Tired of Zenos (spoilers)

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Originally Posted by EgilTheStressedMage

Zenos is also a legitimate sociopathic scumbag whom everyone I ever played with in Ala Mhigo looked forward to tearing his head off and I look forward to actually killing him in 6.0. I don't want to feel sorry for this clown, I want to destroy him. Also hopefully get to slay "Asahi" as well. I have always loved remorseless sickening villains who think they're above God and loved when they died horrible but completely deserved deaths, sometimes fates far worse.

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An irredeemable evil villain can be fun at times. I like Kefka, the Emperor from Star Wars etc. But Zenos just never had any appeal for me. Not every villain needs a sympathetic motive, but he never felt legitimately threatening becuase of how his boss fights were handled/lack of consequences for losing to him and his personality is just kind of dull IMO.

Without any sense of actual danger that bad things might actually happen because of him or an interesting personality etc I just had nothing to latch onto.

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Originally Posted by EgilTheStressedMage

Zenos is also a legitimate sociopathic scumbag whom everyone I ever played with in Ala Mhigo looked forward to tearing his head off and I look forward to actually killing him in 6.0. I don't want to feel sorry for this clown, I want to destroy him. Also hopefully get to slay "Asahi" as well. I have always loved remorseless sickening villains who think they're above God and loved when they died horrible but completely deserved deaths, sometimes fates far worse.

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You don't need to feel sorry for the Emperor either in Return of the Jedi, but he has motivations outside of Skywalker. He has a rebellion to crush and an Empire to run, he needs the Death Star to keep galaxy in line and it's not finished yet. The Emperor doesn't just exist to give Luke an obstacle, he's independent of the protagonist.

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Originally Posted by Edax

You don't need to feel sorry for the Emperor either in Return of the Jedi, but he has motivations outside of Skywalker. He has a rebellion to crush and an Empire to run, he needs the Death Star to keep galaxy in line and it's not finished yet. The Emperor doesn't just exist to give Luke an obstacle, he's independent of the protagonist.

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Yeah, but he doesn't need to be like that. As the emperor, he could've ruled better and not have a rebellion in the first place. He is evil just to serve the plot, and if he is not evil, then he wouldn't exist as a character, just like Zenos serves the plot with his obsession with the WoL.

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Originally Posted by Edax

You don't need to feel sorry for the Emperor either in Return of the Jedi, but he has motivations outside of Skywalker. He has a rebellion to crush and an Empire to run, he needs the Death Star to keep galaxy in line and it's not finished yet. The Emperor doesn't just exist to give Luke an obstacle, he's independent of the protagonist.

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I think Zeno's motivations would work better for a side antagonist. A 'dragon' or 'rival' type etc more than the big bad. Like Grynwaht in Stormblood but not played for comic relief up until the last fight.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Yeah, but he doesn't need to be like that. As the emperor, he could've ruled better and not have a rebellion in the first place. He is evil just to serve the plot, and if he is not evil, then he wouldn't exist as a character, just like Zenos serves the plot with his obsession with the WoL.

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Even if the Emperor was not evil, he would still be the antagonist. Even non-evil Emperors get rebelled against, that's just how the world works. Not everyone wants to live under an autocracy, even if it isn't evil.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

I think Zeno's motivations would work better for a side antagonist. A 'dragon' or 'rival' type etc more than the big bad. Like Grynwaht in Stormblood but not played for comic relief up until the last fight.

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I kind of agree. Having a Boba Fett type character that doesn't care about the main conflict can add a little bit of flavor to the world. But if you make him the main villain it get's weird, it would feel like they were fighting for the sake of having an action scene.

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Originally Posted by Edax

Even if the Emperor was not evil, he would still be the antagonist. Even non-evil Emperors get rebelled against, that's just how the world works. Not everyone wants to live under an autocracy, even if it isn't evil.

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He may have a rebellion, but that would be a different story as the rebels would be evil and Luke would be either evil or join the Empire instead.

(Now I wish Star Wars was like that where Anakin was always good in the prequel, Jedi truly corrupt in evil way, and Luke and maybe Leia too joining their father.)

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Originally Posted by linayar

He may have a rebellion, but that would be a different story as the rebels would be evil and Luke would be either evil or join the Empire instead.

(Now I wish Star Wars was like that where Anakin was always good in the prequel, Jedi truly corrupt in evil way, and Luke and maybe Leia too joining their father.)

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That's not neccessarily true either. It doesn't have to be black or white, good or evil.

At this point, I think the only thing about Zenos that could hold my interest is finding out what compelled him to return after he took his own life. It could be as simple as him realizing he could, and I'd be pretty disappointed if that were the case, but otherwise it's a mystery that could be used for further story development elsewhere.

Otherwise, he's just Discount Sephiroth—a loser who came back from the dead because he's obsessed with the guy who beat him that one time.

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Originally Posted by linayar

He may have a rebellion, but that would be a different story as the rebels would be evil and Luke would be either evil or join the Empire instead.

(Now I wish Star Wars was like that where Anakin was always good in the prequel, Jedi truly corrupt in evil way, and Luke and maybe Leia too joining their father.)

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No the rebels wouldn't have to be evil. Not wanting to be under an autocracy doesn't make you evil. Not every conflict needs to be lumped into a good side and evil side. For instance in an Eastern style story like Princess Mononoke, it's human outcasts fighting with the animals of the forest, both have their motivations to fight but neither side is righteous or evil.

I prefer nuance to outright villainy. Though if I'm going to have to stomach the latter, then I at least want charisma and entertainment. It's like Joffrey and Ramsay from Game of Thrones. Sure, they had very few - if any - redeeming qualities, but they were amusing to watch in their own right. Zenos' contribution to the plot outside of the base Stormblood MSQ has been less than satisfying. He's literally spent most of his time sitting around complaining about being bored as other, more interesting characters have been sidelined for his sake.

That he has inexplicably become the focus of both Garlemald's story and the Ascian story feels undeserved, as if he were simply put there to wrap up both as quickly as possible. It doesn't help that he's hardly threatening in any way to me. If he actually killed someone close to the Warrior of Light in an effort to enrage him and get a good fight? At least that'd make sense. Yet he hasn't and likely won't because the story has, of late, been very averse to lasting consequences and threat unless it's either a throwaway character or a sympathetic antagonist being killed off.