The Venat Cutscene

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Time loops and paradoxes are not something that requires active energy to maintain in this setting (or in fact most settings, I think only Doctor Who does that, even then only sometimes); there was absolutely no mention of that, and indeed if that were true, then the actual end-of-story solution of Alexander locking itself in a time bubble would've made the problem WORSE, not BETTER.

But again: Necrotica is not raising these in good faith. I didn't bring these up because I don't think they're actually interested in learning or in having a dialog, they're just interested in keeping up an argument for the sake of annoying us. Everything I've said is very easily findable and answerable, but they probably know that, and are just grinding down our patience with ridiculous claims.

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You just can't quit me can you?

And Alexander's time bubble was absolutely a huge portion of it's aether drain. Primal sitting and doing nothing does not burn nearly as much aether as one repeatedly resetting a time loop in a controlled area. Both Elidibus and Graha explained the TREMENDOUS amounts of aether needed for time travel. And Alexander had that set to repeat. Yes, Alexander burned a crap ton of aether to move around. He was a 50's car. But that is nothing compared to what he would be draining constantly going back in time.

Re: Alexander-

My understanding of the story was that Alexander was designed to judge to do X Y or Z, but ultimately decided not doing ANYTHING was the best answer, as if it did anything it would destroy more than it could save. Not that it was locked in an infinite time bubble, just that it shut itself down because it simply being active would drain aether to an extreme amount.

You know, War Games reference ("The only winning move is not to play.")

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

The Burn wasn't even a product of primal summonings, it was just more Allagan tech shenanigans that gave Solus/Emet-Selch a convenient excuse to start their nation's anti-eikon campaign.

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Especially since Solus is Emet-Selch...you could be 100% correct. Propaganda to cause a calamity.

There are things pointing at it possibly being primal-related, Alyz Lla related, or even the weird Allagan artifact in Azem Steppe related. I don't have it all in front of me now, but "Emet Shenanigans" is an easy option and very likely true.

I don't see any reason to think that Alexander required energy input to maintain the time loop.

It requires energy to travel through time, but once it has moved – and more relevantly has deposited people or objects away from their original time-location – then the normal rules of time and space apply to them and Alexander does not need to continually manipulate "the time loop" as some kind of abstract thing that constantly exists.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

*Gestures wildly at the place known as “The Burn”.

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The thing with the Burn is that it isn't the result of a primal summoning, but it is the result of depriving the land of aether. So if primals are not having that kind of effect on their locations then they are presumably not draining aether from the locations.

However, that is not necessarily the same thing as them not draining the land's aether in the long term. It is possible that they need regular offerings of crystals so they don't run out of power and have to start draining the land directly to maintain their existence.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The thing with the Burn is that it isn't the result of a primal summoning, but it is the result of depriving the land of aether. So if primals are not having that kind of effect on their locations then they are presumably not draining aether from the locations.

However, that is not necessarily the same thing as them not draining the land's aether in the long term. It is possible that they need regular offerings of crystals so they don't run out of power and have to start draining the land directly to maintain their existence.

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Correct. We see prayers and something else other than crystals used as an energy source in at least three places. One being Dalamud where it collected solar energy from the sun, sending any excess off towards the Crystal Tower. The rest along with prayer of Bahamut's thralls kept him fed. We see two grim versions of this in the game. One is the forceful summoning of Titan and Ifrit where the prayers of their followers are used along with their own aether to manifest them. Titan again gets summoned using the grief stricken wish of Ga Bu for his parents who's souls I want to say acted as the fuel as the summoning. Even the Waring Triad had faults put into their containment to allow them to gain some form of ambient aether while their thralls were held in stasis. At least I want to say it was stasis unless Sophia's just didn't care that Allag wasn't a thing anymore.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The thing with the Burn is that it isn't the result of a primal summoning, but it is the result of depriving the land of aether. So if primals are not having that kind of effect on their locations then they are presumably not draining aether from the locations.

However, that is not necessarily the same thing as them not draining the land's aether in the long term. It is possible that they need regular offerings of crystals so they don't run out of power and have to start draining the land directly to maintain their existence.

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Makes sense to me- I wonder if the Allagans the thing going on in Azem Steppe would, over time, cause it to also be drained like the Burn

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Originally Posted by kaynide

Makes sense to me- I wonder if the Allagans the thing going on in Azem Steppe would, over time, cause it to also be drained like the Burn

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The Allagan device on the steppe seems to be blocking the flow of aether rather than outright draining it from the surrounding – otherwise you would expect it to be in the centre of the desolation, not away from it.

That’s what I thought too; that it was/is more like…localized siphoning(?) and possibly storing the energy a la crystal tower… is it for sure not moving the energy somewhere else?

I had always thought it might a been related to Alys Lla.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

I had always thought it might a been related to Alys Lla.

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My understanding from memory is that the chunks of floating rock for Azys Lla were taken from what is now the Burn, and the aether-blocking may have been something to assist in cutting them loose?

There are also the giant tunnel-boring beetles/worms which first got alluded to by the Uyagir cave tribe and on the world map, which ultimately got taken literally when the devs made the Burn dungeon, but I wonder if whoever first wrote that idea was thinking of how a primitive tribe might interpret Allagan machinery.

(Or I guess you could split the difference and figure "bio-engineered Allagan tunneling worms"...)

Yeah, it's my understanding that the Burn was basically the launch site for Azys Lla, which is why it's like that. The actual landmass chunks were confirmed to be from all over--at least one part is from Meracydia according to the sightseeing log. I'd have to review why exactly I think the Burn was the launch site, though, I don't recall the exact evidence and the Encyclopedia Eorzea 2 doesn't get far enough into 4.x to hit the Burn.

It wasn't caused by primals, but it is exactly what the end state of even a passive primal like Ramuh would be if left alone. The Flood of Light had essentially the same effect on the majority of the First; three different routes to the same disastrous end.