Dps meters

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Originally Posted by RagingStallion

omg chill lol

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Didn't mean to upset you, bro. I forgot where I was and accidentally spoke like an adult. It won't happen again. ;)

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

The idea of a personal DPS meter or a scoring system at the end of a dungeon is all fine and dandy but it's missing the most crucial party about fflogs which is vital to improvement, being able to analyze a detailed report on a fight per fight basis. Seeing a high or low numbers does nothing if you can't figure out why it's high or low. You'll have no way of seeing where you dropped a GCD, accidently broke your own combo, messed up your rotation or where you might've gotten more damage in if you adjusted your rotation/cooldowns a bit.

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Exactly! I think a lot of people may not fully understand why we use the tool. Seeing the numbers during the fight is fine and everything, it gives you a very general idea on how you fair in the fight and who is struggling. But you can't really do much in the moment with that information. The tool doesn't really shine till after the fight, when the logs have been uploaded. Then you can break the fight down, and see where you can improve and what you can change in your rotation.

You can study your job guide, watch a fight guide and think you are doing good/great. That is what most people I know, myself included, say when starting down the road of improving. "I thought I was doing good." We all do things in our rotation, that we are unaware of. It is not till you look at the logs that everything is laid out in black and white. "Ohhh i clip here in my rotation to much, oh man I tripled weaved there. Hmm when this mechanic happens, I seem to be forgetting to keep my god rolling." The tool is so much more than looking at your numbers during a fight, and way more useful.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

I agree that Savage/Ultimate should be an entirely different scene in terms of what's allowed in party interaction. If you want to do progression content you HAVE to be willing to improve, and that involves taking criticism. Protecting people from criticism in Savage makes no sense.

I would assume SE's desire to protect casual players from criticism is mostly focused on the other 99% of the games content, where things are easy and criticism is mostly contentious and pointless. I mean, on these forums I see a lot of people who seem to enjoy nagging and nitpicking casual players in easy content. I can only imagine how insufferable these people would be with parsers they could reference confidently.

I've suggested before SE including a parser, but making it only functional in Savage/Ultimate and on training dummies. It seems like a fair compromise.

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I actually disagree casual content would be insufferable. Initially, yes, you'd have a crop of morons screaming x DPS isn't doing enough damage despite their numbers be decent enough. But here's the thing, those players would inevitably get themselves banned. Within a month or two, people who act this way either will have calmed down due to multiple suspensions or be kicked out entirely.

A win/win if you ask me.

The reason they don't is SE holds a very different standard than the community. A dungeon taking 90 mins is perfectly acceptable whereas any reasonable player would think that absurd. A Samurai being out-DPS by a White Mage in Savage is fine because "more experienced players can pick up the slack for them." While the dev team point to harassment as the main catalyst, it isn't. They don't want players feeling bad about underperforming. A perfect example of this mindset is our Friend List. Yoshida acknowledged its a one way deletion specifically so if you remove someone said person won't feel bad suddenly discovering they lost a friend. Ironically, this has actually led to stalking issues because once you friend someone. They'll always be able to find your location in-game even if you change names. It's a horribly shortsighted system but they won't change it to avoid hurt feelings.

How about a compromise? A built in meter which at the end of a run shows what percentage damage and healing were done by each player - rather than raw numbers?

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Originally Posted by AnnaUK

How about a compromise? A built in meter which at the end of a run shows what percentage damage and healing were done by each player - rather than raw numbers?

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My earlier point still stands, seeing a number or a % damage done does nothing to help a player improve. Unless there is detailed data on what you did during the run it literally serves no purpose than to stroke your own ego or see that someone was performing sub-par, but not WHY they were doing so.

Well I am happier without it because I have seen what it's like with it. In another game even people levelling got kicked for low dps.. and scaling was so broken.

I like that we don’t have to deal with people getting kicked from low level dungeons over dps meters like happens in WoW.

Surely there’s a way to add an official dps meter for static raiding groups though. Can’t see where the harm would be in a toggle on/off tool that you can only find if you’re looking for it and group consents to it.

Also when you finish a pvp game it tells you how much healing and damage you did, how many you killed and how many you assisted.

Since I started pvp I’ve seen my numbers gradually rise and rise. Sure I would be getting better anyway but it’s nice to look at and think ‘oh I had a bad game or oh I broke x amount of healing’. I think i was the top healer once.

And here’s the thing I wasn’t looking to see who was the worst healer or to find excuse why we lost. I’m sure some people do that but me and I assume most people are only really interested in themselves and improving.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

Surely there’s a way to add an official dps meter for static raiding groups though. Can’t see where the harm would be in a toggle on/off tool that you can only find if you’re looking for it and group consents to it.

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It would need great care in the implementation or there will be pressuring in PF groups along the lines of "consent to dps metering or be kicked".

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Originally Posted by tdb

It would need great care in the implementation or there will be pressuring in PF groups along the lines of "consent to dps metering or be kicked".

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I mean, why is that a bad thing? You aren't entitled to a clear because you want one. You're joining someone else's PF and they can put whatever restrictions they fancy. You, in turn, can make your own PF. If people aren't willing to join it because you won't allow a DPS meter, then the community as a whole has spoken. They prefer DPS meters. Saying there needs to be "great care" is essentially saying, "we need to make sure people can still mostly join whatever PFs they want."