Sorry, I personally like having a separate estate for my FC and a house for me and my boyfriend to share. Just because we choose to open an FC to help people doesn't mean we should give up our right to privacy/our own home as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by linayar
Also, wiping everyone's property will cause a massive riot. So we also lose all of the furniture we paid for so everyone can have a clean slate? It's not cheap. I personally have sank well over 50 million gil in furniture alone with my multiple re-designs over the past year. If we don't lose it, where do we put all of it? You also can't expect people to carry around all of their furniture or purchase extra retainers to store it all.
The big housing problem, why it isn't the amount of houses
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03-17-2021, 02:40 AMLianaThorne
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03-17-2021, 02:48 AMMoonPhaseAlphaThe issue is player greed. There are lots of players out there that own multiple houses on alts. Some even own half/entire wards on a server to themselves.. These individuals have housing portfolios they gladly boast about. It's ridiculous. If these players let go of their absurd need to own more than one house than more players can enjoy this feature.Quote:
Originally Posted by JiraTyanu
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03-17-2021, 02:53 AMAvatreThis is one reason I feel the "grandfathered in" approach to housing was a bad decision. Anyone who had multiple houses should have been forced to select one(two if one of them is a FC house) to keep, and the rest should have been sold back(get 50% of the gil spent to originally purchase the house back). Though, they really should increase the storage space for housing, especially with them adding more and more seasonal items to them. Make something akin to the armoire that you can put the housing items in, or allow us to have outdoor storage with the appartment.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonPhaseAlpha
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03-17-2021, 02:57 AMLianaThorneI half agree with you. Grandfathered approach was a huge mistake but at the same time, if people own multiple houses and have no where to put the furniture from those houses after storage fills up (i.e. forced to discard if they don't have retainer space) on top of only getting 50% back of what they paid for the house, it's still kind of a meh deal and ultimately still results in a loss. I don't know how well that would go over either. I think they ultimately were forced to go with this approach because of the potential of pissing lots of people off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatre
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03-17-2021, 02:59 AMlinayarIt's an option. It's either that or remove personal housing instead and make housing be for FCs and just have apartments for players. But if they do that, they should restrict it to active FCs with a set minimum number of active accounts as members of the FC to avoid one-person FCs holding a house. And they also need to limit how many players (ideally 1) per world from one account can be an FC leader, if they don't already.Quote:
Originally Posted by LianaThorne
I believe there is a place that temporarily stores furniture.Quote:
Also, wiping everyone's property will cause a massive riot. So we also lose all of the furniture we paid for so everyone can have a clean slate? It's not cheap. I personally have sank well over 50 million gil in furniture alone with my multiple re-designs over the past year. If we don't lose it, where do we put all of it? You also can't expect people to carry around all of their furniture or purchase extra retainers to store it all.
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03-17-2021, 03:02 AMLianaThorneAgain, no. Nothing needs to be removed. As it was stated before, the issue isn't # of houses. We literally just got new wards put in not that many months ago. The issue is how Square implemented allowing people to make alts and get additional housing. I'm not going to be the one to air out how it's done because I also don't want to encourage that behavior. The fact remains, some people own entire wards. That is the issue, not that FCs and personal housing shouldn't exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by linayar
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03-17-2021, 03:02 AMShougun
My favorite horse never changes lol. *takes out dead horse cane* , every year it's the same Xd. . . .
Naturally if houses never allowed players, and stayed expensive, we'd have different issues but the neighborhoods would likely be far more lively and a lot less issues on # of houses needed (new issues being like players wanting houses lol, or perhaps people wondering why the allotted space is so tiny for an entire FC- where many other mmos offer you massive areas with larger item counts). Restricting who can purchase (to disallow owners of whole wards) will not, in the end, stave off the issue- just prolongs before the issue comes to the forefront again. Adding more wards will simply kill the neighborhood vibe as more wards become dead (simply put if they add enough houses so everyone can have exactly 1, you still have problems, some including forced compromise as players pick locations, sizes, and themes, they didn't want to pick but feel compelled to settle for, and if you add so many that people don't have to compromise then literally "what was the point of the ward system" because you WILL have massive majority dead neighborhoods). Tightening the restrictions on visiting to keep them alive will just make players feel like prisoners. Loosening them will ensure they continue to stay dead.
Of course instanced housing, where in the number of potential houses is exactly able to meet the demand of number of potential house owners and the feature set isn't compromised (apartments != house; speaking features), is a thing that has worked well for other mmos. Naturally you wont have uncontrollable neighbors like with wards (you can still have friends over, just not spur of the moment). But then most often comment is that the wards are already dead minus a few exceptions (and of those exceptions a few are quite active, I'm sure they enjoy the feature they have- but many players will only see silly decorations as "neighborhood").
Due to the ward system, as is, the creativity and settings are very limited - which is unfortunate as clearly given the limitations already players are already quite creative (imagine if they could choose their backdrops, skyboxes, scale, z axis, etc, with larger item counts, like some other mmos).
Given the context of this game, the lore, and general play vibes (themepark), I really think the ward system was a mistake, but to be fair I don't think SE had quite nailed down their path so early on and they clearly intended only to give FC houses (which FC only housing would have maintained the neighborhood vibe far better). Currently I just see this system shooting itself in the foot no matter what it does. If you add more houses, BANG- damaged the neighborhood vibe, add less houses so people are packed together better, BANG, increase prices, BANG, lower prices, BANG, no new areas, BANG, new areas, BANG, player wants to take a break as Yoshida suggests it's an entirely valid way to play the game... lose your house and thus held hostage by the game, BANG, allow players to relocate to avoid the resell timer that prevents people from massively overpricing houses - causes someone who waited 10 hours to die inside, BANG, absolute ridiculousness of a recommended and effective strategy of buying a house you have no intention of using so you can use it to relocate to one you did (the ol' use a goblet to buy a 'not goblet' trick). BANG. Damned if you do, damned if you don't- I understand for some less neighborhood like system would be a 'BANG' but I've heard FAR less bad things about systems that allowed players to have high creativity personal housing vs limited systems like FFXIVs (given at least we're not playing hardcore / sandbox games, and of course noting that we don't need to kill the wards to add a buddy system of some sort, or at least that the wards are already bleeding themselves given what's been done so far). In this while I don't wish for the death of wards I sincerely hope they consider other systems, either if they're keeping FFXIV alive as their flagship or in a general sense when they make their next MMO. I have to say the objects in this game are quite cute and pretty, and through glitches (or third party tools.....), people have made some amazing things with what SE has provided but even then SE could have done much better. Sincerely, BANG, this system puts a hole in it's own foot by simply existing as it is currently. Of course even if you do have those benefits that wards provide (neighborhood) not everyone appreciates or even wants that (for some people a place to go relax to or be creative as your homebase, you don't want your neighbor having decoration permission lol).
Of course that's all easier said than done. They have other memory issues they struggle with too so clearly there is a core issue with the game, on top of adding a 'different / greatly improved' housing system being a huge task of it's own. So double huge. Given the rest of the game is good they are not really 'required' to fix it, and the cost that goes into that might be better allocated to other things like more content in general (partly why I kind of wish they are planning to make a new mmo or at least spiritually do another 'cataclysm' in so much that you can tell they rebuilt and refreshed core architecture [doesn't literally have to be ARR part two]).
I kind of doubt that the Island Sanctuary will have full housing but I think they might have partial housing experiences either simply upgrading a homely area or perhaps even to the level of like minor decorating (SE might decorate the majority of the area but then give you a chocobo saddlebag worth of slots to slap stuff around, this is an entirely baseless thought though- they've never said this, I just picture that you might have a homely SE designed area and then give the player some extra slots to tweak things to your preference as a decent yet not too demanding system). I've thought Airships could be this content if the Island Sanctuary isn't, a place to upgrade and act as your mobile outpost (but careful not to replace towns still, no market boards in your airship lol).
There are a lot of systems you could inspire ideas off of from other MMOs, things that worked well / not. I thought, minus that it's cleraly a cash shop spawning ground, the fact you can own basically over 40+ houses in TSO was quite interesting (many of those allowing more than 200+ items too, some to the scale of basically being entire zones). I note that as well because some players do want to own multiple houses, for whatever reason, and honestly if the system can support it then.. why not? Obviously it can sort of here, but at the cost of other's opportunity (which is why others get upset at that, and try to restrict it, which is reasonable given the system is so limited but seems sad that we even have to bother with any of that and ultimately even once the perfect restrictions are in in place it will only delay and mutate the issues at hand). Of course I was impressed with Wildstar due to the fact that it had both neighborhood systems and also impressive controls (like skybox so you can change weather or sky types, space, underwater, ground control, etc- allowing players to basically make anything they can think of). Other mmos have had that, iirc Rift is a bit like that (though I've never played or paid too much mind to the game).
For our current game, if it's going to be their flagship for a long while longer, it would probably be most feasible path if they start to upgrade apartments (perhaps you can have the room even if you own a house, but to begin to upgrade it turns it into a 'home', such that way you don't do weird things further to gardening market by allowing some players to double up further). Get an extra floor like in FFXI, obtain a balcony, a space for your outdoor items and gardening. At the point that apartments basically become a house in every feature (allow FC to do this too, can change the name of the apartments that are basically houses, and then apartments can 'upgrade' / transition into that named content by player and fc choice). However I would hope they could continue with that idea, allowing players to move their apartment to a cottage, gain their own land, continue growing from there, purchase space in Azim steppe, perhaps rather than purchase use creation magic like one zone in ShB. Given the creation magic idea, perhaps relating to MSQ for the point you can unlock it (maybe account wide even), then players can gain access to a wide range of wack-a-doodle objects (like pre-sundering objects) and options (z axis, scaling, no collision, etc). For those who already own a house they would keep their physical address but when they interact with their door they can choose to enter their pocket world or their house as normal. You can lose your physical address (if you stop playing / visiting it) but your pocket dimension and internal housing items would be saved. In this way those who own ward houses are not punished for being part of the 'wrong' system.
Think Howel's Moving Castle (with the cool magical door, heck can even allow players to purchase exists into the city for their house- so like BDO or whatever, like how Howel has a 'house' in multiple cities).
Naturally all that'd be expensive in the end... and why if they do intend to make another mmo semi soon (I would guess it would be announced near the end of 6.0, if it's a thing), that then maybe just keep hobbling along and put their best ideas forward then. Even if Island Sanctuary doesn't have any sort of housing customization I imagine for some it might help a bit. I would suggest, if it's not a thing already, that players are granted an internal structure with some amenities though (perhaps through upgrading, thinking Garrison like)- maybe even use the Inn rooms SE has already designed, or allow players to attach their apartment room to the system. -
03-17-2021, 03:05 AMlinayarSo something needs to be removed. Some restriction needs to be put in place to not allow that to happen. Like it or not, a current house owner needs to be forced to vacate their property.Quote:
Originally Posted by LianaThorne
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03-17-2021, 03:08 AMLianaThorneHow about we start with upgrading apartments since they desperately need it? I go into wards and see apartment complexes with only 10 rooms taken. There is plenty of space left for everyone. The issue is, no one wants an apartment because of how small it is and the limited furniture budget. I'm sure if Square upgraded apartments to be a bit larger and include a small patio so people can garden, apartments would be more appealing.Quote:
Originally Posted by linayar
The only people who should be forced to remove anything are people who own more than 2 houses (one for FC, one for personal) and they should be given adequate compensation as well for what they've spent so they don't cause chaos for everyone else who's trying to move into those houses. Those who are abiding by the rules and only own 2 houses (this doesn't include shared permission personals) shouldn't have to give up anything because we're not the issue. -
03-17-2021, 03:33 AMlinayarThat works with my alternative suggestion that apartments become the sole individual housing whereas houses in the wider residential districts be reserved for FCs, with limits (like 1) to how many FCs one account can own.Quote:
Originally Posted by LianaThorne
Well, if the issue is space, then having two instead of one is still an issue.Quote:
The only people who should be forced to remove anything are people who own more than 2 houses (one for FC, one for personal) and they should be given adequate compensation as well for what they've spent so they don't cause chaos for everyone else who's trying to move into those houses. Those who are abiding by the rules and only own 2 houses (this doesn't include shared permission personals) shouldn't have to give up anything because we're not the issue.
My old FC did this when Shirogane first became available. We had one large house for the FC, and then we bought up nearly all the neighboring houses plus some farther away and even in different wards for our members who wanted and were willing to keep a house. No alts were used. Everyone had one house and the leader had two (the FC house and his own personal house).
So that's one less house for others to use. If we wanted to, we could have used alts to create other FCs that can also try to get their own houses.