Why pvp is succesful and pve is getting stale

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Originally Posted by Bonoki

This statement isn't true, but deep diving into it would slightly derail the topic.

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Enlighten me.

Although I like the pvp in this game, it's disingenuous to say it's successful given how the vast majority of players either don't care for it or outright dislike it

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Originally Posted by cashmoney109

Frontlines is basically the only reason I've stayed subbed to the game despite it being so hilariously neglected. Goes to show what having fun buttons to press can do for replayability.

I really do wonder though what the ratio of enjoyers is to people just gritting their teeth and bearing it for the rewards. Seems like it has to have some of the highest player engagement metrics in the game considering you can queue at nearly any time of the day and fill a 72 person match in a few minutes.

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Agreed, in terms of engagement metrics, FL must rank extremely highly. This despite the fact SE treats it like a red-headed step-child and the job "balance" is based on a completely different mode.

It seems to have survived the ill-conceived changes to hit detection which suggests it's also incredibly resilient.

PvP will always have some variety because it is humans (mostly at least) on both sides.

That doesn't mean PvP is always better, just that it will have variation since individual humans play differently than any designed system in PvE.

I still won't waste my time on it....

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Originally Posted by FlopsyPrince

PvP will always have some variety because it is humans (mostly at least) on both sides.

That doesn't mean PvP is always better, just that it will have variation since individual humans play differently than any designed system in PvE.

I still won't waste my time on it....

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Oh you can have some horrible matches in FL because you're relying on the competence of 23 other people (a theme emerges).

The key to me, and something the OP has emphasized, is that the one thing PvP will never be is a DDR exercise in putting your feet on the right spot. As such, it's invariably fresh, with different problems to solve in each match.

The OP actually tried to show that pvp (during Feast, but also a bit in old Secure in FL if you remember), was very scripted as well. Human variations? Sure, but scripted nonetheless compared to what we have now.

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Originally Posted by cashmoney109

Frontlines is basically the only reason I've stayed subbed to the game despite it being so hilariously neglected. Goes to show what having fun buttons to press can do for replayability.

I really do wonder though what the ratio of enjoyers is to people just gritting their teeth and bearing it for the rewards. Seems like it has to have some of the highest player engagement metrics in the game considering you can queue at nearly any time of the day and fill a 72 person match in a few minutes.

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This is likely because matchmaking for FL roulette is far simpler than that for alliance raid roulette, for example. When you queue for FL roulette you can only ever end up on one map (whatever happens to be the daily map) and your characters level and ilvl are ignored. So anyone in the queue can end up in the same instance together, making the pipeline from 'registering to duty' to 'duty commenced' is extremely streamlined.

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Originally Posted by cashmoney109

Frontlines is basically the only reason I've stayed subbed to the game despite it being so hilariously neglected. Goes to show what having fun buttons to press can do for replayability.

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Kinda the same, I don't even bother doing daily roulettes, I just run FL over and over on a capped class to get my weekly tomes and do some fishing or gardening with the rest of my time.

I don't agree that PvP is successful (it probably just has the same dedicated fan base as the other aspects of the game), but I agree with the thoughts that concern PvE.

I also tend to think that PvE won't be reworked, as it's an established concept that works for a large mass of players.
Subtle and deep reworks require both a rethink of PvE as a whole and how the jobs are played and felt, and in our reality this is practically impossible, especially in the game and net code.

We will just continue to get crutches that will not solve the problem on a global scale.

Although I relatively young player, according to the feedback of players, FF14 simply lost its individuality and faced the same problem as the "sols series".
Constantly increasing difficulty and new challenges for players forced the developers to make the game more and more "difficult", "balanced", but they still limited by the one tool. In the end, this led to the pursuit of difficulty and the lack of fun, for my personal opinion.

In past as a sprout, I close all ARR extremes in DF, and it was a really fun experience. But after several сlearing the EW "hardcore content" in PF, I have absolutely no desire to try again or ever return to it.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Oh you can have some horrible matches in FL because you're relying on the competence of 23 other people (a theme emerges).

The key to me, and something the OP has emphasized, is that the one thing PvP will never be is a DDR exercise in putting your feet on the right spot. As such, it's invariably fresh, with different problems to solve in each match.

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My few "fun" PvP times was when I ended up in a group that sucked as much as I do. I don't try it here because I don't want to gimp a team.

No game has figured out a good matching mechanism with reasonable times that allows equally skilled players.