Tribute to Zenos

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Originally Posted by Garet

Yea I think Zenos is what a true neutral in D&D would look like. He really does not care about good or evil. Just what he wanted to do and he will do everything to get it. He even stopped the Black Rose so he can wait for us to come back and challenge him again fearing the Black Rose would kill us and any future potential challengers.

I sure hope he comes back. I think although the ending was really awesome with our duel with him, it was a bit too short. I think more could be done with his character.

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I totally agree! Perfect example of a neutral character (chaotic neutral imo) I think there are too many mysteries left about him-if there weren’t, I’d say he was done, but they’ve added mysteries such as his dreams and his voidsent that haven’t been solved yet! And cant really be solved without him in the picture

Okay character, one of the better ones. I felt bad for leaving him in there alone. When waking up and seeing bore teens bawling I could not care less and thought why the boring ones always have plot armor :)

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Originally Posted by Garet

Yea I think Zenos is what a true neutral in D&D would look like. He really does not care about good or evil. Just what he wanted to do and he will do everything to get it. He even stopped the Black Rose so he can wait for us to come back and challenge him again fearing the Black Rose would kill us and any future potential challengers.

I sure hope he comes back. I think although the ending was really awesome with our duel with him, it was a bit too short. I think more could be done with his character.

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I will say... at the end of our duel, we were both lying there in pretty bad shape. Yet, the WoL still lives - don't see any reason why he might not have made it out as well. :) Looking forward to his return, there is definitely more to be done with his story.

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Originally Posted by Faust1105

I will say... at the end of our duel, we were both lying there in pretty bad shape. Yet, the WoL still lives - don't see any reason why he might not have made it out as well. :) Looking forward to his return, there is definitely more to be done with his story.

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Going to believe in his return until something more official is stated by Yoshi, future lore books, or the writer.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Asahi is pretty much the only major character in the game that I've never heard anyone say they like, funny enough.

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Buahaha very true but I was just pointing out that everyone has a different perspective and what is good for one may be bad for another. Kudos to square enix though for being able to create characters in their story that can evoke such passion - whichever direction it goes. Being able to love or hate anything requires said passion to be evoked. Otherwise we'd all just be indifferent :P

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Originally Posted by KaitoAsaha

Going to believe in his return until something more official is stated by Yoshi, future lore books, or the writer.

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Yeah, as much as I hate to admit it after that awesome fight, I think they actually finally sent him to Valhalla.

My only regret is they didn’t nail his usage until Endwalker. He could’ve been hilarious in Shadowbringers.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

Yeah, as much as I hate to admit it after that awesome fight, I think they actually finally sent him to Valhalla.

My only regret is they didn’t nail his usage until Endwalker. He could’ve been hilarious in Shadowbringers.

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I think it would have been neat to play as him once or twice to give us a bit more first hand insight into the fall of Garlemald. Just about everything happened off screen, sadly.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I think it would have been neat to play as him once or twice to give us a bit more first hand insight into the fall of Garlemald. Just about everything happened off screen, sadly.

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Oh my god. Or body swap with him and fight ourself.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

Oh my god. Our body swap with him and fight ourself.

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I'm not gonna lie. That would have been amazing.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I think it would have been neat to play as him once or twice to give us a bit more first hand insight into the fall of Garlemald. Just about everything happened off screen, sadly.

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Yeah, the Garlemald section not being longer is my only big beef with the expansion... Seriously wish more was done with it, considering, but I enjoyed what was there. Hoping for more going forward.

(Apologies if any of this has already been repeated; I'm feeling lazy and have only just glanced through the thread. :X)

Regarding the topic ... never really understood the Zenos hate, honestly. I mean... I get the why of it mostly, since he's a murderous bastard and all, but I think he worked pretty well, evidenced by how polorising he is in the player base. People go on about sympathetic villains and the "depth" of their characterizations/plight (I loved HW, Emet, Elidibus and the Asians in general, don't get me wrong) but honestly... that can get mentally exhausting and overplayed to me. It can result in a sort of "Oh... another one... ok..." reaction, which is never good. Intersperse someone like Zenos who is fairly simple (on the surface, at least) on the other hand, and you're giving the player/reader a break between all this heavy narrative, if that makes sense?

Also, I think he's underestimated and for all the wrong reasons. Yes, he's essentially a psychopath (or has those tendencies since Psychopathy itself isn't a diagnosis anymore) but that's what makes someone like him so terrifying, and not just some mustache twirling villain... as with any real-life psychopath. Zenos can't be reasoned with or appealed to as he feels nothing outside of the rush he gets from a life-or-death battle, and he just keeps plowing forward regardless of what's in his way to get what he wants, damn the consequences. That's scary, and my character wanted to put him down as soon as possible before he could harm anyone else.

This narrative gets sidelined in Endwalker further into the story and yet it works. No longer is he your focus, and he hates it; or as much as someone like him can even feel hate. Try as he might, he just isn't even on your radar anymore as you have far greater concerns; no reason to just drop everything and entertain his desire for a duel to the death... so he goes looking for one for you. Yikes!

That final battle with him was a highlight in the expansion for me. The canon seems to be that while the WoL genuinely enjoys helping people and bettering the world (even while complaining. hello, DRK questline!), she/he does enjoy a good fight (even as she/he may deny it inwardly), and my character(s) certainly does. The WoL has just saved her planet, the universe at large, her friends are safe, and she doesn't really have any pressing matters to worry about. Finally, finally she can have a brutal beatdown with someone without any burdens weighing on her.

EDIT: "Well, why didn't they just show more of how horrible Zenos is?", some say. We've seen plenty of that across 3 expansions now, though really... is more needed? When you hear about a serial killer who murdered 10 children, do you need to have seen the crimes to know how terrible they are? Come on now.

TLDR; Zenos works as a villain y'all haters are just nubs. /s

In all seriousness, I get people not liking a character but it is pretty crummy to go into a fan thread only to complain about them. I'm not a fan of Lyse (don't hate her, just neutral. can take or leave her), but I wouldn't go into a Lyse thread trying to start beef. That's just petty.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

Oh my god. Our body swap with him and fight ourself.

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Thought this is where they might eventually go with it, but alas.