FF 14 has the worst dungeons

It 1000% does.

It stinks because no matter what you do, the players will streamline it, and SquareEnix has given up trying.

You can maintain the “side paths are useless because people will only go the optimal route” idea while still at least attempting to hide this design element in environmental storytelling and making what is there good

For the former something like shisui is actually a pretty good representation of “single path but it doesn’t feel like it” because a lot of almost immediate dead ends are hidden in the design of the palace. It feels like there COULD be more paths even if there isn’t. Compare this to say aetherfont that really makes you feel like you are on a guided tour

As for the latter interesting trash mechanics you have to interact with doesn’t clash with “people will optimise out the lesser options” because this games dungeons enforce trash encounters

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

Regardless, people will always streamline and find the easiest, fastest, and least friction path. This applies to every single game, even those that offer ample variation and complexity.

That's why every single game under the sun has a guide on how to achieve the best, the fastest X. (The best build, the fastest gold, the fastest levels, the best specs, the best gear.. etc)

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Of course people are going to optimize everything, there is fun in the process and seeing the results work out.

The problem is when the game gets designed in such a way that the optimized way is the baseline, it not only destroys it for the people who aren't trying to optimize but also for those that do.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

You can maintain the “side paths are useless because people will only go the optimal route” idea while still at least attempting to hide this design element in environmental storytelling and making what is there good

For the former something like shisui is actually a pretty good representation of “single path but it doesn’t feel like it” because a lot of almost immediate dead ends are hidden in the design of the palace. It feels like there COULD be more paths even if there isn’t. Compare this to say aetherfont that really makes you feel like you are on a guided tour

As for the latter interesting trash mechanics you have to interact with doesn’t clash with “people will optimise out the lesser options” because this games dungeons enforce trash encounters

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All the games that I played with the MMO tag had the exact same formula: trash -> boss-> trash-> boss. (dragon nest, guildwars 2, Blade and soul, TERA, SWTOR, just to name a few)

I am pretty much used to this, and I expect this format in MMOs. But then again, perhaps I don't understand the requests because I personally don't care about dungeons. I was never a casual in the strict sense of just doing the story and then coming back at the next patch cycle. I always raided, and I always did end game content. Dungeons were a means to an end. To help me gear and access the end content.

If I wanted narratives that I wanted to explore and which offered rich experiences, I always looked for games that were centered around that. Baldur's Gate 3 is the latest prime example of this.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

All the games that I played with the MMO tag had the exact same formula: trash -> boss-> trash-> boss. (dragon nest, guildwars 2, Blade and soul, TERA, SWTOR, just to name a few)

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Funny you mentioned GW2, because that game has dungeons with mechanics you can't just ignore and they all have different paths you can take. Granted, they've been abandoned by the dev team shortly after release, but they are the literal opposite of what you describe.
Unless you only did CoF back in the day when that was a decent way to farm money. But even then, there was an event you had to do to even get access to the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

All the games that I played with the MMO tag had the exact same formula: trash -> boss-> trash-> boss. (dragon nest, guildwars 2, Blade and soul, TERA, SWTOR, just to name a few)

I am pretty much used to this, and I expect this format in MMOs. But then again, perhaps I don't understand the requests because I personally don't care about dungeons. I was never a casual in the strict sense of just doing the story and then coming back at the next patch cycle. I always raided, and I always did end game content. Dungeons were a means to an end. To help me gear and access the end content.

If I wanted narratives that I wanted to explore and which offered rich experiences, I always looked for games that were centered around that. Baldur's Gate 3 is the latest prime example of this.

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I don’t get why you replied to me

I understand and accept that the nebulous “15 path dungeon with all being equally useful and leading to meaningful story divergence” is a fairytale. I’m saying that that mindset doesn’t preclude still

1) at least trying to pretend like the dungeon isn’t a curated hallway (zot and aetherfont looking at you two specifically)
2) making trash meaningful

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Originally Posted by RenkoBernkastel

Funny you mentioned GW2, because that game has dungeons with mechanics you can't just ignore and they all have different paths you can take. Granted, they've been abandoned by the dev team shortly after release, but they are the literal opposite of what you describe.
Unless you only did CoF back in the day when that was a decent way to farm money. But even then, there was an event you had to do to even get access to the dungeon.

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I just recently did a story dungeon in GW2 with their equivalent of trust, and it's exactly the same. The only major difference is that I never thought it possible that another game would make a worse version of Trust, and yet Gw2 managed to deliver on it. While some of the bosses had quite interesting mechanics (for the first time) everything else was a pretty awful experience..LOL. Still linear and essential a corridor but with absolutely dogshit AI for the Trust. Never again..

In my opinion the problem is that it is really too brainded and all the same, just with a different backdrop.

There is no feel of excitement when I hear about a new dungeon. Because I already know that it's some packs of trashmobs
from wall to wall and 3 bosses. Nothing else to do here.

Most of the time, there is nothing to really explore. I appreciate the newest dungeon because when I ran it first with trusts, I could explore a lot of siderooms.
Sadly there was nothing really to find there. x3

Of course people will streamline everything. But we also want to explore new exciting stuff, befooore we streamline it! ^w^

The whole PvE is garbage and has to be revamped from the ground up. Make it about skill and decision-making, not about learning a job's piano rotation executed ad nauseam and going from learning one script to the next.

Or maybe just scrap this console game as a whole and start fresh with a PC-only FF MMO so it can have real mechanics and brain input.

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Originally Posted by Kandraxx

Or maybe just scrap this console game as a whole and start fresh with a PC-only FF MMO so it can have real mechanics and brain input.

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What does console have anything to do with this??