Ninja, do we need it?

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

Ninja is not a tank. I do not want them to tank, they should be like their classical FF interpretations. Not the player bastardization that happened in XI.

Thieves with Black Magic that throw stuff at people.

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Agreed. In all aspects, there is no real logic behind a ninja tank. In XI i couldn't stop scratching my head over that one.

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Originally Posted by Visch

Ok? Why don't you go get hired as a dev then because you obviously know what should be done better than anyone else huh?

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you don't need to be a dev to have an opinion :P

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Originally Posted by Visch

So you demand they wear silly green outfits as well?

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you're kinda close-minded and rash

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Originally Posted by Overkill9000

Agreed. In all aspects, there is no real logic behind a ninja tank. In XI i couldn't stop scratching my head over that one.

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What?

What makes it ok that PUG is a tank in XIV? Most people wouldn't have considered MNK a "tank" in XI.

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Originally Posted by Overkill9000

you don't need to be a dev to have an opinion :P

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You can't support a fact with an opinion.

Ninja is one of the most unique class, they are unlike warrior, unlike thief, unlike assassin but they're ninja!. why you need this unique stuff get waste by making it become just another tanker? because you're a hardcore tanker? (judge from your signature) so you need another class to play as a tanker?

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Originally Posted by Visch

What?

What makes it ok that PUG is a tank in XIV? Most people wouldn't have considered MNK a "tank" in XI.



You can't support a fact with an opinion.

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Uh, Monks make one of the greatest low to mid level tanks in XI and were better at it then Warriors in most cases. But like Ninja they get limited in how much defensive gear they have access too so they instead are relegated to DD onry.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

Ninja is one of the most unique class, they are unlike warrior, unlike thief, unlike assassin but they're ninja!. why you need this unique stuff get waste by making it become just another tanker? because you're a hardcore tanker? (judge from your signature) so you need another class to play as a tanker?

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NIN was my 1st 75 in XI and I was honestly pretty upset when I found out that it was "supposed" to tank.

But, NIN was never "just a tanker" in XI. It was one of the most versatile jobs along with BLU and RDM. It could debuff, magic DD, ranged DD, melee DD, and tank. It had tons of equipment options to support any of these. Being a tank was just what the community found it to most useful as.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

Uh, Monks make one of the greatest low to mid level tanks in XI and were better at it then Warriors in most cases. But like Ninja they get limited in how much defensive gear they have access too so they instead are relegated to DD onry.

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Defensive gear? Mid level? I'm talking about tanking here, not an exp party in crawler's nest.

Regardless of how its implimented if Ninja CAN tank, it will BECOME a tank. Theres no way around if. SE need to make it unique enough to make people realise it is better at something else, but if it can tank people will use it as a tank.

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Originally Posted by viion

Regardless of how its implimented if Ninja CAN tank, it will BECOME a tank. Theres no way around if. SE need to make it unique enough to make people realise it is better at something else, but if it can tank people will use it as a tank.

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What makes you think people would use it as a tank over a GLA or PUG if it was better at DDing? Just because it was in XI? Why would you want to use something worse than something else if you had the choice?

Ninjas were made famous by Japanese media, from ancient to modern pop culture. Ninjas have been in all kinds of games using all kinds of weapons and most of the time being one-man armies that fight everything head on.

So tell me, why is a Ninja using shadow images to entrap his foes in a deadly cage of illusions to protect his comrades "un-ninjalike"?
I think we need to get out of a western Dungeons & Dragons mindset and realize that Final Fantasy is a Japanese game, their image of the ninja is a lot more flexible.


Look at the FFXI ninja's two hour ability, exploding. That's a way weirder ability to have than shadow images, but still draws on Japanese ninja imagery.
What FFXI Ninja emphasized though was 'duty' and 'sacrifice'. The storyline of the Ninja quest such a tale. The Ninja's 2 hour is one where he sacrifices his own life for the good of the party. Protecting information, protecting one's loyalty, protecting one's comrades, the FFXI ninja is a protector who gives his life for duty. If you want a backstabbing coward, play a thief.


I'd rather have FFXIV stray away from strict party roles though. Final Fantasy games have never been about that. Playing through FF1 to X, characters had relative strengths and weaknesses, yes, but it wasn't so cripplingly specialized as XI was, it's a western RPG mechanic that is uneeded in Final Fantasy.

That's XI's problem, I hope they can get rid of it as XIV is further developed.
The ideal for me is something Monster Hunter or Phantasy Star like, you can form a party of any combination and everyone can function fine.

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I do not want them to tank, they should be like their classical FF interpretations.

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Edge can be built up to tank in the latest FF4, but that game doesn't really use party roles as strongly as western MMOs have popularized them
Shadow from FF6 can shadow tank VERY WELL, he is pretty much untouchable. This is doable in the SNES game
in FF13, though not a ninja, Lightning turns into an evasion tank in her strongest builds.

Again, I see the problem isn't "omg ninja is tanking" but FFXI's PUNISHING you for doing anything other than strictly fulfilling one role in a set party.

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Originally Posted by Visch

What makes you think people would use it as a tank over a GLA or PUG if it was better at DDing? Just because it was in XI? Why would you want to use something worse than something else if you had the choice?

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Dude lol reread what I said, I will put it out for you since im nice "SE need to make it unique enough to make people realise [SIZE="5"]it is better at something else[/SIZE]"

Did ya get it now? :P

So: if its rubbish at everything but Tanking and just as good at tanking as other classes, IT WILL BE A TANK. The PLAYERS define the class, not SE, SE Hope you use it a specific way but ultimately it comes down to the PLAYERS. If the players see ninja as a good Tank, it will be a tank. Thats how it evolved in XI. It wasnt a good DD and tools sucked ass. But if they make it good at other things non tank related then people will use it as the best it can be.