Picto makes the game less fun

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

It would of had this effect for sure. I think DT is the first time in awhile when we had this many jobs getting miniature reworks straight after launch. EW had Kaiten and PLD rework, DT had BLM, MNK, VPR and SAM reworked and in SAMs and MNKs case they reworked it twice. If on top of all of that PCT got nerfed people would of called this out way earlier and heavier than they are now.

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It's interesting what passes for a "mini rework" in the relatively static context of FFXIV. I would call Astro losing their old cards a mini rework comparing other MMORPGs, and the only actual rework the game ever had was Summoner. As in, the class was essentialy hollowed out and some of the textual bits and visual f/x stitched together into something new.

But that only highlights how much too little they are willing to work on job designs, IMO. Stuff like this should be happening every .x-patch. Other games do that, they rip out entire mechanisms repeatedly, partiually because it's extremely difficult to design stuff in a vacuum. It's easier to change it, then change it back or do a third option when it doesn't work out!

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Originally Posted by Carighan

It's interesting what passes for a "mini rework" in the relatively static context of FFXIV. I would call Astro losing their old cards a mini rework comparing other MMORPGs, and the only actual rework the game ever had was Summoner. As in, the class was essentialy hollowed out and some of the textual bits and visual f/x stitched together into something new.

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What I personally constitute as a rework in XIV is removing a consistent feature from a job that's been around for a while. For example bard songs going from draining MP into CDs was a rework, AST cards no longer being RNG was a rework. When I say mini rework for SAM and MNK it was removing the timers on MNK and SAM's Tsubame-gaeshi changes. MNK/SAM in EW and DT play very similar so I wouldn't consider that a full rework. A rework would be like how monk from SHB to EW changed or if SAM had it's Iaijutsu system replaced with a different system.
I also disagree about SMN being the only job with a full rework, considering MCH in HW and SB play nothing like modern MCH. It's just the most egregious example because SMN went from high difficulty to no difficulty.

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Originally Posted by AddictedToWitches

Should BLM be doing more damage? Yes, I agree. But if I mained BLM I don't think I'd drop it just because another job currently out-damages it. If people are excluding you from parties because you play BLM instead of PCT then their party wasn't worth joining to begin with

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On a personal level, sure. If you're really passionate about a particular game aesthetic, then play the job that you want to play, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

On a game design level, no. You can excuse every failure in game balance with that reasoning.

PCT cannot be balanced relative to BLM because there are significant differences in their damage profiles. PCT has massive burst. BLM does not. If you design them to have equivalent DPS on a full uptime fight, PCT will pull well ahead on shorter fights as well as fights with intermissions.

I think motifs are the key to this if the devs want to resolve this within the expansion. It's very possible that they won't change anything because they want PCT to be dominant this expansion, but I want the devs to be upfront with the playerbase about their intentions so that players don't have false hopes.

The other issue is that PCT has flat out better utility, to the point where it creates an existential crisis for supposedly 'support-oriented' DPS jobs like the raise casters and physical ranged. There's no way that this job was released in such an unbalanced state by accident.

How does a single 10% shield create a crisis for support oriented DPS jobs. Raise and the phys ranged utility is far far better than tempra grassa. Hell tempra grassa is barely better than mantra or crest as it is

Being worried motifs push PCT’s damage too high in a downtime heavy fight is a valid concern, PCT’s utility dominating the support DPS option is not

PCT has a ton of utility on offer. It has a 30y raidwide heal, an additional raidwide mitigation that works on all damage types (unlike Magick Barrier, which is magic damage only and on a longer effective recast, and unlike both DRK and GNB's job specific raidwide mitigations), and has the most powerful mobility tool in the game. Smudge is not only a 15y dash on a 20s recast, but it also comes with 5 seconds of sprint (for a total of 25 seconds of sprint every minute). The devs clearly knew this was going to be a powerful effect, because when they released Aetherial Shift this expansion it got a 60s recast stuck to it even without incorporating any sprint buff. In contrast to BLM where your movements have to be planned out in advance through AM and BtL, Smudge lets you react on the fly. That makes it much more progression friendly.

That's a lot of utility to have on a 'damage caster'. What you're really losing out on is raise. But as a workaround, chances are you're just going to prog on a raise caster since they use the same gearset, and then swap off onto PCT once you need to clear the DPS check. It makes you question why other jobs are forced to trade off 'damage for utility' when PCT is generally just better at both.

phys ranged utility kek

I think you just answered your own problem there, PCT has utility (though it’s a bit hard to call a self movement tool utility. Expedient would be better classed as utility in terms of movement buffs) but it’s really only competing against BLM who has no utility at all (comparison to aetherial shift is near pointless as healers occupy a different niche and WHM is not wanting for movement options at all

PCT’s utility is relatively on par with the “utility” melee and far behind the 5 actual “utility” DPS

Is it a bit strong that the strongest rDPS class also has “some” utility. Arguably yes, but that’s more a problem with PCT’s damage, not its utility being overpowered. Plus I genuinely think it’s stupid that utility bringing classes are never really allowed to be top DPS, it should be totally fine for them to compete with top DPS

PCT’s balance problems more centre on it just being better than BLM in every category, but it isn’t out of line with the melees

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

How does a single 10% shield create a crisis for support oriented DPS jobs. Raise and the phys ranged utility is far far better than tempra grassa. Hell tempra grassa is barely better than mantra or crest as it is

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Melees
They have Feint and personals. Mantra is very, very good but useless on its own.
Crest on paper and bump RPR's healing by a lot but in practice it most often comes after a raidwide and a long time with no damage.
Regen is massively overrated as it often runs when no heal is needed. Arcane crest by itself is 30% of RPR's healing and 30 to 50% is often overheal.

Pictomancer,
Yet despite a Reaper having access to Bloodbath, Second Wind, Arcane Crest and Feint, Pictomancer is able to outheal magical fight with only a Tempera, addle and Star Prism.
Reducing damage is also much more valued than healing damage and shields have the neat effect to not be impacted by the mitigation calculation.

It steps on the SMN/RDM territory, while BLM only had a personal, SMN has personals+healing, RDM Magick Barrier.
But Picto swoops in with 2 raidwide mitigations, the best movement tool of the game while not being taxed like RDM.

More Raidwide mitigation is something rare only PLD and MCH got and made them shine despite those jobs being on the lower end damage wise.
But Pictomancer swoops in and evade the tax. In TOP, it's by default the best caster thanks to all the downtime that allows it to prepare the sketch, its mitigation and the fact ressing is pointless in 3/4 of the fight yet SMN/RDM pays the tax.

You can clearly understand why other casters (and phys ranged by extension) feels cheated, Pictomancer has too much strengths for no downsides, not only it compete for a caster spot but it can also compete for a melee spot, something rarely seen before.
You can either buff the other caster utility/damage or nerf Pictomancer utility/damage.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Melees
They have Feint and personals. Mantra is very, very good but useless on its own.
Crest on paper and bump RPR's healing by a lot but in practice it most often comes after a raidwide and a long time with no damage.
Regen is massively overrated as it often runs when no heal is needed. Arcane crest by itself is 30% of RPR's healing and 30 to 50% is often overheal.

Pictomancer,
Yet despite a Reaper having access to Bloodbath, Second Wind, Arcane Crest and Feint, Pictomancer is able to outheal magical fight with only a Tempera, addle and Star Prism.
Reducing damage is also much more valued than healing damage and shields have the neat effect to not be impacted by the mitigation calculation.

It steps on the SMN/RDM territory, while BLM only had a personal, SMN has personals+healing, RDM Magick Barrier.
But Picto swoops in with 2 raidwide mitigations, the best movement tool of the game while not being taxed like RDM.

More Raidwide mitigation is something rare only PLD and MCH got and made them shine despite those jobs being on the lower end damage wise.
But Pictomancer swoops in and evade the tax. In TOP, it's by default the best caster thanks to all the downtime that allows it to prepare the sketch, its mitigation and the fact ressing is pointless in 3/4 of the fight yet SMN/RDM pays the tax.

You can clearly understand why other casters (and phys ranged by extension) feels cheated, Pictomancer has too much strengths for no downsides.
You can either buff the other caster utility/damage or nerf Pictomancer utility/damage.

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You can’t just ignore that RDM and SMN both have raise, that is utility that far exceeds any other DPS by a wide wide margin. Phys ranged mitigation is stronger by 5% and they all also have a a secondary tool (and dancer has a third)

You also pointed out that PCT outheals melee in a magic heavy fight………because melee outheal it in a physical heavy fight. That’s not imbalance, that’s having different strengths and weaknesses

Downtime strengths is not utility and I fully agree PCT is concerningly strong in that category.

PCT needs to be nerfed somewhere (wow shocker I called for nerfs for a job I like, maybe you should try that sometime) but lyths comment that it’s destroying objectively superior utility from the support jobs is just excessive and pointless. Star prisms heal can go, that’s fine, I’ve already suggested ways to nerf PCT’s burst without flat nerfs to its potency but its utility is not overpowered

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

You can’t just ignore that RDM and SMN both have raise, that is utility that far exceeds any other DPS by a wide wide margin. Phys ranged mitigation is stronger by 5% and they all also have a a secondary tool (and dancer has a third)

You also pointed out that PCT outheals melee in a magic heavy fight………because melee outheal it in a physical heavy fight. That’s not imbalance, that’s having different strengths and weaknesses

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And I've, along others, pointed out why Res is overrated. It's only purpose is to recover catastrophic situation or to cheese TOP with no healers. It's cool but niche and undeserving of a tax.
I mentionned that PCT outheals melees in a magic fight, that's true, but how does it perform in physical encounter? Well would you look at that, It's competing with melees.

I'm not for nerfs, even on the utility side I don't think it's worth nerfing a job and won't make it funnier to the other jobs. Star Prism is similar to RPR or SMN, strong heals but very limited and unflexible.
Thought, Pictomancer needs a nerf on its damage, as CBU3 mentionned they intended for the job to be a "low melee" but it's currently dominating all DPS. Even by SQEX's standards it's heavily unbalanced.

You can also keep personal attacks to yourself, they're pointless other than being petty.
I won't be dealing with your fallacies.