There is no reward for playing well.

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Originally Posted by KenaiChoppa

You guys realize PvP is a TEAM based game, right? ofc you are gonna lose if your team does poorly, cant win a 1v5 or a frontline when you team just spread out in the map and ignore the objectives. It is like basic gaming.

What i do think they should add is allowing players to queue with friends, that way you can avoid players that doesnt have a clue/doesnt care about the game.

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No, seriously? I never understood that it's a team based game, but this makes so much more sense now. For real.

I think people are more annoyed at the fact that yes, solo rankings on a team based game is always kind of ironic by essence to begin with, but more than that, getting clueless players that crumble under the smallest breeze, or play like clowns in high ranking games in your team makes you wonder how they got there in the first place, on top of ruining your game.

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Originally Posted by Valence

No, seriously? I never understood that it's a team based game, but this makes so much more sense now. For real.

I think people are more annoyed at the fact that yes, solo rankings on a team based game is always kind of ironic by essence to begin with, but more than that, getting clueless players that crumble under the smallest breeze, or play like clowns in high ranking games in your team makes you wonder how they got there in the first place, on top of ruining your game.

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I mean, I think it's clear that Square-Enix didn't really approach ranked mode from a true "competitive game" standpoint - I refuse to believe that there's no one on the team that actually understands the basics of a competitive ladder system. I think they just tried to provide a Diet Coke solution to the problem, because XIV is a game that tends to go out of its way to avoid putting its players in any kind of "you failed cuz you suck" situation unless they more or less explicitly ask for it (ultimates.) That's mutually exclusive with proper ladder systems for obvious reasons. There may also be concerns about breeding toxicity? But you can just look at your average Frontlines game chat and see that they aren't exactly avoiding that kind of thing with the game's PvP, to say nothing of chatwheel spammers present even in unranked CC games.

My firm belief is that they should have hit the ground running with two options: unranked mode, where you may queue with one friend; and formal ranked PvP Teams mode, which would launch a one or two weeks after the initial debut of the mode, so that players have time to get used to things first. I, personally, also would not have released the new PvP mode at the same time as a new savage tier - to me, PvP (particularly "serious" PvP) is something that should be held back for "in-between" patches, since a new savage tier tends to bogart the majority of "hardcore" players for weeks at a time anyway. And the ranked mode would use a typical Elo- or TrueSkill-derived system like everyone else uses.

If that would have resulted in ranked queue "dying"... then that's fine, it's proving that there isn't enough of a "hardcore PvPer" playerbase to support such a thing. At that point, split the queue into "solo" and "play with up to a full team of friends" and be done with it.

Anyone who's been through the gold to crystal ride has seen the people who have top crystal time top damage competitive kills lots of heals but their team loses. Must be their team right? No, it was them running in solo none stop like some bot while spamming push the crystal over and over while the crying whm peppers the log with group up and hello. If you really did well your teammates will commend you. That's your gold star sticker. Congrats!

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Originally Posted by Elfidan

Anyone who's been through the gold to crystal ride has seen the people who have top crystal time top damage competitive kills lots of heals but their team loses. Must be their team right? No, it was them running in solo none stop like some bot while spamming push the crystal over and over while the crying whm peppers the log with group up and hello. If you really did well your teammates will commend you. That's your gold star sticker. Congrats!

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Uhhhhhh... yeah, so...

could we maybe just make it so you don't get punished as hard for being on a team with that dude who runs in solo "none stop like some bot"?

Ah more complaints about the new ranking system *sips tea* Yeah knew this would happen

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Originally Posted by Claustrum

Uhhhhhh... yeah, so...

could we maybe just make it so you don't get punished as hard for being on a team with that dude who runs in solo "none stop like some bot"?

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The problem is there's not really a plausible way of doing so. Riot, Valve, and Blizzard would have devised a solution to it many, many years ago if an automated, hands-off system like that were plausible.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

The problem is there's not really a plausible way of doing so. Riot, Valve, and Blizzard would have devised a solution to it many, many years ago if an automated, hands-off system like that were plausible.

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Riot, Valve, and Blizzard all have a larger pvp playerbase which lets them mix things up easier, and they also don't have a pvp system where it's "winning = +1 point" and "losing = -1 point". It's usually more like "Okay, you lost, but we put you on a team with people who are all ranked lower than you, so you won't lose quite as many points this time." Granted, all of these companies have their own pvp issues, which they are handling in their own ways, but these forums are for FFXIV.

Also, this does not excuse the "WELL IT'S NEVER BEEN DONE SO IT CANT BE DONE" argument.

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Originally Posted by Claustrum

Riot, Valve, and Blizzard all have a larger pvp playerbase which lets them mix things up easier, and they also don't have a pvp system where it's "winning = +1 point" and "losing = -1 point". It's usually more like "Okay, you lost, but we put you on a team with people who are all ranked lower than you, so you won't lose quite as many points this time." Granted, all of these companies have their own pvp issues, which they are handling in their own ways, but these forums are for FFXIV.

Also, this does not excuse the "WELL IT'S NEVER BEEN DONE SO IT CANT BE DONE" argument.

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Actually the amount of points you lost changed depending on the difference in the average rating of 2 teams back in Feast days :p

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Originally Posted by Nanne

Actually the amount of points you lost changed depending on the difference in the average rating of 2 teams back in Feast days :p

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Does not change the fact that they're right though.

Something funny about CC is you actually get disproportionately punished for playing well, even beyond the degree to which it happens in other PvP games with SBMM.

The reason for that is the gcd based combat, which makes for gameplay with a very low skill ceiling. I'm sure you've noticed that when someone gets picked off, the team fighting 4v5 becomes heavily disadvantaged to win that engagement. As the odds get worse, 3v5, 2v4, it quickly becomes almost impossible to prevail. Unless you're desperate to stall the match, your best recourse is to run and regroup.

When the combat is fundamentally just rolling your gcd, it's very hard to overcome a difference in manpower. This isn't an FPS where even a single person can threaten to ace a team with raw skill, it's more like trying to do a parse run with someone dead.

As a result, the weakest player on your team controls the match outcome more than your strongest player.

This leads to situations where if you happen to be the highest ranked person queuing in your bracket, you're likely to get paired with the worst person in queue. If that person is a feeder, your winrate that session will plummet to 20 or 30% through no fault of your own. Conversely if you dodge getting put into the 'loser pool' you'll coast along with an inflated winrate and easy games. If you queue randomly then sure, in a big picture sense your winrate will average out close to 50%, but on a match-to-match basis it swings between 20% and 80% in reality. I've never seen a PvP game where so many matches are either stomps or unwinnable.

It applies to top 100 matches too. Sometimes it's beneficial to snipe someone higher ranked because they'll get saddled with crystal 0s while you get a more balanced team. Being the best player in the queue is less important than avoiding getting paired with the worst player in queue.

If you've ever felt like you've gone on a losing streak despite topping the scoreboard and having 0 deaths each time, it's likely due to the above. It takes a lot of fun out of CC for me, knowing that gaming the matchmaking affects your results way more than personal skill does.