Do the Scions know? (Spoilers)

OK, so...

Given the only mention of Azem's name (title) comes from Emet-Selch's dedication embedded in their memory crystal, and the only person who heard it was us, for anyone else to know Azem's name / title we'd have to be the one to tell them until it becomes common knowledge (though I doubt that'll ever happen). So... inference, but yes, we are the one who told the Scions.

As for Emet-Selch mentioning that Ryne is an "underwhelming reincarnation [of Minfilia]," that's implied to be because he hadn't worked out that Ryne was not a reincarnation of Minfilia despite possessing (some of) the Oracle's power(s). At the very least, no conclusive evidence that Ryne is a shard counterpart to Minfilia has been given; she doesn't appear to have the Echo, didn't awaken it during the starshowers of 5.3, is only immune to tempering thanks to Minfilia's presence and/or Hydaelyn's blessing (re: placebo tempering), and hasn't ever heard Hydaelyn's voice. Oracle or no...

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Originally Posted by Cilia

As for Emet-Selch mentioning that Ryne is an "underwhelming reincarnation [of Minfilia]," that's implied to be because he hadn't worked out that Ryne was not a reincarnation of Minfilia despite possessing (some of) the Oracle's power(s). At the very least, no conclusive evidence that Ryne is a shard counterpart to Minfilia has been given; she doesn't appear to have the Echo, didn't awaken it during the starshowers of 5.3, is only immune to tempering thanks to Minfilia's presence and/or Hydaelyn's blessing (re: placebo tempering), and hasn't ever heard Hydaelyn's voice. Oracle or no...

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I get why people want to see Minfilia and Ryne as sharing souls or being clones, but I really feel like Shadowbringers was suppose to make you look at Ryne as Minfilia's daughter, not her doppelganger. Yes Ryne has the oracle powers she inherited, but she also doesn't have the echo, nor does she look like Minfilia (vaguely at best), and she clearly is a separate soul. Then when you have the Thancred's second chance at fatherhood plot thread, I feel this was the intended way to look at Ryne--a Minfilia offspring.

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Originally Posted by Veloran

That doesn't really explain the instant attunement of their aether or why they broached the problem of Unukalhai being bodiless. It seems to me to be a clear setup for them to be rejoined in the future.

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No it continues to follow through that Unukalhai is Nylbert because both became candidates for their shards WOL. Unukalhai and Taynor attune easily because of the history of Taynor and Nylbert and how they used to work together before Nylbert became a WOL and Taynor was lost in the rift.

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Originally Posted by Kesey

No it continues to follow through that Unukalhai is Nylbert because both became candidates for their shards WOL. Unukalhai and Taynor attune easily because of the history of Taynor and Nylbert and how they used to work together before Nylbert became a WOL and Taynor was lost in the rift.

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I don't know, "Your breath is my breath, your aether is my aether" is kind of on-the-nose.

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Originally Posted by Veloran

I don't know, "Your breath is my breath, your aether is my aether" is kind of on-the-nose.

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Taynor didn't awaken the Echo during the 5.3 starshowers, Unulkalhai has it. They are both 1/14 soul shards. If Taynor was a shard of the same soul, he'd have awakened to the ability. Therefore, different souls.

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

Taynor didn't awaken the Echo during the 5.3 starshowers, Unulkalhai has it. They are both 1/14 soul shards. If Taynor was a shard of the same soul, he'd have awakened to the ability. Therefore, different souls.

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There's really no consistency or hard rules regarding the Echo and awakening it, or anything saying that the same soul will always gain the Echo.

Also even if they're both "1/14" there's actually reason to believe that all shards are not created equal, as with the description we're given of Hydaelyn's power to sunder things it's actually dividing things in half. This would mean the First, as the first shard sundered from the Source, actually has half the aetherial density of the unsundered world, while the Thirteenth, being the last sundered shard, would have like 0.001% the density of the original. The point here is that assuming them to be exactly equivalent is debatable.

That's actually a good point. Looking back over the Caster DPS Role Quests, Taynor reacts with surprise at the WoL's Echo flashback. And given the timeline of events, he probably had zero opportunity to awaken to the Echo in his lifetime up to that point. The end of 5.2 was the earliest he could have awakened to the Echo, and if you "chose" him as the person who approached your room at the end of the quest Echoes of a Fallen Star, he is entirely focused on Ardbert and doesn't mention the Echo at all. Nor does he demonstrate or suggest he's awakened to it at any point after that.

It could be that the writers haven't decided that possessing the Echo is a requirement for two sundered souls to be shards of the same original soul. Which is kind of daft, but hey, it's their story. Or it could be that Unukalhai really is a shard of Nyelbert, not Taynor. The latter seems more likely than the former.

Keep in mind that the spells they were casting that required them to be perfectly in sync were spells Taynor was trained, from birth, to cast alongside Nyelbert. Not a copy of himself. If Nyelbert and Taynor were able to do so together, then Unukalhai learning to do so is not necessarily proof that he and Taynor share the same original soul.

If everyone is a sundered Ancient and all Ancients had the Echo (or the ability that it is a remnant of) then everyone should have the potential to awaken to it when triggered to remember. They just don't for some reason, whether it's personality or mindset or arbitrary aetherial physics.

Perhaps they do not react to the trigger if they died before the calamity and did not witness it?

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Originally Posted by Kesey

I get why people want to see Minfilia and Ryne as sharing souls or being clones, but I really feel like Shadowbringers was suppose to make you look at Ryne as Minfilia's daughter, not her doppelganger. Yes Ryne has the oracle powers she inherited, but she also doesn't have the echo, nor does she look like Minfilia (vaguely at best), and she clearly is a separate soul. Then when you have the Thancred's second chance at fatherhood plot thread, I feel this was the intended way to look at Ryne--a Minfilia offspring.

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That's how I view it. The analogy I used in another thread was exactly that. Thancred felt the loss of his sister/surrogate daughter and couldn't seperate the feelings he had for the original Minfilia from his budding feeling/obligation towards Ryne his niece/new surrogate daughter. While it's easy to say we love our family members, how our relationships connect with one another determine our feelings towards them. I used this example because it happened to me irl, my sister isn't "gone" per se, she's just not a good person; and seeing my nephew reminded me too much of her, it was painful, but it wasn't my nephew's fault. But separating my feelings was difficult at times, because, it goes without saying, that children are a reminder of their parents.

It's similar to a reddit post I saw once, where someone said they loved Lyse's character because they literally lived their life like that for a time. Art imitates life indeed.

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Originally Posted by Veloran

I don't know, "Your breath is my breath, your aether is my aether" is kind of on-the-nose.

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I'm pretty sure that's just a common way of saying we act as one, not hinting that they are one. Kinda like calling someone your shield or your sword, they aren't literally... unless it's an anime, then who knows, lol.