You might as well add an official DPS log to the game...

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Originally Posted by Connor

It’s hilarious to me that they literally design every role, every job, every encounter with one sole metric in mind (dps output), then offer absolutely no ‘legitimate’ way to actually see that one singular metric the entirety of the game checks. Lol.

And honestly the whole ‘let’s secretly allow these specific third party programs while claiming we don’t, but then we design every job and encounter specifically around the metrics that these third party programs display’ just seems incredibly dumb to me to be frank. Over just releasing their own that they can literally curate or restrict in any shape or form they see fit. But Naa, let’s just keep everyone relying on specific programs that ‘are-allowed-but-totally-aren’t’. What is they call it, an open secret?

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This also results in incredibly stupid discussions in JP where "Oh I sure don't know where you're getting these statistics from but since W1st raiders love AST no matter how much they buff WHM it clearly means WHM needs a raid buff". It's asinine.

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Originally Posted by Asako

Right, so how does an in game parser help with that? Your issue is you want a reason to bully people.

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Bro is ASSUMING in my replies right now.

I was once running Eden raids with guildies and randoms in a PF. One night, we got a Bard who would fire off LB1 every time it was available. After the first wipe, we politely asked him to stop. He was confused and asked why, since it seemed better to him to use LB more often. We told him that it's better value to use LB3 when it's available, especially since a healer could use it in an emergency. He stopped using LB1 every time, and because of that we were able to clear after a clutch healer LB3.

Imagine how many aspects of gameplay there are where a simple adjustment could be the difference between clearing and wiping, but aren't as visible as a LB?

Sorry you're sour, but not every critical interaction is 'bullying' or 'rude'.

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Originally Posted by Asako

You're free to create your own premades to avoid them.

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The above story was one of my premades.

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Originally Posted by Asako

I certainly hope you are not trying to compare Phys Ranged to Caster or BLM/PCT to SMN/RDM.

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Am... am I wrong to compare DPS with DPS? Am I missing something?

Or are you in support of the DPS tax that I thought was universally hated?

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Being realistic here, if anyone has gotten through 100 levels and cannot play their class fundamentally or the fundamentals of encounter mechanics (e.g., standing in fire all encounter) then I am sorry but in all likelihood those same players probably simply don't care and no amount of you screaming into the void about accountability is going to change that fact.

SE tried solving one of these problems silently already by lowering the skill floor and laziness still persisted. They would still persist even if SE gave you the tools, and gave you the green light to act as ruthless as possible

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Personally this is a big problem I have with making so much content solo-able in what is supposed to be an MMO. So many potential filters bypassed, so once it's time to pull up one's bootstraps and lock in, they have no idea what's going on. No wonder there are so many requests to make more content easier and solo-able.

Also, in what world would lowering the skill floor fix laziness anyway? If anything, it would give people the opportunity to be even lazier.

The only way to get people to stop being lazy is incentive, be it a loot incentive or a not-getting-kicked incentive. Another thing in the long list of meta game dev things that WoW learned in the womb but FFXIV still has yet to get a handle on.

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Originally Posted by Doki

Even without the official one, enough people:
1. Use fflogs \ Tomestone plugins
2. Your data is uploaded from THIER add-on without you even knowing
3. You join a PF, and are quickly removed without a word at all after they look you up with those tools.

You CAN remove yourself from both sites tracking via lodestone profile comments, but that shouldn't even be necessary. Also removing them will hide your profile, which again many snobbish people will just consider the same as showing an unfavorable parse.

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Report that PF then. That IS known harassment and against the TOS.

PS: If I ever find out they are doing that, my DPS becomes zero and they know it. I'll be filing the report during the dungeon/trial at that point.

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Originally Posted by Underscore

This raid tier, particularly M10S, has radicalized me into firmly believing that yes, logging should be officially implemented/allowed and even made mandatory for all players in high end content. Tomestone should effectively be added to the game itself, and you should be able to right-click on someone in party finder to see their prog point for a given fight. You should not be allowed to hide this information. Party Finder should have features to automatically filter players from even joining your party based on their prog point similar to item level requirements.

If the devs don't want this sort of "toxic" raiding environment, then they should stop designing fights in a way that encourages it. When every mechanic is a body check and requires perfect execution from all 8 players in order to clear the fight - when seven players can do everything perfectly and still get punished because of one player messing up - gatekeeping becomes a necessity for anyone who values their time and health.



Sorry, but the party leader was right to be wary here. They have no way of verifying that you're telling the truth, and have probably had their time wasted by prog liars before. You might just need to start logging.

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This is /endthread right here. Don't design content that depends on everyone performing and not give players the tool to help ensure that performance.

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Originally Posted by zarahleo

I joined a practice party the other day for m9s, I had already been to enrage multi times on that character with friends, I had already cleared m9s on an alt too, we dont use logging mods.

The leader of the party kicked us because tomestone said only 50% progress, he admitted this. I said "you do realise not every run is logged right?" He said "weak excuse, everyone logs".

The whole thing is toxic crap.
People who think like this need banned forever, the game would only get better by doing so.

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This is such an interesting response, because a more effective, in-game way to demonstrate your progress would have avoided this situation entirely.

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Originally Posted by UNDEAD10000

As long DPS log/meter is being used for toxicity then i always say BIG NO to DPS log/meter and it dosen't matter if the DPS log/meter is being made as private either when there will always be players who demands you to tell them your DPS numbers and if you won't say your DPS numbers then they instantly kick you out from the party.

And these DPS log/meter mods is one of the reasons why i simply refuse to do any endgame content when i simply don't want deal with toxicity.

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DPS meter could be good if it showed only YOUR dps. Maybe also % of how it relates to people who cleared this content.
Keyword: it only shows YOUR stuff. Others stuff should not be visible and should not be extractable by 3rd party tools either.

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Originally Posted by NegativeS

Personally this is a big problem I have with making so much content solo-able in what is supposed to be an MMO. So many potential filters bypassed, so once it's time to pull up one's bootstraps and lock in, they have no idea what's going on. No wonder there are so many requests to make more content easier and solo-able.

Also, in what world would lowering the skill floor fix laziness anyway? If anything, it would give people the opportunity to be even lazier.

The only way to get people to stop being lazy is incentive, be it a loot incentive or a not-getting-kicked incentive. Another thing in the long list of meta game dev things that WoW learned in the womb but FFXIV still has yet to get a handle on.

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IMO, the problem isn't whether it's solo-able or not, especially in the context of filtering out people, and to be honest, this game these days barely constitutes an MMO from the very fundamental design that the game actually follows... I think adding a solo element can be beneficial. Most people wouldn't even care about this MMO-factor if the game actually did a good job at being one in the first place.

The lower a skill floor, the easier something is to learn.. The easier something is to learn the more likely they are to actually engage... It's the same principle they followed when they completely nuked the crafting system. At least when going by your principle of them reaching level 100 and being so fundamentally bad

Depending on the content... They are either just not going to actually care about it (e.g., ignorance), or they are simply just going to move on and determine that the content is not for them, or conclude that the issue is not them, but either the content, or the other people in that content. If people had only gone through 30 hours, then I would feel differently. But after hundreds of hours..

Like, we are not in a game where resources are barren and rare to find. If someone cares, they are already going to have a modicum of fundamental understanding, if they don't already have that.. Then...

XIV and WoW have cultivated two entirely different mentalities, really. It's not something they will ever get a handle on, I don't think.

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Originally Posted by NegativeS

Personally this is a big problem I have with making so much content solo-able in what is supposed to be an MMO. So many potential filters bypassed, so once it's time to pull up one's bootstraps and lock in, they have no idea what's going on. No wonder there are so many requests to make more content easier and solo-able.

Also, in what world would lowering the skill floor fix laziness anyway? If anything, it would give people the opportunity to be even lazier.

The only way to get people to stop being lazy is incentive, be it a loot incentive or a not-getting-kicked incentive. Another thing in the long list of meta game dev things that WoW learned in the womb but FFXIV still has yet to get a handle on.

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You're not bullying -- you want people removed. The only "incentive" that gets people off their ass is effectively being "killed" if they don't.

ah the classic fflogs/parsing topic. buddy heres the reality. most players are... awful. 100% straight up some of the worst "gamers" i've ever seen. most would rather sit around and goon with mods instead of trying to improve. you know it. i know it. nobody wants to admit it though. if you've ever tried to pug anything beyond an expert roulette or even an occasional EX trial, you would know firsthand. people lie. people say they're pressing buttons (they aren't). people say they're at a certain prog point (they aren't). so i suppose sure if you wanna really drive another nail into this games coffin, go for it. otherwise leave things as they are cause right now its "dont ask dont tell" and it would only get worse (pugs vs statics) with an official parser.

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Originally Posted by TwiceDamned

You're not bullying -- you want people removed.

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Sure, if that's how you want to put it.

I've said the same thing in the past, and I stand by it: Certain games are made for certain people, and that's okay. The only games that try to be made for everyone are either slop, or dead.

People who don't care to improve probably shouldn't be running content in an MMO game, where their performance directly affects how much other people enjoy the game.

In a normal MMO, player-to-player friction is usually the filter that makes people realize either "that was fun! when's the next one?", or "wait a minute, I hate MMOs!".

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Originally Posted by NegativeS

Sure, if that's how you want to put it.

I've said the same thing in the past, and I stand by it: Certain games are made for certain people, and that's okay. The only games that try to be made for everyone are either slop, or dead.

People who don't care to improve probably shouldn't be running content in an MMO game, where their performance directly affects how much other people enjoy the game.

In a normal MMO, player-to-player friction is usually the filter that makes people realize either "that was fun! when's the next one?", or "wait a minute, I hate MMOs!".

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So you want us gone. Just freaking admit it and be done with it. And then report us for Obstruction of your game.