Why can't Dungeons be longer/harder, but more... piecework?

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Originally Posted by Malmstrom

It all sounds well and good until you actually put it to practice.
Wildstar tanked partly because the dungeons in that game were brutal when the game came out.

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The difficulty of Wildstar wasn't what tanked it; When i played i was regularly able to find people early on to do the dungeons.
What killed Wildstar was nearly zero support for the game, the idea that they should fix bugs/etc that impacted large amounts of players in patches every 3-4mo instead of hotfixing issues that needed fixing, along with a very finicky mod-scene where no one could get their UI mods (etc) to work right with the game; and all of this was in addition to a lot of systems (aside from housing) being user unfriendly.
So, i can agree that you're right in that it was partly the reason.. but it was hardly one of the larger reasons. If they actually fixed the issues that caused people daily frustration, people wouldn't have left the way they did.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

What's your basis for the statement about the main demographic in this game?

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he/she doesn't have one, but he/she thinks its true so it must be true.

the fact is that the casual gamers have always paid the bills for MMOs while the "hardcore" reap the reward while bitching the most.

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the fact is that the casual gamers have always paid the bills for MMOs while the "hardcore" reap the reward

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That depends on which of the numerous axis' you're choosing to define hardcore on at any given time.

Theres multiple games which only have a "hardcore" base, and theres several who make more money off a hardcore base than the "casual" base.

The freemium model of games, MMO's included, is overly dependent on the whale spenders to stay alive, and theres entire sections of the industry dedicated to the psychological manipulation of the reward cycle to promote that spending.


I've worked with publishers that make clash of clans style games with different skins and korean-style MMO's. The top .2% of spenders spend more than the entire "casual" base combined, per month.

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Originally Posted by Lastelli

People being too scared or too lazy to try it doesn't really make it hardcore content.

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Arguably, it is, because that's one meaningful distinction you can make.

Regardless, any content you have to use the party finder (at least, for NA, maybe EU as well) due to difficulty is definitely not casual content. So if you want to argue that current Savage raid is not hardcore content, you can sort that out with the people who say there is no midcore content, because neither Savage raid nor (arguably) Extreme trial is casual content.

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Originally Posted by Barraind

That depends on which of the numerous axis' you're choosing to define hardcore on at any given time.

Theres multiple games which only have a "hardcore" base, and theres several who make more money off a hardcore base than the "casual" base.

The freemium model of games, MMO's included, is overly dependent on the whale spenders to stay alive, and theres entire sections of the industry dedicated to the psychological manipulation of the reward cycle to promote that spending.


I've worked with publishers that make clash of clans style games with different skins and korean-style MMO's. The top .2% of spenders spend more than the entire "casual" base combined, per month.

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this is a subscription based MMO, should have been obvious that i was talking about those not Korean p2w cash grabs that rely on whales.

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Originally Posted by Vulcann

this is a subscription based MMO, should have been obvious that i was talking about those not Korean p2w cash grabs that rely on whales.

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This may as well be considered one of those kinds of games, really. The last word was (unless it changed since then) that only the game sales and mogstation sales get fed back into XIV, while the subscription and other services get used to fund other SQEX projects.

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Originally Posted by Vulcann

he/she doesn't have one, but he/she thinks its true so it must be true.

the fact is that the casual gamers have always paid the bills for MMOs while the "hardcore" reap the reward while bitching the most.

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Or you can google how many people cleared savages and compare them to active subs statistics. Thats not that hard.

If I understood one of the options correctly it would be that there would be drops in the dungeon that you could use to later open different areas of it on another run or on the same if your party decided to. I like this idea, you could still get your quick weekly run in and if you want to later opt for the longer path which would give whatever reward. The problem does still become what do you reward for the effort put in. I don't like the idea of putting relic items behind this because you may be in a position where you just cannot get a party to run the extra bit for what you need, especially after the content is new. That has been forever the problem with changing dungeon design to be longer or more difficult, what do you offer to make the effort worth it. SE has already set the bar with the current design, so making anything more difficult has to offer more than we already get.

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Originally Posted by yukiiyuki

Or you can google how many people cleared savages and compare them to active subs statistics. Thats not that hard.

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Usually my stance is "That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence", Buuuuuuut I thought I might give this a go.

Using my Google Fu, as per your request, I came up with Omega 8 Savage Clears. It doesn't look good for your chum DRK though. While JPN Has a Solid 13.21%, US and EU had the rather dismal showings of 2.57% and 3.00%.

Next was SB Ultimate Clears, Make of these what you will.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4yslWQW...jpg&name=large

If anyone has any more up to date census let us all know.

So about that who's funding what?

Found it, Eden clears based of Hover car as of October 2019.
https://livedoor.blogimg.jp/luckyban...2/b2a09341.png