The Devs have no idea what they are doing with FFXIV’s crafting and economics..

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Originally Posted by Nandrolone

1: Cant vet crafters get a single thing they actually want out of the game? And no, expert recipes aren’t it. It’s just a meaningless mini game with no rewards we care for. (read my post on caimies thread)

2: Cant we get at least one thing we want without players like you constantly trying to argue and shoot them down back to where they were? not everything needs to be shared, some things should require hard work and effort.

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Might be on to something there. After reading most of his posts, I have noticed he isn’t interested in a conclusion, only arguing. As most other posters here in the crafting section are. I suspect they just don’t want Veterans to have anything to themselves like in the past.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

The window is barely a week. That's pathetic compared to the past.



Seriously? I'm getting tired of spelling out how to get hundreds of free materia easily. I've posted it multiple times, there is no cost to endgame crafting. None, just a tiny bit of effort.

It's fairly obvious from your posts that you really hate FF14 crafting. That's fine, it's not everyone's cup of tea. But coming to a crafting thread and arguing over something you hate with people who enjoy crafting and just want to leave feedback makes no sense.

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Yes. Seriously.

Some don't. Some do. That's the point of having options. That's why trying to say the sky is falling because there's too much crafted gear is false. i380 crafted is only better if pentamelded, and even then, that's only if the i390 stat set up isn't favorable to your class, while also ignoring that i390 tome is upgraded to i400 which is significantly better than crafted gear, while perfect stat Alliance raid has a place if both i400 tome and savage are the worst combination with i380 pentamelded being unfavorable allocation.

Regarding my actual opinion on the crafting, it's serviceable, but I've had both better and worse. The crafting itself I wouldn't care if it simplified more, but I wouldn't be opposed if it gained more depth as well, but the end result is what I enjoy.

The luster wore off very quickly in ARR when it was obvious it was just a basic number puzzle and you repeat the solution ad-infinitum. About as engaging as having to press "Craft" 27-45 times in WoW, only there is that small possibility your craft became worthless.

I don't hate it. I just ain't going to put it on a pedestal it doesn't deserve.

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Originally Posted by Octolusy

Might be on to something there. After reading most of his posts, I have noticed he isn’t interested in a conclusion, only arguing. As most other posters here in the crafting section are. I suspect they just don’t want Veterans to have anything to themselves like in the past.

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I've already had these conversations months ago with people using different screen names.

I don't care to repeat them.

Edit: Well, maybe just the once.

1. I'd like more complex systems. Games older than this one have sported much better systems and economies, though admittedly not in the Themepark genre of MMO. However, the simplification of the current system isn't disagreeable. It really is just moving a notch or two along what is ultimately a very large scale that's only being looked at within a very small frame of reference. For example, if we were to go from simplest to most complex, the gauge looks like

Warcraft --> SWToR --> FF14.

However, if we were to expand the scale to not be so narrowly focused we'd have

[WoW/SWToR/FF14] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------>[Black Desert Online] --------------------------> [Star Wars Galaxies]

And this is ignoring a great deal many more systems available in a great deal many more online games.

2. Wanting a more complex system doesn't mean I want to exclude others.

3. I don't have an answer to satisfy everyone. Attempts at compromise got shot down pretty hard because in the end it all came back to gil.

The craft difficulty didn't matter, as long as the process turned off a majority of players.
The reward itself didn't matter unless it netted high amounts of gil.
The inherent struggles that FF14's systems put on itself didn't matter, because then it would mean less net gil gain.

It's the primary reason I've stayed out of Camie's thread. They do good work. No reason for me to jump in there and be like "Uhm, ackshually" with everyone I personally disagree with. They give me plenty of opportunity to do that elsewhere.

Crafting needs Balance. Their needs to be end game for causal and hardcore crafters not just one side. Right now their is only end game for causal crafters nothing for the hardcore end, if their ways none of this talk would be happening. For the record SE does not want master recipes being difficult that only a niche few can do them. With that stance in mind they need to introduce something to take the difficulty spot it once held so hardcore crafters have something to chase after. Nan suggested Grandmaster recipes on the suggestion thread started by Caimie I see no problem with such a thing being added.

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Originally Posted by LostCroisanf

MAX MELDED PLAYERS SHOULD STILL HAVE A HARD TIME CRAFTING NEW RECIPES! it shouldnt be a cake walk even for them. the hell?

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If you give me a crafting system that does the above w/o RNG influence, that requires actual thought to be put into success: sure. Have at it.

If you want ARR-style RNG back: RNG has nothing to do with "hard" and "skill". Only with "tedious" and "out of your control".
No thanks. I like the new system 10x better.

As for the gil: umm.. I still don't see any point for gil in this game outside of housing and wanting glamor items right after a patch drops.

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Originally Posted by Octolusy

I suspect they just don’t want Veterans to have anything to themselves like in the past.

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I'm all for vets having stuff. I'm all for stuff that requires intelligence and skill to work out.
I do not want dumb RNG and "who has the most RL time to dump into a braindead boring activity" to be the deciding factors though.

Yes I realize some people here love to feel "accomplished" for sinking xxx hours into crafting each week and pushing through the layers of grind and RNG.
I just find it completely lame and nothing to be proud of. Any bot program can do that.

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Originally Posted by LostCroisanf

making regular crafting so mindless and easy...taxes....easy master books...you do realize that doesn’t motivate people to NOT buy gil.,,it makes them MORE LIKELY to buy gil from rmt.

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I disagree with this idea. High priced desirable items on the market board causes RMT.

Why? Because I'd argue the vast majority of people who do buy from RMT don't actively, and most likely will never, craft/gather and possibly don't even sell most of their items on the market board to begin with. All of their income comes from activities that give gil that doesn't include the market board, like running dungeons. Since prices have fallen on almost all of the market board items but the amount of gil made from non crafting/gathering activities hasn't gone down they are more likely to already have the gil they need to buy the item they wanted without wanting to buy from a RMT.

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Originally Posted by Nutshell

I disagree with this idea. High priced desirable items on the market board causes RMT.

Why? Because I'd argue the vast majority of people who do buy from RMT don't actively, and most likely will never, craft/gather and possibly don't even sell most of their items on the market board to begin with. All of their income comes from activities that give gil that doesn't include the market board, like running dungeons. Since prices have fallen on almost all of the market board items but the amount of gil made from non crafting/gathering activities hasn't gone down they are more likely to already have the gil they need to buy the item they wanted without wanting to buy from a RMT.

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Literally everything causes RMT. There’s no possible way to prevent it. It’s going to happen no matter what.

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Originally Posted by Nandrolone

Literally everything causes RMT. There’s no possible way to prevent it. It’s going to happen no matter what.

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Not everything causes it to happen as much as others. The developers can design the economy in a way that discourages RMT, not eliminate like you seem think it has to be, from happening.

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Originally Posted by Nutshell

Not everything causes it to happen as much as others. The developers can design the economy in a way that discourages RMT, not eliminate like you seem think it has to be, from happening.

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No, they can't.
Gold has been pretty useless in WoW at times, yet RMT still existed.

Gil is as useless in this game as it gets outside of housing and crafting has little impact on that. Gear drops in value at a ridiculous pace, being affordable to the masses after a week or two.

BTW: I wouldn't blame crafting for the prices. Crafting has very little to do with it, the only stuff that is expensive are the sort of rare RNG based treasure map materials. These would be just as expensive if crafting was a no stats 1 button thing.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

No, they can't.
Gold has been pretty useless in WoW at times, yet RMT still existed.

Gil is as useless in this game as it gets outside of housing and crafting has little impact on that. Gear drops in value at a ridiculous pace, being affordable to the masses after a week or two.

BTW: I wouldn't blame crafting for the prices. Crafting has very little to do with it, the only stuff that is expensive are the sort of rare RNG based treasure map materials. These would be just as expensive if crafting was a no stats 1 button thing.

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Yes, they can.

No they can't "stop" RMT but the amount of real money being used to buy from RMT can be lowered. The goal isn't to stop RMT but to limit the amount of money people spend on RMT. The less these people spend on RMT the more they may be willing to spend on the Mog station, right? lol

Look it's not that I "blame" crafters for RMT, it's that I think that kind of thinking, where lower MB prices causes more RMT, is false.

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Originally Posted by Nutshell

Yes, they can.

No they can't "stop" RMT but the amount of real money being used to buy from RMT can be lowered. The goal isn't to stop RMT but to limit the amount of money people spend on RMT. The less these people spend on RMT the more they may be willing to spend on the Mog station, right? lol

Look it's not that I "blame" crafters for RMT, it's that I think that kind of thinking, where lower MB prices causes more RMT, is false.

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TFW they added Eastern Cherry Trees to the Mogstation because they (On Gilgamesh) range from 12-16 million per tree.

Which was my fault, but lets not go pointing fingers here.