[6.0 - 6.4 Spoilers] An interesting video detailing Venat's polarizing reception

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

I think an important part to remember is that the game keeps Venat and Emet's crimes at a distance. Venat did her thing twelve thousand years ago, and nobody who meets Emet is really personally victimized by anything he did. This is very much intentional, because it puts the question forward without providing an answer or letting it derail the story. With Venat, part of that is absolutely that nobody who learns about this is impartial, and nobody who was hurt by it is alive anymore;

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This part is kind of incorrect. Taking Endwalker into current account, when Hydaelyn is explaining her plan and we found out her plan etc and how her backup plan was to sacrifice the shards…that very much affects our allies. Yshtola, who has her love Runar on the First and Thancred who had Ryne on the first, effectively his daughter figure. Yet even despite this none of them speak up or even question her on it or that their loved ones will be killed.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

This part is kind of incorrect. Taking Endwalker into current account, when Hydaelyn is explaining her plan and we found out her plan etc and how her backup plan was to sacrifice the shards…that very much affects our allies. Yshtola, who has her love Runar on the First and Thancred who had Ryne on the first, effectively his daughter figure. Yet even despite this none of them speak up or even question her on it or that their loved ones will be killed.

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Maybe because it doesn't matter if the escape plan, which the way I see it was a test, was going to sacrifice the remaining shards. The source getting wiped out was the equivalent of knocking out a load bearing beam in a wall. Knocking it out is going to cause the wall and maybe the whole building collapse. Your average person if given a safe or safer option vs a risky option will choose the safe option as part of their flight or fight response. You only give people one option even if said option is seen as a safe option more people will have a tendency to balk at it. It's why in the 8UC a lot of people turn down the original turn back the clock plan, but choose to get behind the save the WoL plan.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Maybe because it doesn't matter if the escape plan, which the way I see it was a test, was going to sacrifice the remaining shards. The source getting wiped out was the equivalent of knocking out a load bearing beam in a wall. Knocking it out is going to cause the wall and maybe the whole building collapse. Your average person if given a safe or safer option vs a risky option will choose the safe option as part of their flight or fight response. You only give people one option even if said option is seen as a safe option more people will have a tendency to balk at it. It's why in the 8UC a lot of people turn down the original turn back the clock plan, but choose to get behind the save the WoL plan.

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Okay right but….that doesn’t at all really dispute the fact that they express zero shock or horror at all at this revelation whatsoever. My point moreso is that they made the scions such cardboard cutouts in that entire scene purely to prop her up and leave her unquestioned. Compare it again, to when they question Emet. It’s night and day and in both situations people they loved were at the risk of dying.

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Originally Posted by Alleluia

And some people don't know how to tell when the horse is dead.

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Then why do you and your ilk still comment on threads about Ancient/Zodiark?

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Originally Posted by Gaddes

Y'know, you bring up an interesting point that I never really thought about before. Venat sundered the world into shards to keep ancients from just sacrificing themselves over and over again summoning Zodiark, but... to what end?

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First, this notion of "they're going to endlessly sacrifice themselves" is purely a slippery slope by people still stuck at ARR mentality where "primal = continuous sacrifice". What is the 3rd sacrifice purpose? To get back the souls inside Zodiark. After they achieve that and rebuild the world..... what the supposed next sacrifices are even gonna be about?

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Originally Posted by Gaddes

The end result from the sundering is that, yes, life survives... but as sundered beings, those new lives are new entities from the ancients they came from. So basically, if we consider those original lives "lost" to split into new ones with new personalities and new bodies, then the whole thing was a failure because everyone died anyway to make that new life.

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The game said that she did it for the future, because she's so traumatized by (2 lines report of) the Nibirun's fate. Fearing that's how the Ancients will ended up, she sunder the world to prevent it.

But if we think about it further, by preventing Nibirun dead end (she's wrong), she also opens the possibility for, at the very least, Dead End 1 and 2 (grebuloff and global citizen).

The sundering was a stupid, knee-jerk reaction to Hermes temper tantrum.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Okay right but….that doesn’t at all really dispute the fact that they express zero shock or horror at all at this revelation whatsoever. My point moreso is that they made the scions such cardboard cutouts in that entire scene purely to prop her up and leave her unquestioned. Compare it again, to when they question Emet. It’s night and day and in both situations people they loved were at the risk of dying.

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When were they supposed to question her? When they learned about the plan the ones that were there pretty much went "Oh heck no.". When those that weren't on the moon learned of the plan agreed with the situation. It wasn't like we had been to the Atiascope yet. It's kinda hard to bring up grievances when you can't directly bring them up to the person you'd bring them to. Hydelean knows that she can't tell the Loporrits that the task she gave them is just a test, mostly due to how she made them. When they finally meet Hydelean the track down the Meteia and whack some sense into them plan is already in action. To show major dissatisfaction with the escape plan then wouldn't make much sense.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

When were they supposed to question her? When they learned about the plan the ones that were there pretty much went "Oh heck no.". When those that weren't on the moon learned of the plan agreed with the situation. It wasn't like we had been to the Atiascope yet. It's kinda hard to bring up grievances when you can't directly bring them up to the person you'd bring them to. Hydelean knows that she can't tell the Loporrits that the task she gave them is just a test, mostly due to how she made them.

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I’m talking about when they confront her at the Altiascope. None of them question her whatsoever. That’s when they could have brought up grievances and called out her plan.

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Originally Posted by Kozh

First, this notion of "they're going to endlessly sacrifice themselves" is purely a slippery slope by people still stuck at ARR mentality where "primal = continuous sacrifice". What is the 3rd sacrifice purpose? To get back the souls inside Zodiark. After they achieve that and rebuild the world..... what the supposed next sacrifices are even gonna be about?

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We're not caught up on the ARR definition. Like last time it's the whole belief about how souls are ment to be able to return to the Aetherial Sea is a fundamental part of their society. If we are to assume that is still the case post 2nd sacrifice then they shouldn't be ok with replacing the souls inside Zodiark with more souls. As we know no matter what shape the new life took that it had souls in it. The not souls of lost friends and love ones should have mattered just as much to them as those that were of friends and love ones. Thus the idea of needing to constantly swap out souls and even more tempering of the convocation.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I’m talking about when they confront her at the Altiascope. None of them question her whatsoever. That’s when they could have brought up grievances and called out her plan.

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Why would they bring that up then? It would be like filing a complaint about a poorly thought out clean up of an oil spill plan that hasn't been put into action when you're already enacting a better solution.

Really, having any critical reflection on her actions akin to what was given to Emet-Selch and ELidibus would've made me feel a little better, but I've lost all hope of that happening even as Myths seems to primed to grapple more deeply with the consequences of the Sundering and the purpose the Twelve served in its immediate aftermath.