The Actual Problem With Dawntrail

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Originally Posted by lolnotacat

Which is so damn annoying. They could've given the opportunity for us, and other characters to breathe. Alisae could've had a good moment with the paralyzed kid suffering from an aether imbalance. That's literally her thing. We spent multiple patches with her working on fixing that. Not only that, it shows that the world is living and breathing. Even if Alisae said something like "Sorry this is similar, but a Porxie can't fix it because stupid made up reason." that would've been better than how it's currently handled. And a character aside from Wuk could actually have had an interaction. It's just a shame how many missed opportunities there were with Dawntrail.

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I was sitting there the whole time like "is anyone gonna mention Porxies...? No....? Really????"

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Originally Posted by StormChase

I'm guessing they did what they did with Shaaloani because they realized there wasn't much break time, so they wanted to give the player a breather before going right into the Alexandria stuff. Also to set up the whole deal with Erenville and his mom.

The main reason I think it's an issue with the expansion's length is because some story beats feel like they happened too soon and some feel like they happened too late. The point where Wuk Lamat admits she has a problem is at level 91. We don't get to see Alexandria and be actually introduced to Sphene until level 97, and we don't get much time with her before it's revealed she's a villain. Maybe if they cut out the Shaaloani part that could've helped, but I'm not sure if even that would be enough with 100 quests.

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Honestly I liked the Shaaloani stuff so I’d want it to stay even though a lot of people don’t like it cuz it feels like filler. But it’s the only part that felt like how most of the expansion should have been vs a cliff note in the grand scheme of things in addition to another Wuk Lamat vehicle a la Namikka’s bracelet.

I think we might be having a similar-ish conclusion but have different solutions. You think making the story longer would help with giving the story more time to flesh out, whereas Im more of splitting part 1 into the main story of the expansion and making that longer/filling our 30+ hours with that. Then having the part 2 stuff sprinkled in as breadcrumbs throughout part 1, then the last 2 zones getting more depth in multiple parts via MSQ patches.

Just slapping more hours onto what we got wouldn’t help because the writing was not great, so more hours of the same wouldn’t help. But decoupling the stories and then fleshing them out might work better and give more time for it (and players) to breathe.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

It's not so much the character as the Childish writing. If I were a tween then this would likely be fun. Trouble is, I don't think most players of the game are children any more.

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I dont think even tween me could tolerate the story. Now me as a small child (like 5 or 6) would eat this up and I was really into lions and cats at that time so Wuk Lamat would have been a slam dunk.

With that said even children deserve better writing, and there is a lot of children’s media written better about topics of peace and friendship and etc that don’t treat the kids like they have 1 brain cell.

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Originally Posted by Papayatar

I dont think even tween me could tolerate the story. Now me as a small child (like 5 or 6) would eat this up and I was really into lions and cats at that time so Wuk Lamat would have been a slam dunk.

With that said even children deserve better writing, and there is a lot of children’s media written better about topics of peace and friendship and etc that don’t treat the kids like they have 1 brain cell.

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Most of us were reading the Lord of the Rings when we were 11-12, there's this weird assumption by game designers that young kids are drooling half-wits, 11 year old me would have been insulted by this xpac.

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Originally Posted by Zaniel

Most of us were reading the Lord of the Rings when we were 11-12, there's this weird assumption by game designers that young kids are drooling half-wits, 11 year old me would have been insulted by this xpac.

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Only certain designers and writers. XIV didn't have the infantilization problem in the previous expansions -- except maybe a little in Stormblood. But something was very off with Dawntrail. I wanna say it was all Hiroi's doing, but I don't think that's the case. His previous work in game wasn't stellar, but it was passable. I'm wondering how much the "consultants" which were hired by square meddled with the story and turned it into Final Fantasy 4kids.

I remember reading the Hobbit around 9-10 years old. The level of writing in DT was insufferable. I really question the mental capabilities of people who thought this story was 'fine' or good or even great.

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Originally Posted by Coratanni

I really question the mental capabilities of people who thought this story was 'fine' or good or even great.

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Some people are coprophiliacs. There's no accounting for taste (sometimes literally). I will say though, the vast majority of the time when someone says they like the game, they don't say why outside of "iLieKwUk" or "iTsFuN".

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Originally Posted by Zaniel

Most of us were reading the Lord of the Rings when we were 11-12, there's this weird assumption by game designers that young kids are drooling half-wits, 11 year old me would have been insulted by this xpac.

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Now I’m kinda curious what the average age for FFXIV players are, cuz I was one of those Harry Potter and Anne Rice novels kids at that age lol

LOTR to tween me was like HW to adult me, long, boring and wordy. Though admittedly the latter half of HW I properly enjoyed.

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Originally Posted by lolnotacat

Only certain designers and writers. XIV didn't have the infantilization problem in the previous expansions -- except maybe a little in Stormblood. But something was very off with Dawntrail. I wanna say it was all Hiroi's doing, but I don't think that's the case. His previous work in game wasn't stellar, but it was passable. I'm wondering how much the "consultants" which were hired by square meddled with the story and turned it into Final Fantasy 4kids.

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It’d be nice to see who was in charge of writing which parts. Because the side quests and Arcadion aren’t bogged down by 4kids FFXIV. And a decent amount explore the same themes of the MSQ and treat us like intelligent beings and offer some nuggets of info that slightly helps with some unanswered questions and what have you.

I don’t know about these consultants, I mean I see people on he forums talk about it, but even if they hired a consultant, those who approved the final version are just as much of not at more at fault. Consultants should assist but not change so much you get a worse product. And if the FFXIV let the consultants run roughshod over them or just yes man’d their suggestions then we’ve got a writing and a leadership issue.

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Originally Posted by CamuiKushi

I was sitting there the whole time like "is anyone gonna mention Porxies...? No....? Really????"

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Mention access to skills and experience that would show we and our allies are an unknown variable in Sphene’s programming presenting an even .0001% chance that a new plan is possible? No, not enough cutscenes and dialogue to have room for exploring that.

I always viewed Wuk Lemat as sort of a Protégé through the whole thing, same thing I feel toward Alisae. I actually enjoyed the first "real fight" she had against Bakool Ja Ja. "Don't worry, the big scary adventurer will sit out." I wanted to see myself calmly walk over to a tree stump, sit down, and just smirk as Wuk Lemat beat the piss outta Bakool Ja Ja. Though in the fight with Sphene, that took that feeling away from me.

I'm all for "student surprasses the master" troupes, however Wuk Lemat busting in outta left fucking field and just... glory hogging, that pissed me off. I did 90% of the work, and she just bust in, does a little bit, then takes center stage like she did it all. Meanwhile I stand in the background like some spectator. It would be different if she actually did most the of the work and I just helped or something, but hell no. They went full "Mary Sue must have center stage!" out of nowhere.