Does FFXIV Hate Politics Now? [Spoilers for Dawntrail 7.1]

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Originally Posted by Hallarem

Don't forget Red dead redemption references because popular game
Don't forget Cyberpunk references because popular game
Don't forget the 7.1 dungeon resident evil reference, because popular game

We lost the Whalaqee - Ceruleum storyline to "Muricans love cowboys right? Lets have cowboys with american accents"

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Guy who's only ever seen Boss Baby, playing a videogame:
"Getting a lot of Boss Baby vibes from this."

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Originally Posted by Wasselin

One of the things that made A Realm Reborn so great was its rich political intrigue. Ul’dah’s Monetarists schemed against the Sultana, Limsa Lominsa’s pirates chafed under the Admiral’s rule, and Gridania was boiling over from tensions with the Duskwight Elezen and Ala Mhigan refugees. These conflicts made the world feel alive, layered, and grounded in real-world issues. Politics were central to the story, driving the narrative and building a complex world.

Fast forward to Dawntrail, and that political tension feels almost entirely absent. Take the Yok Huy, who gave up a vast empire that subjugated much of Tural, including the Pelupelu. While the story does mention that some people feel “uncomfortable” around them and there are a few Yok Huy who want to return to their status as conquerors, there’s little exploration of the lasting impact of their conquests. The Pelupelu, who were once enslaved by the Yok Huy, now seem to have completely forgotten or don’t care about their former subjugation.

Or consider Shaaloani, a region inspired by the American West. The discovery of ceruleum deposits has led to the construction of railroads and other industrial projects, which in our real history was a disaster for the native people. Yet, the local Hhetsarro people magically coexist with the industrialists drilling into their land. There’s no exploration of displacement, cultural erasure, or conflict over resources—instead, the two groups live side by side in harmony, a magical train horn solving all problems.

These are just a few examples of a trend in Dawntrail: political conflict is either absent or mentioned only as a token, with no real exploration of its consequences. Clearly the writers wanted a lighter tone after the heavy stakes of Endwalker, but it comes at the cost of the moral complexity and political realities that made the previous places feel alive.

I hope that future patches or expansions will bring political intrigue back. FFXIV’s world feels most alive when it grapples with the messy, conflicting interests of its inhabitants.

Am I off base? Do you miss the politics of earlier expansions?

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Yes. To both questions. Yes, they hate politics. Also, yes I miss the politics. Or rather, I don't think Daichi Hiroi is savvy enough to competently handle such gravitas. I was originally going to make it a one-word reply, but might as well just go all in.

It was literally stated in a recent interview that Dawntrail was aimed at a younger audience. Despite the fact that MMO audiences tend to skew much older, ESPECIALLY despite the fact that FFXIV requires so much damn reading. (The lack of voice acting in the MSQ also looks, as LuLu put it, fucking cheap, when even f2P games have full voice acting in every scene.)

Certain people whined about politics in FFXIV. The same kind of people that whined about politics in the Star Wars prequels. Disney removed the politics, even when it rendered the situation of the galaxy in The Force Awakens into nonsensical garbage, and rendered it simplistic and silly. FFXIV has done the very same thing. This game is for kids now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hallarem

Don't forget Red dead redemption references because popular game
Don't forget Cyberpunk references because popular game
Don't forget the 7.1 dungeon resident evil reference, because popular game

We lost the Whalaqee - Ceruleum storyline to "Muricans love cowboys right? Lets have cowboys with american accents"

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The massacre of the worldbuilding frankly has started under Ishikawa, but back then it was considered in poor taste to call the writing out because everyone was just beguiled by the touching, emotional moments.

Now that we have none of that it's become ever clearer how the world of FF14 has become completely nonsensical and self-contradictory.

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Originally Posted by Exmo

Lyse was like 5 years old when she fled Ala Mhigo, then lived for 20 years in Sharlayan and Eorzea. At the start of and throughout Ala Mhigo she's Ala Mhigan in word only. She's "European". Her role and characterisation are beat for beat a white savior narrative.

Even if you set aside the fact that half of StB takes place in the far east, where Lyse is once again coming in as an outsider, everyone knows that CBU3 historically uses tan skin colours as signifiers of racial politics while skirting the topic of race. Ala Mhigans, like Dhalmekians in FF16, are analoges of the Middle East without the devs actually committing to having POC prevalantly in their game as a collective people. They do this intentionally because they want to talk about topics related to racial politics in the real world, without actually discussing race. Whether they are wise to try it or whether they succeed, that's a topic for another day.

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Fact of the matter is I don't think anyone would be calling Lyse a white savior if her character was dark skinned. There is nothing in the character herself that makes her a white savior nor does her white skin ever play any role in the story. I guess someone could argue that she is then a "foreign" savior, but that's also bellied by the fact that she is literally Ala Mhigan by birth and was a child refugee. So just because she didn't grow up under imperial rule, her care for her homeland is de facto problematic or suspect?

Its not like the Ala Mhigans treated her like Paul Atriedes or something. Now that's a literal white savior, though I understand intentionally so.

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Originally Posted by Exmo

Lyse was like 5 years old when she fled Ala Mhigo, then lived for 20 years in Sharlayan and Eorzea. At the start of and throughout Ala Mhigo she's Ala Mhigan in word only. She's "European". Her role and characterisation are beat for beat a white savior narrative.

Even if you set aside the fact that half of StB takes place in the far east, where Lyse is once again coming in as an outsider, everyone knows that CBU3 historically uses tan skin colours as signifiers of racial politics while skirting the topic of race. Ala Mhigans, like Dhalmekians in FF16, are analoges of the Middle East without the devs actually committing to having POC prevalantly in their game as a collective people. They do this intentionally because they want to talk about topics related to racial politics in the real world, without actually discussing race. Whether they are wise to try it or whether they succeed, that's a topic for another day.

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Do you know if, in the non-English versions, Lyse's accent is distinct from the "true" Ala Mhigans, and if so whether it carries the same class signifiers as the English version?

Do anyone even call her savior? If anything, it feels like the character was forced into that role, and it's one of the writing choice that felt the most weird with me. She never gained the status she was given.

Someone once told me that the whole "family duty/inheriting something because of your family and not your abilities" was a trope heavily used in japanese fiction, which could in some way explain things, but Lyse never showed any leadership skills, and the whole Doma part that should have taught her that never really achieved to convey that she learned to be a leader there. I always felt it was one of the reason Lyse was disliked : the scenario wanted to push her in a position she never really earned.

So it feels really weird to me that people discuss about her being a white savoir, when she never saved anything. Someone just went "I knew your father, so you should lead the resistance" and everyone rolled with it.

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Originally Posted by CNitsah

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So it feels really weird to me that people discuss about her being a white savoir, when she never saved anything. Someone just went "I knew your father, so you should lead the resistance" and everyone rolled with it.

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I guess that would make her a savoir faire.

The whole story is riddled with ancestral privilege, with Lyse's elevation to leader being less credible than most.

The bastard son of a mad pope ends up leading the house of lords, even after political realignment.

Gridania? Only those with a rare mutation make top dog. Apparently because they hear voices in their head. That sounds like a scam.

Ul'Dah and Tural both monarchies.

Doma. Garlemald.

Oh well, I guess it's the nature of fantasy.

“Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony... You can't expect to wield supreme power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!”

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Do you know if, in the non-English versions, Lyse's accent is distinct from the "true" Ala Mhigans, and if so whether it carries the same class signifiers as the English version?

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I don't know about her accent in other languages, sorry.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

I guess that would make her a savoir faire.

The whole story is riddled with ancestral privilege, with Lyse's elevation to leader being less credible than most.

The bastard son of a mad pope ends up leading the house of lords, even after political realignment.

Gridania? Only those with a rare mutation make top dog. Apparently because they hear voices in their head. That sounds like a scam.

Ul'Dah and Tural both monarchies.

Doma. Garlemald.

Oh well, I guess it's the nature of fantasy.

“Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony... You can't expect to wield supreme power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!”

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i think Merlwyb is the only major exception. Otherwise, all other state leaders are rulers by virtue of their birthright. Even the Crystal Exarch is descended from ancient kings. When they revealed in DT that Wuk Lamat would have ruled her village had she remained there instead of being moved to Tural, my eyes rolled out of my skull.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Ul'Dah and Tural both monarchies.[/I]

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I would point out that based on every bit of story, Ul'Dah is really just a monarchy on paper... The Syndicate which is mostly made out of rich merchants is actually in charge, though Nanamo is a part of it and Raubahn used to be as well.

"White savior" is a term referring to American imperialism and the systemic erasure of indigenous culture, which had been deemed as savage and sinful by the American people. There is a faction in Final Fantasy XIV that engaged in this behavior all throughout the game's story—it's Garlemald. Hell, Gaius's signature scene is one long "Kill the Indian, Save the Man" speech.

Lyse is not a "white savior". She is white-skinned and heroic. That is not the same thing.