More 8 man dungeons?

Oh yeah....
I kind of forgot that the MSQ duties were special in this way.
I wouldn't mind them, but mechanically they really need a reason to actually exist.
You know, make use of the fact that the party has two tanks and healers.
The MSQ dungeons get away with being the cheesefests that they are since they were the first level capped dungeons in the game. (and cutscenes make them take long enough as it is)
Thinking about it it is somewhat surprising they haven't added any more eight man dungeons since, well, the release of ARR.

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Originally Posted by SkizzleAbernath

Pretty much as the topic says. There seems to be a huge desire for 8 man dungeons that are not raids. Something similar to the main story roulette but not a main story dungeon with long cutscenes if you know what i mean.
Is there a reason for this not being a thing yet?
It gives us the chance to help more people and take along more people from our FCs/friendslist/LS so more people can get xp and do things together.

EDIT: Just to clarify since people are jumping to conclusions really fast, NO ONE WANTS LONG CUTSCNES THAT ARE UNSKIPPABLE. A cutscene in the beginning when you enter and one after the final boss is all thats needed.

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I have no desire for this.

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Originally Posted by Noodle_Trinidad

The original Aurum Vale, Cutter’s Cry and, correct if im mistaken on this one, Dzhaemel Stronghold were all 8 man dungeons that didn’t really have cutscenes. They were pretty much just full dungeons scaled for 8-man with CC even having your party to split up between areas.

More than certain they could bring those designs up to the modern 2.0+ battle system and get something of note, hell bring back the bonus chests for speedrunning, killing certain and/or enemies and the like back to make dungeon glamour acquisition easier.

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Yes I'm aware of how 1.0's dungeons worked. And as much as I'd like to go into detail about how those dungeons worked too (being a 1.0 player myself), it's kind of farfetch'd for the devs to re-implement that back into the game. I actually liked old Ifrit and Titan as opposed to the newer version we have in story mode and trial/extreme now. I also enjoyed some of the older dungeons as they were. I also liked hamlet and I sure as hell don't see that coming back anytime soon.

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Originally Posted by Elkanah

If it's not a raid that has loot, it's gonna get some unskippable cutscenes. That's been made apparent after that whole fiasco of msq. Nobody wants that happening a second, third or fourth time. In past Tokyo interviews over the last couple years, they've already stated they're not doing any more 8 man dungeons for MSQ related content. Doesn't make sense for dungeons since we already have the 4 man. Raid is 8 man with loot for DF. Trials have 8 man with loot. Alliance is 24 man, so that's out of the question. So it comes back to only one possibility, which is MSQ with no loot (which means unskippable cutscenes again).

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If the dungeons are not part of the msq it doesn't need any long unskippable cutscenes. The msq just got it because people complained because others didn't wait for them when they watched the endless cutscenes, which were a major design error.
You are just assuming that they gonna get long cutscenes but we can all be very certain that SE won't be that stupid again.

It can work very well if done correctly. Right now the 4 man dungeons are nothing more than a huge button mash with a formula thats 2 bosses before the final boss with really not much to do. Tank mass pulls if there are aoe jobs heal beat boss rinse and repeat. Only boss that I've seen been any different is the puzzle boss in that SB dungeon where you had to walk and do things without actually killing the boss.
8 man dungeons with mechanics could work if you focus it on 1 tank 1-2 healers and the rest are DPS so more people can enter through roulette or you bring more people. The rewards can be as usual gears, minion but the gameplay can be different. You need to split up press levers do a puzzle or two thats different everytime get something from position A to bring it to position B etc etc
Minus cutscenes during the dungeon but all cutscenes are welcomed after the dungeon and a short one in the beginning :)

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Originally Posted by SkizzleAbernath

Right now the 4 man dungeons are nothing more than a huge button mash with a formula thats 2 bosses before the final boss with really not much to do. Tank mass pulls if there are aoe jobs heal beat boss rinse and repeat.
The rewards can be as usual gears, minion but the gameplay can be different. You need to split up press levers do a puzzle or two thats different everytime get something from position A to bring it to position B etc etc

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But, just because 8 man dungeons can be different doesn't necessarily mean they will be different.

As is right now, the current 8 man dungeons are also just a huge button mash. Where tanks just mass pull down slightly longer linear corridors. Where bosses are in fact, less interesting than current 4 man bosses (In so much as most of them don't seem to have many mechanics other than "Here's a bunch of adds. Have funOHWAITI'MDEAD"

Now, given how they mentioned that Ghimlyt Dark took extra long to make than usual dungeons and it in of itself is not a whole lot different. What is the likelyhood that 8 man dungeons would end up being this wholly unique and interesting piece of content that makes full use of all 8 players?

Pretty much zero.

If, they have actually dedicated time and resources developing Raids to cater towards players whom are more likely to participate in mechanics and appreciate design and they churn out essentially renamed trials. What is the likelyhood that 8 man dungeons wouldn't just end up being actual Trials.

Pretty much zero.

Like, the idea behind it is solid. 8 man dungeons could be interesting. It's just, will it ever happen? Probably not. First they need to fix 4 man dungeons and Raids.

Make 4 man dungeons less monotonous and same-y. Make Raids actually Raids again and incorporate similar mechanics as you might want to see in 8 man dungeons (So parties split into "Light Parties" and go separate ways. Where you actually "Raid" a place and go around dismantling for example defences and alarums before diving into an Imperial stronghold. Where there are objectives to interact with things, such as grabbing explosives from the armoury and taking them to anti-airship weapons and then defending them while their timers tick down and blow up the weapons and allow an allied airship to come and drop in reinforcements to push through to the command centre.)

Since, if they aren't designing current 4 mans in interesting ways and they aren't designing 8 man Raids in interesting ways, then it's just going to mean that if they added any 8 man dungeons, they too, wouldn't be designed in interesting ways.

I agree with you that the 4 man dungeon can get very boring and they lack a lot of creativity. Why its become this i dont really know but if you compare with FFXI for example you had to do a lot of things in a dungeon before you reach the designated boss. Remeber chains of promathia? If you havent played FFXI there is a dungeon called pso'xja wich is a perfect example of things to do in a dungeon to reach diabolos. If you do that with 6 people you can surely make something similiar here. Yes I know FFXI is sneak/invi your way to diabolos but you can surely make a curve thats similar where we go through a maze we gotta do certain things to make it to the end. Even temple of uggalepih was creative with making the brush lanterns etc etc.. it doesnt even have to be a timed dungeon.. Something on the world map that requires 8 people to explore would have been a beautiful thing because Duty Finder is among the most unpersonal things introduced to FFXIV :(

It could be good for Free Companies that run events together and what not but outside of that not sure.
They would really need to tune up the challenge part and make it rewarding if they were to actually add 8 man dungeons

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Originally Posted by SkizzleAbernath

I agree with you that the 4 man dungeon can get very boring and they lack a lot of creativity. Why its become this i dont really know

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Because people complained when anyone made their runs longer.

Like, in ARR content there was plenty of little side alcoves with treasure chests and the like. Spending all of 10 seconds to go pick up a chest was too much for lots of people and so they complained. That's how we ended up with Hallway Simulator 2019.

That's why the have to artificially block off the path so people don't just pull everything from boss to boss.

Because people are too impatient to let people have fun playing content.

Probably not helped that the game was designed with this awkward dichotomy. Where new players need to group up to take on Dungeons and Trials for the MSQ, so in order to fill out the queues for this content so players can progress the MSQ, end-game and leveling is focused into spamming Duty Roulettes endlessly. This means any slight deviation starts to add up and annoy players whom are trying to be efficient and maximize their farming (I mean, just look at how many complaints the MSQ Roulette gets about the cutscenes... It takes like 20 minutes to get through the place with cutscenes and gives a hefty reward as compensation (I personally just do puzzles on my tablet during cutscenes... I'm getting pretty good at Sudoku these days))

It's generally why this kind of content that is more interesting and creative needs to be isolated into a niche, as opposed to something that becomes a core part of MSQ or general Roulette play. Since if you're farming it a ton because you're grinding Tomestones or Experience then you don't want each run to take like 40-60 minutes just because there's people who are new and want to experience the place fully.

One can only hope that with the incoming Trust system that looks to allow people to do MSQ duties solo, that they can have more freedom to detach grinding from Duties somewhat, and thus allow more creative dungeons because they don't have to conform to those players that just want to rush through the place 1000 times a day.

The most annoying thing for me, is that they have some decent potential to make really interesting content using some existing systems.

For example, PotD/HoH style deep dungeons with randomized layouts. Where you go in with an 8 person party and some sections have you need to split up into 2 teams to clear a room (Or entire path) each. Where there might be more systems in play to progress through floors than "Kill stuff until the exit opens" such as ye olde coloured keycards xD Then, given Deep Dungeons are based on roguelite games, make it so each room you HAVE to clear to progress through it, so you don't also get the current "Run past everything" meta (So you go in, use a thing to "Activate" the room and then the way you came in closes off and the enemies spawn)

Another example is Eureka. But as an entire raid tier per "Zone". So you can dynamically choose which boss to go fight in what order. Maybe some bosses have certain spawning mechanics, such as killing certain enemies, maybe some you have to search the island for a randomly spawning item that summons a boss, maybe you have to beat 2 minibosses at the same time, but they're on opposite ends of the island. All the while, trying to traverse through actually threatening trash mobs that are about the place.

Just gotta keep in mind that anything that isn't boring linear dungeons and "Trial" style boss in an arena duties with get all these players crying about how long it takes to clear this content they're farming.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Because people complained when anyone made their runs longer.

Like, in ARR content there was plenty of little side alcoves with treasure chests and the like. Spending all of 10 seconds to go pick up a chest was too much for lots of people and so they complained. That's how we ended up with Hallway Simulator 2019.

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To be fair, there's rarely anything worth it in those out-of-the-way chests.