Are we expecting TO MUCH from 8.0?

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

We lost 40% of our player base per LuckyBancho so if that shot across their bow does not get their attention, I don’t know what will.

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Right I do think the drop in playerbase will hopefully wake them up to do something... Though I honestly don't know if I have much faith in it working out or not currently. But I'd welcome anything at this point as stagnation is why we're in this mess to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Jendic

I beg to differ on that.

1.0=Bad ARR=Good HW=Great
SB=Bad ShB=Good EW=Great
DT=Bad 8.0=???

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Putting EW above ShB is crazy work

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

If they really want to turn this game around they need to start communicating with us like they did prior to the ARR relaunch instead of the finance bros that they and that most companies listen to almost exclusively these days. The lack of communication and the wall of silence holding just as strong as ever is telling me that things won't be as great or as well done as they are expecting it to be or as anyone is hoping it will be. And that is purely on SE's own shoulders.

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Okay, then let's play devil's advocate here. Outside of speaking to the fuzz(your stockholders and finance dept.), they've actively taken feedback from everything - and guess what? The narrative gets flipped on its head when they listen to players. They give them what they want, but then it's basically a "No, not like that!" situation. This causes confusion over on the dev's end on what players want, and then if the players don't know what they want, then Yoshida just goes about doing whatever.

Think about that for a minute. With all this backlash, they know for a fact that Dawntrail is by and far the worst expansion in the game. When this era passes, I'm hoping they actually take to heart what we're saying here since constructive feedback is the best you can give a developer - if they don't listen? The game suffers for it. The argument that devs don't listen is pretty false, given how much immediate course correction came out of Dawntrail, but it's because your influencers, your media, and feedback is so loud they can't ignore it. That's the kicker.

People asking for undoing glamour restrictions? That went on forever and became loud enough they finally did it. I'm literally looking forward to that, but in general it's important to understand both sides of the coin and see where the issue lies in how we got here, not just putting full blame on devs all the time when it comes to MMOs considering that they've had a decent track record up until 6.1 when everything started to roll downhill.

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Originally Posted by Jendic

I beg to differ on that.

1.0=Bad ARR=Good HW=Great
SB=Bad ShB=Good EW=Great
DT=Bad 8.0=???

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I beg to differ on this. You can deliver a standalone game to actually make it work if the writing is actually good. That's why Shadowbringers is considered one of the greats and actually helped lead to the peak we were getting at that time.

In this case? You're entitled to your opinion, but it doesn't mean it's all right.

1.0 everyone can agree was a disaster.

2.0 was decent, and was good for a while aside from the massive quest log you have to do just to reach Heavensward(which is literally people's roadblock majority of the time).

3.0 was good, though most people relate the expansion to Haurchefant because he's a goat in people's eyes. I kinda wish he had more screentime otherwise.

4.0 was actually not bad. Story-wise, it did feel like a mess because it's a war story, but it actually did feel alright imo. We got a bigger world expansion out of Gyr Abania and Doma, and the lore behind Doma was pretty amazing considering we stuck over there for more than half the entire expansion outside of the "I can fix her" allegations.

5.0 was actually the best story in the game in my opinion. It gets grim dark, and touches on some things that are particularly polarized in some regions at this time(Vauthry in particular being the baby he is was also amazing as a villain, but the tweeest). Heck, it even goes more into Ascians which people have been yearning and speculating for along with Zodiark and Hydaelyn.

6.0? I'd say it was a good expansion. The only issue I have is the whole Void Arc because up until 7.2, it was good. 7.3 onwards was...sloppy writing wise and had a major case of deus ex machina and writers speaking through Ysh'tola.

7.0 was a disaster because of this, as we got absolutely no build-up to the next expansion, which led to it being badly received - but aside from people blaming Wuk Lmao, the writing was bad because we were promised something, but never got it. No conflict between Scions outside of Thancred. Like, what the hell? We even had a bad first half because the pacing was so bad I could fall asleep during it.

I cannot state this any more than I have to: This game lives and dies by its narrative writing. That is completely what this is. Gameplay? That's subjective, since everyone has their own brand of gameplay they like in XIV. But what I'm purely talking about is just how 7.0 onwards in the narrative we did not get fed until 7.2 on top of the long, long production time they have. It's where I genuinely have to ask the devs: Do ya'll have enough content to sate people for that long? Because that's the exact argument that some influencers like Rinon have said. If you don't have enough content to last for 4 1/2 months, shorten the timeline and don't get lax.

Y'know the thing that gets to me is how people blame the lack of risk taking for why the game is losing subs when the risk-factor has been the same for the last 7 years, at least. Does it really take that long before people figure things out? Because that seems silly to me.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

Y'know the thing that gets to me is how people blame the lack of risk taking for why the game is losing subs when the risk-factor has been the same for the last 7 years, at least. Does it really take that long before people figure things out? Because that seems silly to me.

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i mean healer mains have been in denial for longer than 7 years; it kept getting worse and worse with the effort they put into healing jobs. So sadly, yes, it does to be exact it took the story going downhill for people to accept the parts of the game that have been trash and have been for a long time, plus the average person in ffxiv community is a white knight who won't accept anything negative towards the game

Nope. I expect what we're probably gonna get.

A story that is painfully safe, quests where you talk to someone who tells you to go talk to someone without any turbulence or shake-ups inbetween, the same overmilked companions we've had for over a decade, probably a new class with the same job philosophy as the other classes, limited voice acting in a game that prides itself on storytelling via cutscenes (Why only ESO bothers with including voice acting in every.single.quest despite being on life support will always be a mystery to me), linear dungeons where you can only go one direction and will be on autopilot until the last boss shows up.

Some homes are beyond saving, they have to be torn down and built anew. Until this game has its own Cataclysm or ARR 2, there is nothing more to expect.

I'm always happy to be proven wrong though :D

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Originally Posted by NecroprincessCleo

i mean healer mains have been in denial for longer than 7 years; it kept getting worse and worse with the effort they put into healing jobs. So sadly, yes, it does to be exact it took the story going downhill for people to accept the parts of the game that have been trash and have been for a long time, plus the average person in ffxiv community is a white knight who won't accept anything negative towards the game

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As a career WHM, Here's is my story for the last 7 years:

The phases of loss:
Denial: The initial shock and disbelief regarding the loss.
.....AST, cross class and class balance took all my identity.
Anger: Frustration and helplessness often directed towards others or oneself.
.....Why doesn't anybody want WHM for raiding anymore, I can heal just as good as anybody else!
Bargaining: Attempting to negotiate or make deals to reverse the loss.
.....Ok, you can keep some of the stuff you took, but at least make my job wanted by others.
Depression: Deep feelings of sadness and despair as the reality of the loss sets in.
.....I have been replaced by a Warrior tank; I am no longer needed in content except to make queue's pop.
Acceptance: Coming to terms with the loss and finding a way to move forward.
.....At least I can look good standing around in my Theophany robe dyed pastel pink and pure white... right?... right?... What do you mean WHM no longer is exclusive on this anymore? --> Denial...

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

had to snip

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I don't think communication only should go one way, though. SE is sadly notorious for holding stone cold silence to the playerbase. We don't actually know what they are listening to and if they are listening at al because it is just not communicated until after the fact.
On top of that we don't even get a big chunk of the communication that is actually pushed out translated to english for western audiences which has led to some chaos and confusion in the past and likely will in future to come. A solid back and forth path of information is necessary for a community driven game to thrive. That way we would also know ahead of time if they are planning a big change that would be disastrous and could tell them loudly that it would not be a good idea so they have time to course correct before the patch hits and everyone gets angry at them.

I think I am a bit spoiled in that regard from my years playing WoW where they have whole departments literally dedicated to speaking to their players, playing the game and keeping an ear to the ground to plan things people are just kind of raving about in general. They even have employees monitoring some of the bigger fan driven discord channels. There are so, so many things SE could be doing to make sure they actually understand their customers and cater to them. Instead they have been bull-headedly forcing their vision of what they think is best for us on us. Reminds me of the famous "You think you want this but you really don't." It's hubris and it is a problem that is becoming more and more apparent.

This game has been built on false promises for a while now, so I expect big talk and the same slopfest that we have been served for the past years. I remember them talking big about the graphical update, only for it to be mediocre at best, most of the previous zones, bosses, NPC have never been updated.... It has been more than a year since 7.0's release.
At least if they could be honest about what they're delivering instead of teasing it for years only to be the same trash or half-baked content.