LOL

SE just went from a great game that just lacked content and had many technical problems but the actual game it'self was fine to me, everything in the old game worked and made perfect sense in the world and everything had a purpose.

to ARR, a game that has way too many game breaking flaws for my liking and almost all the things the game offers have no real purpose or use to them.

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Originally Posted by Ri_ri

I've been noticing a trend where everyone who says this only has one job at level cap/endgame...

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Doesn't change the fact that it's true.

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Originally Posted by OldGeezer

Doesn't change the fact that it's true.

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I think we all agree on that.

Hence the title of the thread. It's contradictory to have a feature, then gimp the ones who use that feature.

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Originally Posted by OldGeezer

You can run CT with all of them, and get tombs for all of them. You just can't get gear drops for all of them during the same week. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

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Yes, actually you can- by creating alts- JUST LIKE IN EVERY OTHER GAME.

What is the point of the armory system??

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Originally Posted by OldGeezer

Just because you can choose to play every class doesn't mean you get to end-game raid every class simultaneously. That's not how it works. SE gives you the choice to choose-so choose...and live with the choice. So you can't have your cake at eat it too. It's not a design flaw. If you want to do CT os a WHM you can, if you want to run coil the same week as a BRD you can. You just can't powergear them at the same time in both. You have the easy option to gear up every role in Darklight gear, and then you have to choose.

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Just an example:
You can do all of that, you just logout and create a new character.

Main character warrior: Do weekly coil run, cap myth, daily treasure, daily quests, weekly CT. Logout and select your second character

Dragoon: Do weekly coil run, cap myth, daily treasure, daily quests, weekly CT. Logout and select your third character

White Mage: Do weekly coil run, cap myth, daily treasure, daily quests, weekly CT. Logout and select your fourth character and then repeat for however much you want to play.

Minus maybe daily quests for "rep" or coil for gear funneling "abuse" all those caps could've just been integrated onto the armory system with unique lockouts to each class as opposed to complete character lockout.

good lord if i could thumbs this up harder i would. glad to see there is such a massive agreement on something i keep talking to my friends about, thinking "maybe this is just how all new MMOs are and i just have to deal with it i guess". Good to see im far from the only person who thinks like the OP.

Honestly 1.0 by the end had something great being set up and its a damn shame they threw it all away for what we have now, i actually sometimes look around if there is for some crazy reason a 1.2x private server up just to go back to how it was. I hate this feeling that i just keep waiting for something to happen and SE finally decides to fix the issues with the game and have a clear direction, but i have this feelin deep in the pit of my stomache that we wont ever see much more than what we have. More of the same crap with plenty of lock outs and lots of "how hard can you dodge those red circle" fights.

If Yoshi saw half the stuff in this thread he would probably feel slightly dissapointed that he had all the opportunity in the world to make something great, but he let trying to please investors and all the different players all at once get to him and ended up with a confusing mess. Is there still potential here to make it great? very much so, but we wont see it for quite some time most likely (or be told about it honestly) and by the time they get their ideas sorted out, this will be another game with a few servers up in the giant crowd of F2P MMOs.

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Originally Posted by OldGeezer

Just because you can choose to play every class doesn't mean you get to end-game raid every class simultaneously. That's not how it works. SE gives you the choice to choose-so choose...and live with the choice. So you can't have your cake at eat it too. It's not a design flaw. If you want to do CT os a WHM you can, if you want to run coil the same week as a BRD you can. You just can't powergear them at the same time in both. You have the easy option to gear up every role in Darklight gear, and then you have to choose.

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Except, if we had each of our jobs on a different character we would be able to end-game raid every class simultaneously (after having also spent the time on each needed to gather their cross-class abilities), as in every MMO that doesn't encourage (again, cross-class skills) stacking classes into a single character without locking that character, rather than its classes (which in any other MMO would be each separate characters), out.

That said, I still don't have that large an issue with CT's lockouts. But its design is certainly contradictory to its given intentions.

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Originally Posted by OldGeezer

Trust me as a BRD I wish I had more options to put in my rotation and I love invigorate as a cross-class skill. I use it all the itme. But I don't use the melee stuff because I'm ranged. There is s a limit to what you can do with these cross-class abilities and that doesn't even consider balance between the classes. Just think if Monks could use the straight shot and put a perpetual +10% crit chance ontop of their skill and strength enhancements in their rotations. People would scream injustice because they'd be too OP. Balance is always a ticky subject and SE could definitely improve in this area but developing special abilites for one class that wouldn't be exploited by another is a tricky subject.

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In Bard's case, just changing out how Straight Shot works to a more fluid 'Grouping of Shots', etc, mechanic would probably help with your rotation a lot. (Critical hit) rating nominalizations might also help thereafter to add use to more than what is presently just HS, rebuffs, and Straighter Shot procs.

[Rating is gathered by, say, non-crits, while crits consume rating--essentially, the longer you go without a critical strike, the higher chance you have of getting one; that chance (rating) is not consumed by auto-crits, a bit less rating is consumed by minor hits, and a bit more by larger hits (to the same average), but a secondary stat or hidden mechanic can also thereby improve the critical chance proportionate to potential damage increase (potency), while another can even increase the level of nominalization, usable in basically auto-critting within a certain rotational string.]

It would still be nice to have more than just 1-3 direct damage abilities though, depending on how you personally define them, (just one primary use, at any rate), and for our cross-class skills to be worth something again; I miss their burst on any class, tbh. If Skill Speed would effect Blunt Arrow, Repelling Shot, and (most importantly) at least slightly effect Invigorate, that would probably help a lot too. (Likewise with Invigorate on other classes.)

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Originally Posted by OldGeezer

Because they don't want to screw the players even more. People are ok interacting with a system with fixed costs and prices. They aren't with a system that fluctuates. Gatherers jack crafters, who in turn jack customers. The prices are way out of sync with SE price menu. Thanks to the beast quests I can buy velveteen cloth for 169 gil, but the cheapest diremite web it costs to make it was 220 gil/ea on the auction house-and you need 2! If gear progression was dependent on crafters you'd have the chaos we had at the beginning where people are charging 1 million gil for 2-star gear when the average person making it to level 50 has 250k via the main storyline. How does one raid legitimately under such conditions. The answer is that most will not be able to. If crafters charged reasonable prices for items you could build a progression system around them, but the simple fact is they don't. They jack the customer and making player-crafting the vehicle for game progression would be a disaster.

However, that does not mean crafting does not have a place in this game. It's market is a secondary market, alt-gear and housing supplies. Lots of people are still grinding alts and since you can't FATE grind to 50 in your birthday suit anymore people will need gear on the way to 50. Lots of people claim that housing supplies are worthless today because FC already have crafters in guild to make their items. That is true, but when the individual housing opens up in a few months, the sky will be the limit because all of those people who "skipped" crafting are going to need their wares unless they want their new house to be 1 empty room.

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And are completely superficial. Whether i have a pink, jet-black, or orange Artemis bow, you still have an Artemis bow. HQ crafted gear has the same primary stats as green dungeon gear and you have materia slots and dye to customize it. So if you really want it that badly you can get it, it's just that you'd have to make it yourself or pay someone gil for it. It just doesn't drop in a dungeon. That's the real grievance here. It's not as easy or cheap as a 30-minute dungeon grind. Could they revamp gear sets and put a dye slot and remove the pre-assigned materia contribution? Maybe, maybe it will come in a forthcoming patch. The option to customize stats and color exist and you can use it on gear at any level sub ilevel 80.. All it takes is a a little effort.

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^ This, for the most part. Though really, it's not the level of importance crafting has in the game that bugs me (I think it's just fine, given what it supplies--though that isn't really much...), so much as that it could be a lot more interestingly integrated into the game. It's similar to how our cross-class abilities fall short. There's no interplay between a sword you've made for yourself and using it, and it's not like you could actually personalize a craft anyways. As a crafter, dungeon drops and their designs while adventuring should be playing into your own ideas (or more concretely, abilities, recipes, etc.) as you come across them and, say, 'analyze' them. Instead, crafting is consistently just sitting at a portadesk and cutting or hammering balls of light. You don't get to know your crafting processes nor the resultant product any better through the materials, and there are never choices within a certain level and class. Rather than part of the game, it feels more like a mini-game that shares an online marketplace with this one.

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Originally Posted by OldGeezer

And this is where we differ. I was totally disenchanted with the 4 minutes of running it took to go from Grindaria to Brentbranch or the 15 minute run to Quarry mill. Sure it was big, but it shouldn't be big just for big's sake. Also, let's be honest here, the graphics for these extended areas sucked. SE chose to go condensed and pretty and I'm glad they did. Sure the monsters aren't that challenging, but then again 1.0 wasn't that challenging either. Some people think open worlds give some tangible benefit to the MMOs experience. Personally, I think it's just an excuse for crappy coding.

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I have to agree with you in many respects here, but I do think there is a definite beauty in large landscapes when they are done well. I'd agree that most of the early Shroud was disenchanting, though I did enjoy it, probably for the simple fact that it had Turning Leaf, Treespeak, and Sorrel Havens. But I'd likely enjoy each of those even more as their separate zones, and preferably without being filled to the brim with camps, NPCs, and various doodads. But to me there is a beauty in a smooth but transitive flow of terrain, rather than the sharp and sudden contrast between zones (we could say the same for the border between Drybone and Tranquil before). If smallish zones can still pull that off, then great. But I'd sooner take a zone that's a bit scare of manmade features and takes more than 4 minutes to ride across than one that's built a town, keep, or hamlet half a mile from the one before.

Additionally, a lot of the problems the Shroud had before hasn't improved. A few zones are still awkwardly closed off or labyrinthine. A good deal of the areas here feels like a walk to a vista on some peninsula.

You can't gear up all jobs at the same time but you can gear up some jobs at the same time. You can't gear up all jobs on the same content but if you do all the content available you can gear each job in it's own way.

The easiest one is philosophy tomes, can gear up any job to 70 easily.

Now with CT you can gear up one job with i80 gear in 6 weeks(armor side) but still need accessories from other events.

With coil you have a means to gear up one job to i90 but it's all random in hoping your loot drops.

Then there is mythology with the current cap being 450 as a means to gear another job.

Basically while you are gearing up one job with CT gear, you can buy gear for another job with mytho and if you do coil you can gear yet another job with that(if the armor drops).

So it is possible to gear up multiple jobs at once you just can't expect it to be as fast as if you focus on only one job.

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Originally Posted by Ri_ri

I think we all agree on that.

Hence the title of the thread. It's contradictory to have a feature, then gimp the ones who use that feature.

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Apples and oranges. Armoury works as designed. Raid lockout works as designed. They are two separate things. There is no contradiction.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

Yes, actually you can- by creating alts- JUST LIKE IN EVERY OTHER GAME.

What is the point of the armory system??

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Originally Posted by kokorozashii

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It's still 1 run/piece per character. Just because you do an end-run aorund by grinding another character doesn't change this fact. You still can't have both pieces on the same character can you? Why should that invalidate the raid lockout because you grind an entirely new chatacter or have anything to do with the function of the armoury system? They are two separate issues.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

Yes, actually you can- by creating alts- JUST LIKE IN EVERY OTHER GAME.

What is the point of the armory system??

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pretty much what im thinking. But in general the class system should just go and just go for jobs. At this point even classes find no use past 30 with much weaker stats and even worse the fact that cross classing most skills is entirely useless. WHen my friend first came on as a 50 MRD, he was baffled that he doesnt even have the MP to even raise, and his cures were utterly useless to say the least while being only able to cast a few at most. anything going between DoW and DoM was a waste of time, while 80% of each classes skills on another class were either unusable or so crappy on another class is wasnt worth wasting your time.

If they had some balls they would just wipe the class system and expand on jobs alone, give people that are ARC ample time to unlock both jobs before removing the system. The game hardly relys on it so why have it? And preferably clean house before more jobs get branched off.

Can you imagine they put Dark-knight off MRD or Samurai off DRG and with both your stuck with axes and spears? At some point its just gonna end up being stupid or they will need classes for just about every job...again making it pointless.

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Originally Posted by kokorozashii

Just an example:
You can do all of that, you just logout and create a new character.

Main character warrior: Do weekly coil run, cap myth, daily treasure, daily quests, weekly CT. Logout and select your second character

Dragoon: Do weekly coil run, cap myth, daily treasure, daily quests, weekly CT. Logout and select your third character

White Mage: Do weekly coil run, cap myth, daily treasure, daily quests, weekly CT. Logout and select your fourth character and then repeat for however much you want to play.

Minus maybe daily quests for "rep" or coil for gear funneling "abuse" all those caps could've just been integrated onto the armory system with unique lockouts to each class as opposed to complete character lockout.

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people are right with the whole lock out, your better off doing alts like most MMOs force you to because you can gear them all up at the same time, here its backwards, all on one guy, but wait weeks upon weeks to put them in relic/aliagn/CT gear. Its all there for the sake of making the game last longer because there is not much endgame....and you get to it in stupidly short times (no idea why they make it so quick)

Its the reason most MMOs dont last, people think the large crowd is casuals, but casuals in general dont like MMOs because they take time, which is why every time MMOs pop these days people are sick of them in 6 months and they end up f2p...way more people play more like hardcore (or deticate more time to than they really think). Make leveling to cap take a while longer, just throw some stuff that takes some brains to do in-between or are worth doing the whole time going up so people dont have a reason to rush.

I fully agree with the points discussed in the article. I've been playing this game since ver 1.0 (but didn't really played much because the game was obviously incomplete) and I do agree that the developers had some direction they were aiming for at that time, but in ARR its direction is a bit ambiguous. Actually right now, it feels like the game is just turning into a ridiculous fanservice where elements of other ff games are being mindlessly put in, causing an identity issue for the game itself, and also chipping away some the unique world/realm of FFXIV that ver. 1.0 established. The shallow combat and ability system of the game is also quickly becoming a turn off and feels like it was just rushed to give the game a viable combat system. For now, I'll stick for a while and see whether the developers are planning to improve/fix the game's current flaws or if they're just going to keep these things as is.

You can add mounts to your list of contradicting content.

Mounts made more sense in the last game because the world was massive and you were constantly doing outside content, ARR isn't even half the size and you don't really need mounts at all because outside world content is useless once everything is max level.

Mounts in ARR are as useless as Minions it's epic fail, it's just more pointless flashy crap to make people feel good about earning something with no real use in the game.
Mounts were so much more bad ass in the old game as far as there purpose was concerned and the use you got out of them.
Also with that old open world they could have even added flying mounts.

The list goes on ARR is really just A Realm Rejected.

A hardcore MMO gamer has more knowledge about how an MMO should be put together than this, this game hurts my brain it's that dumb.

Well done Video #1

Well done Video #2

Well done Video #3

Well done video #4

Thought I'd share these videos with everyone. I didn't have any part in making them but they are great and should shed some light on why I'm no longer going to pay a subscription to this game.

Edit : I'd advise watching them in the order I posted but meh. It's all on youtube so don't feel like your going to any untrusted site.

Posted in another thread but thought it should be posted in both to get a larger audience....yes, I feel it should be shared.

I'm not trying to influence anyone to unsub, just saying that I won't pay for this game anymore because of what I consider good reasons. Know what assuming does?

Way to save $10-$15 per month man you sure showed ______ who's boss!

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Originally Posted by OldGeezer

It's still 1 run/piece per character. Just because you do an end-run aorund by grinding another character doesn't change this fact. You still can't have both pieces on the same character can you? Why should that invalidate the raid lockout because you grind an entirely new chatacter or have anything to do with the function of the armoury system? They are two separate issues.

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WoW: 1 character per class. 10 class lockouts per account, essentially. Each class gets loot per week.

FFXIV: 1 character for all classes. 1 lockouts per account. 1 class gets loot per week.

You can avoid this by leveling alts, but then you'll still have to pool 31 or more levels into other classes in order to maximize the potential of the main class. Certainly, no one would want to gather 4050 mythology per week, but the armory system and raid lockouts are not separate issues. Anything that applies to multiple classes due to FFXIV's all-in-one armory system where it otherwise would not is thereby related. That's not to say that FFXIV gimps one's potential to level multiple classes generally. It is only the specific system they give that does so, and avoiding it, if one has the time, becomes the superior choice. "Here's your unique system. By the way, you won't be able to collect more that 450 myth per week if you use it."

Would really like to see a response to this, agree with many of the arguments the OP brings up. I think many would like to know exactly what direction they intend to take with the game.

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Originally Posted by Skotie

Would really like to see a response to this, agree with many of the arguments the OP brings up. I think many would like to know exactly what direction they intend to take with the game.

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I posted some things about the way I feel when it comes to how the devs handle these forums and here are some points from the thread I posted in.

1. SE are ignoring many serious issues that have reached very POPULAR likes and numbers and have had massive attention from the community.
There always putting random things that don't have anything to do with improving the game on the front page, giving them priority over forums that really are popular and actually knuckle down on real issues.

What is it about constructive criticism they can't handle exactly, is it simply so over bearing that it becomes easier for them to just sweep forums like this under the rug?

Even if massive numbers care about many of the issues being ignored by the devs, the devs are still giving more attention to very small positive threads.
It's a shame because many of these constructive threads could result in very positive things for ARR if given more attention.

2. They decide what they want the public to view and it's mostly silly things despite all the important things that are really being talked about the most but this seems to mean nothing of importance to them.

3. They simply hide from negativity instead of addressing it and perfecting there game.

4. I personally do not believe half the topics that make the front page are important enough that they needs to be on the front page at all, there are more important threads that get lost in the dark due to the Devs simply leaving them in the dark.

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Originally Posted by BloodMage

snip.

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I really think the devs think we want this to be a giant fan service game. HEY LOOK! we got meteria/limit-breaks/FF monsters/moogles/jobs/FATE bosses named from FFXI/Dungeons from other games...hell characters from other games...and on and on it goes. Some fan service is nice once in a long while, but having your own ideas is what made something like FFXI great...the damn game has a lore book (only in japan sadly) thats like phone book thick, there was just such a major effort to give the world its own history and machanics that are its own and not crap we have already seen to shove on the back of the box.

There's something I've noticed over the past month or so.
I always seem to see the same threads on the front page of the forums. This one, usually a couple of others. They're always there on the front page, usually near the top. However, whenever I check them, there's maybe one...possibly two new replies.
This indicates to me that the forums aren't very healthy. Even with all the over-the-top restrictions in place, the forums should be more busy the more players there are.
I'm not trying to say "OMG TEH GAME IS DYING!" but it does concern me.

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Originally Posted by Vandark

I posted some things about the way I feel when it comes to how the devs handle these forums and here are some points from the thread I posted in.

1. SE are ignoring many serious issues that have reached very POPULAR likes and numbers and have had massive attention from the community.
...

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Yah thinks like that "we would like to see NM's back" thread. That thing had over 3,000 likes and was over 300 pages long...and all we got was "no, we dont like people competing"....which i found F'n hilarious since they changed 1.2x's combat purely for the sake of making it viable for PvP, which we now have....so whats all this about anti-competition? If i find the thread il edit it into here.

Edit: nvm, we wont ever see that among a few others since they cleared a lot of the older posts out.

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Originally Posted by Zanfire

Yah thinks like that "we would like to see NM's back" thread. That thing had over 3,000 likes and was over 300 pages long...and all we got was "no, we dont like people competing"....which i found F'n hilarious since they changed 1.2x's combat purely for the sake of making it viable for PvP, which we now have....so whats all this about anti-competition? If i find the thread il edit it into here.

Edit: nvm, we wont ever see that among a few others since they cleared a lot of the older posts out.

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PVP looks like an after thought to be honest. "All the other MMOs have it, so we should too!".

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Originally Posted by Battlewrench

Well done Video #1

Well done Video #2

Well done Video #3

Well done video #4

Thought I'd share these videos with everyone. I didn't have any part in making them but they are great and should shed some light on why I'm no longer going to pay a subscription to this game.

Edit : I'd advise watching them in the order I posted but meh. It's all on youtube so don't feel like your going to any untrusted site.

Posted in another thread but thought it should be posted in both to get a larger audience....yes, I feel it should be shared.

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Thanks for posting these videos. Wish I could give you more likes. GREAT VIDS and soo soo so true.