Dizzines & Intense Nausea while playing Tower at Paradigm's Breach

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Originally Posted by Rosenoire

Given how many people are reporting issues with this particular raid, is there a thread we could post on to bring it to the devs' attention?

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At the moment, this is that thread. So if you encounter anyone online that's had issues with this raid then you can ask them to come here and post in it and give their testimony. It's good to have concrete data for Square Enix to review. Also for my personal curiosity as I want to know how many people this actually affects.

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Originally Posted by GenBroadaxe

I've had photo induced seizures since I was in middle school (funnily enough, the ones in front of a computer have all been in front of word processing software vs video games) but I haven't experienced anything at a frequency in the Tower that would have triggered mine. My twin and I both have them, so LED monitors were pretty much a much have as soon as they became affordable since the refresh rate on old CRT refresh rates seemed to be our initial trigger, but slower things have done it too like sunlight flickering through trees while on a bus.

The lack of contrast might be causing eyestrain in some folks which can cause migraines among other sorts of physical discomfort like dizziness. Had a friend who experienced something similar in the Kholusia areas before you get rid of the endless light weather and in the second half of the Mt. Gulg when you're surrounded by white enemies on a white marble background. I always get disoriented a bit in Aphascape 1.0 with the Bowels of Agony attack where the arena goes black, so maybe this is something similar?

The worry of seizures is definitely understandable OP. If this is something unusual for you, it may have been something compounded with other things like dehydration, eyestrain, or lack of sleep. If it's something you're noticing on the regular, it could be an indicator of needing to see an optometrist or a neurologist. Stay safe!

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Appreciated. The severity of the incident was disturbing, but also unusual...the last time this happened was over 10 years ago. Not sure what to make of that though I'm still planning to bring it up with my guy soon. If nothing else he can give me more information.

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Originally Posted by Rise-chu

*snip*
1) Has anyone else experienced this after playing Tower?
2) Have you needed medical attention after playing Tower?
3) If you are diagnosed with epilepsy, what do you do to protect yourself from the particle effects in this game?
4) If you are diagnosed with epilepsy, are you going to play any of the Nier raids or risk Tower at Paradigm's Breach?

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1: Dizziness and Nausea, no, migraine headaches, yes.
2: Not yet.
3: Not Diagnosed, but as far as I can tell, even if one were willing to violate the Terms of Service and modify the game, it's functionally impossible to remove the VFX from those attacks.

Additionally, is there any chance we could get a response from the community team regarding these problems? Even if the dev team doesn't think this is a big deal, hopefully SE legal should realize that this opens them up to liability.

I once had astigmatism, but had surgery to repair it when I was very young, maybe 3 or 4 years old. I personally haven't had any problems with this raid, but I can see how it would cause trouble for other players. Square-Enix should probably do the following:
- Tone down any flashing and flickering effects that are likely to cause problems, particularly with the Red Girl fight.
- Lower the overall brightness and increase the contrast of the zone.
- Add a grid texture to the plain solid grey/white floors and walls in the "Tron world" areas of the raid (I.e. first 3 bosses).
- Slow down the elevator. I've noticed the elevators in the Praetorium are slower, and I haven't noticed anyone complaining about motion sickness there.

In the mean time, until work is completed and the fixes are released:
- Temporarily remove the Tower at Paradigm's Breach from the Alliance Raid roulette. Players wanting to do that raid will have to queue for it specifically and directly (I.e. Duty Finder > Shadowbringers Raids > Tower at Paradigm's Breach).
- Put up a notice on the launcher that players have to click through, warning players that the Tower at Paradigm's Breach has been reported to cause symptoms in certain players, apologizing for the problem, and saying that fixes are in progress and expected to be completed by (date).

I personally haven't had any issues, and I don't have a history of such relating to games or anything else, but I do hope this gets fixed sooner than later. In fact, I'm kind of surprised it hasn't been fixed already given how serious this can be for those who are affected.

While I appreciate the visual elements particularly in the Red Girl fight and hope they don't go away entirely I'd rather other players be able to have a comfortable and, more importantly, safe experience.

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Originally Posted by StriderShinryu

I personally haven't had any issues, and I don't have a history of such relating to games or anything else, but I do hope this gets fixed sooner than later. In fact, I'm kind of surprised it hasn't been fixed already given how serious this can be for those who are affected.

While I appreciate the visual elements particular in the Red Girl fight and hope they don't go away entirely I'd rather other players be able to have a comfortable and, more importantly, safe experience.

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The issue with reducing the effects instead of either entirely removing them or adding a client-side toggle is that even a reduction in the intensity of the fx in this fight will still cause significant symptoms for someone like me.

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Originally Posted by Rosenoire

Given how many people are reporting issues with this particular raid, is there a thread we could post on to bring it to the devs' attention?

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There is, this one.

I am one of those people who gets nauseated/motion sickness playing first-person mode with all the bobbing up and down in tight places. I did not get sick from this new raid, but did find the visuals very difficult to watch and follow. Endless flashing that made it difficult to focus or tell what was going on.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Simply being able to zoom out further would help reduce alot of that I feel. As it reduce the amount of camera spinning you need to do to try and see things

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This is very true, the camera is too tight, the monsters enormous, some too large/high to even target without camera gymnastics. Then there's all the spinning for those "hey, something going on behind you, look for the jack-in-the-box" mechanics.



A wider view is required. I've always suspected some people have managed to hack this, I have seen videos where I wished I could pull the view out that far.

FML, got this duty in an alliance roulette.

Now I'm sitting in game on a half hour penalty because I don't wanna be injured by the development team's irresponsibility.

I am neither epileptic nor photosensitive, however the fight against Red Girl has led to me using a dark gray-blue filter to darken the screen for that part of the raid specifically.

The AoE "Cruelty" in particular are pretty bad for people who may be epileptic, photosensitive or deal with any form of chronic headaches or migraines or eye strain. Personally, I have a moderate astigmatism in a single eye, so perhaps that's why it bothers me so much, as after I finished running it the first time I had an intense headache, eye fatigue and just found it really hard to focus on anything after completing the instance—likely due to all the textureless white utilized in the instance. However, my partner has also complained of similar issues with this raid and afaik they have no past history of any medical problems like others in this thread. We both are now utilizing visual filters to make the raid playable and after a single run last night, this appears have done the trick for us both, thankfully.

No other AoE effect in the game has bothered me in such a way nor did I have trouble with Mt. Gulg at Shadowbringers' launch. However, like many others, I feel its something that definitely needs to be addressed, as while the aesthetic is cool and I appreciate what they were trying to do, I'd hope more care will be taken into considering the effects the, well, effects might have on more vulnerable players.