Ban Service Accounts with more than 1 FC house

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Originally Posted by neia

If it is your only FC house no I don't think your house should be taken or anything. Where singular service accounts have multiple FC houses, that is the issue.

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Literally every single more or less large venue has multiple houses on multiple servers. Some FCs have subdivisions on different worlds. There are also many people who just end up with FC and it's house due to other members quitting.

Impose additional restrictions and you'll just scare off legitimate players away from social activities. They already are extremely thinned out; you think a venue owner wants to constantly maintain some "legitimacy" requirement? No, they'll just quit it and proceed with their life, while their freed up plots will be taken by sublords who will find their way to bypass whichever requirements will be imposed. Require 4 players per fc, you think it's difficult to buy 3 base accounts and stuff a character from each account into each FC?

SE has resources. SE has money. SE puts new junk into mog station regularly. Why are you here in this thread asking for some half-measures that don't even make any sense? Why don't you ask for proper solution, instanced housing?

If they moved the FC workshop into the grand companies, all of these houses would be released instantly as they would no longer serve a purpose.

That is the only reason why these houses are occupied, they’re only used for gill farming.

This would be a fantastic “feature” to add to the game in 8.0.

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Originally Posted by Alicie

Literally every single more or less large venue has multiple houses on multiple servers. Some FCs have subdivisions on different worlds. There are also many people who just end up with FC and it's house due to other members quitting.

Impose additional restrictions and you'll just scare off legitimate players away from social activities. They already are extremely thinned out; you think a venue owner wants to constantly maintain some "legitimacy" requirement? No, they'll just quit it and proceed with their life, while their freed up plots will be taken by sublords who will find their way to bypass whichever requirements will be imposed. Require 4 players per fc, you think it's difficult to buy 3 base accounts and stuff a character from each account into each FC?

SE has resources. SE has money. SE puts new junk into mog station regularly. Why are you here in this thread asking for some half-measures that don't even make any sense? Why don't you ask for proper solution, instanced housing?

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I'm not here to fornicate with arachnids.

Reworking housing is a massive undertaking, I'm simply asking for SE to pull a few levers in the back-end. It's a lot less of an ask, and something that could actually realistically happen within a short timeframe. An entire rework of housing is not happening anytime soon.

If venue owners get "scared off" by not being able to hoard FC houses. I think that's absolutely fine. You can host venues from actual FC houses without a need to hoard multiple. Again it's quiet simple and your argument is borderline facetious.

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Originally Posted by neia

We actually agree on more than you’re willing to admit. Instanced housing, dynamic scaling decoupling subs, allgreat ideas. Where we disagree is that you believe existing accumulation should be untouchable forever because time was spent. I don’t. In a game meant to run another decade, freezing early imbalances permanently is far worse precedent than correcting them. Your entire argument can be boiled down to "Screw you, I got mine" and that's a toxic mindset. If you have one FC plot, that's enough.

If SE were to set a hard cap with a long grace period and require excess plots to be relinquished, that’s mitigation of a design failure, not devaluation of player time. FC plots don't exist for greedy players to buy up. Calling force relinquishment of excess plots a 'punishment' doesn't hold.

The claim that there was “over availability” and no real demand for FC housing just isn’t accurate anymore. They're mostly all eaten up by greedy players hoarding a limited resource.



Very well said. And thanks for chiming in as the perfect juxtaposition to the other kind of veteran player.

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I realise we agree on plenty, but taking things away from players is a horrific idea in a game from a genre based around long term commitment. What player wants to put years into a game that can at the drop of a hat take away what you worked for because they implemented it poorly, punishing the players for devs poor work. It's awful and a group of players having more houses than others isn't as big a deal as you make out, especially if they actually solve the underlying issues causing the frustration. So no it's not "I got mine" because I'm not against the idea of newer players having the same things as me. And if a person is really die hard about housing they still can do the same as me.

Changing rules and applying them retroactively is a fantastic way to shatter any trust your players have that long term effort will actually last and it's safe to invest your time into. Great way to kill your MMO. Why would you alienate players who've been subbed for years for no reason but newer players being spiteful and jealous of what the older players have? Newer players still have housing available to them, it's not like housing is suddenly deleted content if you're new. I could make an alt on yet another server if I'd the mind too and have another 2 plots in due course. If they end up adding more EU servers I will probably make one alt to grab a little beach side cottage in the mists.

I know there was an oversupply of houses, I was there for new servers being added and a chunk of players refused to move. Those that did got the house they wanted, I got a few dream plots and spent no small amount of time leveling alts, going thru MSQ and leveling the crafters. It took those wards literal years to fill up fully. And since then the player base has gotten smaller due to a lot of people being pretty unhappy with the state of the game. People who held onto houses for years have left. The only reason so many people managed to snag such a large amount of FC houses is because nobody at the time was taking them. They claimed those houses over a prolonged period and the current state of housing still has a decent amount available for people who are hunting, moreso for those willing to server hop.

SE's current solution is shoving more wards in but at the moment there is simply not enough players needing them, especially FC wards. That's not to say that some people are not struggling to find a home, but not enough for SE to justify more server cost. There is no housing crisis atm. Much as you'd hate to hear it. On one of my alts her little plot has 7 houses available on that ward alone, available to FC's and another 2 where her FC house is. That's in the lavender beds, the goblet always always has more plots up for grabs, ishgard is similar. You'll get your FC house in time, it's just not going to be as immediate as you'd like. No need to try and steal things away from other players when housing is there in adequate supply across the servers.

So I still think it's pretty scummy to be trying to take from others when housing availability is not actually in this dire state even with the sub farmers, there are plots just sitting there for multiple lottos in a row. Even a quick glance shows medium plot there for FC's with a whopping two bidders wow.

they need to retire the ward system its just bad and terrible, add in a fully instance house system that can act as shared space between a group of friends with any plot size of choice this will stop the bot farmers dead in their tracks an everyone will be satisfied or happy cause they can own and build something together or alone an share it with others. it WAY past time and long overdue.

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Originally Posted by ShadowyZero

they need to retire the ward system its just bad and terrible, add in a fully instance house system that can act as shared space between a group of friends with any plot size of choice this will stop the bot farmers dead in their tracks an everyone will be satisfied or happy cause they can own and build something together or alone an share it with others. it WAY past time and long overdue.

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I want to see FC's able to buy a ward for themselves and it's members can occupy the houses with one big guild house in the middle, that'd be cool. I don't hold out hope it will ever happen though.
Hell I wouldn't even be opposed to having a ward up bring an additional fee to the FC leader. I'd rather pay for a ward than an extra retainer..

The benefit of wards being that they are always up actually is great, you can pop round the place and check out people's homes and bump into people. But they are not as alive as they should be because, yes, a lot of plots are taken by people using them just for sub income. Removing that issue would bring some life back to them as well as adding more features to them. You can have organic meetings with people in the wards, instanced housing doesn't bring that kind of interaction. You have to be very deliberate in whose house you go to, you don't just bump into people.

I don't see them removing the wards (YoshiP has said he likes them), but they can add instanced housing on top. GW2 housing is solely instanced and it does not have the same social benefits as our ward one does. Needing to be online and potentially send invites to people is a big deterrent to people actually caring to decorate their homes and interact with housing as a whole when they know most people won't see it. A lot of people like to do ultimates and such to have the fancy weapon to show off, players place value in other people seeing their achievements and what they have done in the world. Wards are good for that, instanced housing isn't as great at it. So I would like to see both.

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Originally Posted by neia

--is just a personal attack rather than an argument.

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Seeing any submarine having FC or two, on different servers, as potential gil farms and dividing FCs into "legitimate!" and "bannable!" boxes smell lil bit like an attack, too. SEs rule for FCs+houses are pretty clear. 4 members at the moment of founding and bidding and rank 6. That's it.

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Originally Posted by neia

Listing your personal playstyle history doesn't address the core issue here-

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Of course it doesn't; that's just one anecdote about how someone might come to have more than 1 FC with a house. I thought you wanted to give your "FC an actual home", too, though no one but you and your FC cares about your temporary houselessness.

When the system was changed into lottery system, I can't remember where it was but I'm pretty sure YoshiP made comment about leaving the loophole (tho is it loophole if it's intended?), that even a player who already has FC with house can acquire another with-house FC's leadership role; if the FC system recognises the old leader as inactive within limits of the FC system rules, transferring the role to the first FC member to log in.

And yes, the FC leadership role transfer can be abused and it sucks, but even in the current state of the game I'm a fan of presumption of innocence -- rather than supporting this forum with it's ideas as judge, jury and executioner kinda package for this sorry matter.
I'm also all for better system, what I am not for is bans for people who have played it fair at the time we had different rules before this hypothetical better system, again.

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

but taking things away from players is a horrific idea in a game from a genre based around long term commitment. What player wants to put years into a game that can at the drop of a hat take away what you worked for because they implemented it poorly, punishing the players for devs poor work. It's awful and a group of players having more houses than others isn't as big a deal as you make out,

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Crafted items, currencies, relic grinds, and progression systems get invalidated or deleted outright. Whole gameplay loops (PvP modes, job mechanics) have been removed despite massive time investment. That is normal in live-service model.

Every single FC ward on Materia is full of greedy players like you who think it's acceptable to have multiple FC plots on their account, or literal gold farmers.

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

Changing rules and applying them retroactively is a fantastic way to shatter any trust your players have that long term effort will actually last and it's safe to invest your time into. Great way to kill your MMO. Why would you alienate players who've been subbed for years for no reason but newer players being spiteful and jealous of what the older players have?

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Treating early access as untouchable entitlement is far more corrosive to trust than correcting it.

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

Newer players still have housing available to them, it's not like housing is suddenly deleted content if you're new. I could make an alt on yet another server if I'd the mind too and have another 2 plots in due course. If they end up adding more EU servers I will probably make one alt to grab a little beach side cottage in the mists.

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Great. You live on a region with multiple datacenters that might have this luxury. Every single FC ward on Materia is eaten mostly by people from other datacenters, or a few whales who are legitimately from the region, who own more than one! That's the issue and it's greed no matter which way you try and paint it.

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

I know there was an oversupply of houses, I was there for new servers being added and a chunk of players refused to move. Those that did got the house they wanted, I got a few dream plots and spent no small amount of time leveling alts, going thru MSQ and leveling the crafters. It took those wards literal years to fill up fully. And since then the player base has gotten smaller due to a lot of people being pretty unhappy with the state of the game. People who held onto houses for years have left. The only reason so many people managed to snag such a large amount of FC houses is because nobody at the time was taking them. They claimed those houses over a prolonged period and the current state of housing still has a decent amount available for people who are hunting, moreso for those willing to server hop.

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Having more than one FC plot on your service account is just greedy given the current model, no matter which way you try and paint it.

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

SE's current solution is shoving more wards in but at the moment there is simply not enough players needing them, especially FC wards.

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These extra wards are not even available here.

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

There is no housing crisis atm.

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I challenge you to find this plentiful supply of FC plots you keep talking about, on Materia. It doesn't exist. What your saying is categorically false.

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

You'll get your FC house in time, it's just not going to be as immediate as you'd like. No need to try and steal things away from other players when housing is there in adequate supply across the servers.

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Again not even arguing, just resorting to personal attacks. There is a systemic issue with greedy players hoarding this scarce resource.

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

So I still think it's pretty scummy to be trying to take from others when housing availability is not actually in this dire state even with the sub farmers, there are plots just sitting there for multiple lottos in a row.

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More personal attacks. But I guess if you feel entitled to half of a DC's housing supply yourself, I can see why you'd come on the forums and attack players who would like a single home for themselves. This is bigger than just myself as this issue affects every single player.

Any real fix requires hard limits. Greedy players are the issue with housing.

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Originally Posted by Burmecia

And yes, the FC leadership role transfer can be abused and it sucks, but even in the current state of the game I'm a fan of presumption of innocence -- rather than voting this forum as judge, jury and executioner kinda package about this matter. I'm also all for better system, what I am not for is bans for people who have played it fair at the time we had different rules before better system

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Forced relinquishment of the excess plots with a full Gil refund would be the bare minimum. Calling it "playing it fair is also just facetious. Hoarding multiple houses is greed no matter which way you try paint it.

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Originally Posted by neia

I challenge you to find this plentiful supply of FC plots you keep talking about, on Materia. It doesn't exist. What your saying is categorically false.

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Sophia/free company; 1804 plots match your current filters.

"We're all gona make it brah."

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

If they end up adding more EU servers I will probably make one alt to grab a little beach side cottage in the mists.

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Welcome, welcome, and feel free to check the old servers too :)
Poor chaos has seen busier times...