A word to the Tanks out there.

By implication, you are saying you've never lost hate as a tank. Unless the "good tank" you refer to was some legend you had the pleasure of seeing from a distance one time.

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Originally Posted by Size

The tank that doesn't need training wheels is one that can keep the threat and survive despite what the DDs and healers are doing.

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I would like to see you tank 3-4 mobs when every dps goes all out on a different target from the start on. I really would like.
Marks are primary there because most DPS never heard of assist hotkey / macros^^
And because assist is shit anyway if you have a good tank that tabs.
Or to tell people to attack something first because it has badcastofdoom despite the fact whatever i tank (ak summoner mobs are a good example...they dont need tanking but still should die first if you want a fast run)

I have held threat on 3 or 4 mobs while everyone is going crazy on different ones (in 4 man groups, probably next to impossible for 8 man). However, it is usually more efficient (and much easier) to mark so that everyone burns down one at a time. This makes it easier for the healer as well because I will start taking less damage as each one falls. IMO, marking is more training wheels for dps than for the tank. Some of them can't figure out which ones to target without a big number over its head. When I don't mark and the dps all focus on one target anyway, especially if it's the one I used shield lob on to pull (this is a big indicator of which to kill first), I think "Ooo, I have some good dps this time." ;)

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Originally Posted by Rockhard12

Sorry to hijack the thread, but reading some of the replys has really amazed me.

My personal opinion is when you first to choose to play a tank there are certain unwritten responsibilites you take on, some of these are leading your group, knowing your dungeons (if not you learn them), knowing which mobs to pull and in what sequence, marking mobs and so on. Or at least this was how the old school tanks used to do it.

Whats happened???

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No it's not. Tanks having all the responsibility is just a PUG unwritten rule. It's not been the norm in any old school raiding I've ever done. Not in the original Everquest, EQ2, or WoW (in the early days - I abandoned WoW years ago.) Using my latest raiding experience as an example, EQ2, the raid leader called the shots if necessary (who never was the main tank), and when not necessary, the main assist selected dps targets (which was generally a dps class),an off tank was designated to grab adds, and the main tank usually focused on keeping boss aggro.

All raiders were required to do their home work on learning the strats. Everquest was the last game I played where enchanting/sleeping or root parking was the norm, and it was the job of the chanter or rooter to select their targets unless there was a good reason for the raid leader to specify. In WoW and EQ2, we usually just burned the adds down with AOEs if possible, and hence sleeping was just an annoyance that slowed things down.

Granted, that level of organization is too much to expect of PUGs, but that's exactly my point. Expecting the tank to do everything is just the default when the group doesn't know any better. As someone earlier pointed out, not marking mobs is the sign of bad tank, or a very good one (who is used to having better groups.)

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Originally Posted by Tommara

As someone earlier pointed out, not marking mobs is the sign of bad tank, or a very good one (who is used to having better groups.)

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Besides tanking in FFXI there was always someone marking the mobs to attack and it wasn't always the tank. Like Tommara said, the raid leader could be anyone who knows the instance.

I mark on the majority of my pulls and if you want to jump the gun as a dps, just expect that it might take me while to pull it off you once I realized you're not attacking my #1 mark.
I usually only have issues when I'm grouped with dps that are better geared than me and want to open up with their heavy hitting combos.

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Originally Posted by Size

I'll break it down for you:-

A tank that marks the targets is average. [Knows he needs training wheels and uses them]

A tank that doesn't mark the targets is either really bad... [Doesn't use training wheels, and doesn't know he needs them]

...or really good. [Doesn't need training wheels so doesn't use them]

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Sorry, but your logic kinda goes out the window if you are grouping with people more geared than you. Also, saying someone is average (marking) for trying to reassure that a run will go smoothly is pretty ridiculous if you ask me.

Hiya, At this level, I'm very thankful to my companion who helped, given tips unconditionally & guide me through thick & thin. And I'm still learning.
I'm not criticising anyone's role, please hear me out. It's emotionally exhausting and pressing PS3 button depressing. It's my first time on a MMO, a pet in everything.today PS3 L3 and R3 just lock-on and zoom right into the final boss twice! and I see nothing and it all went wrong. There is something mundane, stupid to learn and die for very simple and stupid ways and I don't expect anyone to comprehend it. I need the mistakes and the stupid stuff I do so I can make a note and a point what not to do.
Also, sometimes, people need to hold their pee in...it really goes damn wrong for this ridiculous pet tanker. So I learnt that too! SO if i don't queue as a pet tanker, I'm never gonna learn how to be great and I really want to be one.

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Originally Posted by MorbidAngel

Sorry, but your logic kinda goes out the window if you are grouping with people more geared than you. Also, saying someone is average (marking) for trying to reassure that a run will go smoothly is pretty ridiculous if you ask me.

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People who are better geared should have a clue and should be doing the marking, especially if the tank fails to do so.

Why are tanks expected to carry others through instances? Should we start charging DPS gil per run so you airheads stop being airheads? Sorry, but I can see many reasons why a tank may get frustrated and leave an instance. I did it on Qarn after realizing my two DPS and my WHM were vastly under geared, and even though I had told them in detail how the first and second boss went, they had multiple issues. After the 5th time they wiped on the second boss due to lack of paying attention and lack of DPS, I left. Why should I have to do all the heavy lifting while you sit there spamming all your shiny attacks? It goes both ways mate.

Does anyone else just use a '1' to mark a mob and nothing else? I feel that going '1,2,3' is kinda pointless when you can mark '1', then when that's dead put the '1' mark on the next one you focus on.