Ive no faith in SE/Yoshi-P when comes to balancing healers

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

Uh... balance usually implies in comparrison with other classes. I mean... how do you balance just one thing? You need something to balance it with. Sure, BRD is a great class. So is RDM. I love RDM. But what has been bothering us and what we are worried about is the balance between the three healers and their competitiveness for static/raid groups in the raid tier content. This is what a lot of us have little confidence in and while the OP does have a very WHM bias, as do I somewhat since it is my preferred healer, the lack of confidence has been resounded by quite a few healers on these forums, so it's not just him/her or me.

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Again. Your mistake was assuming I was talking about balance in the first place. I was simply talking about design.


If they announce Secret of the Lily III come May, rage all you want. I just don’t see the point in raging until we actually know what’s going to happen.

Problem is WHM suffers from both job design and balance problems (one leading into another). Comparing to DPS balance is ok but healing is a thing by itself.

The current endgame of healers is to... well, not heal and if you do, it's preferably in a way that won't sacrifice GCDs that could be used for DPS. So they can address WHM job problems by reducing its clipping issues and boosting a bit its oGCD healing, but that won't automatically make it balanced with Earthly Star, Indom, Fae Union, or Lightspeed, Malefic and Ruin II mobility. And it won't give it a Meta spot when AST and SCH have Cards and Stratagems.
Unless there is a kick in the healing design, WHM needs a job fix and party utility. I don't believe a huge pDPS boost for WHM would make up with the rDPS lost by having a WHM in a team.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Again. Your mistake was assuming I was talking about balance in the first place. I was simply talking about design.

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Balance is the topic of this thread. It's literally right in the topic.

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Originally Posted by Mansion

Problem is WHM suffers from both job design and balance problems (one leading into another). Comparing to DPS balance is ok but healing is a thing by itself.

The current endgame of healers is to... well, not heal and if you do, it's preferably in a way that won't sacrifice GCDs that could be used for DPS. So they can address WHM job problems by reducing its clipping issues and boosting a bit its oGCD healing, but that won't automatically make it balanced with Earthly Star, Indom, Fae Union, or Lightspeed, Malefic and Ruin II mobility. And it won't give it a Meta spot when AST and SCH have Cards and Stratagems.
Unless there is a kick in the healing design, WHM needs a job fix and party utility. I don't believe a huge pDPS boost for WHM would make up with the rDPS lost by having a WHM in a team.

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"Thin Air, Presence of Mind and Divine Benison are now AOE effect"
Done.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

Balance is the topic of this thread. It's literally right in the topic.

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So I suppose I was off topic for discussing job design. Apologies.

Clearly, though, you're still looking to win some sort of argument, so this is my last response to you.

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Originally Posted by Ilyrian

That's interesting - I would take the opposite view.

If I were suggesting a game to someone who wants to learn how to heal I would suggest FFXIV over WoW.

But of course, it all comes down to personal preference/experience - but certainly at entry level FFXIV's healing mechanics are relatively simple compared to the often manic WoW model.
Having to get into the mindset of DPSing and healing may be more of a shock to the player than the actual base mechanics - but the pace of FFXIV (and the GCD), to my mind, make it an easier transition.

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Hmmm, i feel like you may have helped spark a bit of Healer interest in me. At the very least- i could use my Squadron to see what it is like. :O

EDIT: I believe I've just always been terrified of Healing in a MMorpg, because it's the idea of being responsible for everyone in a group/party/raid, and i think i would hate myself if i allowed someone's character to die. D:

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

So I suppose I was off topic for discussing job design. Apologies.

Clearly, though, you're still looking to win some sort of argument, so this is my last response to you.

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No, sorry if I came across that way. I was just confused since you were saying things that seemed inconsistent to me, especially since your initial response to me was quite aggressive.

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Originally Posted by Neoyoshi

Hmmm, i feel like you may have helped spark a bit of Healer interest in me. At the very least- i could use my Squadron to see what it is like. :O

EDIT: I believe I've just always been terrified of Healing in a MMorpg, because it's the idea of being responsible for everyone in a group/party/raid, and i think i would hate myself if i allowed someone's character to die. D:

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As long as you don't spam your most expensive heal when it isn't exactly needed and run to the tank whenever stray adds target you (and come to terms that stupidity and one-shots can never be healed), you should be okay. Our job is to manage unavoidable damage as well as keep the tanks in good standing. Don't waste your time worrying about people who constantly take super avoidable damage (not counting first timers) or die 8 million times to things they shouldn't have because you won't have mana to spend on the fight or smarter allies if you do.

Also, get comfortable with Lucid Dreaming, especially if your mp is low for the refresh.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

No, sorry if I came across that way. I was just confused since you were saying things that seemed inconsistent to me, especially since your initial response to me was quite aggressive.

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I think the point was that OP doesn't have faith that whm they will change for the better; but that's the exact sentiment brds had back with bowmage. We were wrong then, we can be wrong now.

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Originally Posted by lordcruxis

I think the point was that OP doesn't have faith that whm they will change for the better; but that's the exact sentiment brds had back with bowmage. We were wrong then, we can be wrong now.

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That makes a lot more sense, but healers have always had a problem balancing between the three. This is why I brought up MCH which I know some people have compained about a lot. I don't really play my MCH so I was legitimately asking. Bard might be fine now, but MCH isn't which means the two jobs are not well balanced, at least as far as I am aware. From what I understand it's more a rotation and lag issue with MCH than power issues. SE tends to fix one class to the detriment of another so even if WHM comes out fine in 5.0 that doesn't mean that SCH or AST won't get the red-headed step-child treatment and we'll be right back to where we started when 6.0 comes around.

If Yoshida plans on homogenizing the classes like some of his statements have implied... that could be just as bad. Then you'll just have 3 generic healers with 2 having some sort of variety of sprinkles or toppings. Which... doesn't sound all that appealing either. Could we be wrong? Sure. We could be. But we have been let down time and time again.