This. You mentioned how DRG would be nothing without its jumps and BotD, what do you think pld is according to what you think PLD in FF is?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cybylt
It has a degree of holy magic/abilities (Holy Spirit, Requiescat and Royal Authority to a degree, Veil, Clemency), the ability to protect the others (intervention, passage, veil, clemency to save others), and strong mitigation to reflect the job's tanky nature in the series. It also hits quite a bit, since Paladins in FF were no slouches in damage.
If you're saying the job is missing more interaction with its oath, then I agree and disagee. I think oath should be tied to more defensive abilities ( Veil and Passage for example) but even then you can throw interventions, pair sheltron wuth cds for tankbusters, or even use it to fish swipes.
So again, what's missing in your opinion?
Paladin. I dont feel I'm actually playing a Paladin.
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06-09-2018, 04:59 PMSiriusSaltstice
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06-09-2018, 05:00 PMJellybums
I'd like a leg lock magic skill for PLD. You can lock mobs in place for a certain time while you avoid AOEs, pull the stray ones a bit out of reach off the healer, etc. just so it's smoother for everyone.
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06-10-2018, 06:01 AMVCassara
[QUOTE=Reynhart;4697051....[/QUOTE]
No it proves that you can't or I can't write, probably both. I was obviously talking about the core of the job and used DRG as a example to show how PLD design is bad. I removed 100% os dragons unique mechanics and it became very close to Paladin. Doesn't matter how hard you try, you can't deny it.
I've already mentioned what I want to enjoy my Paladin. I want goring blade removed,flash revamp, more magic/holy sword actions, holy spirit removed, a shield oath revamp because it is broken and a more meaningful gauge to the job. I dont' expect to any changes before thr next expansion, i just felt someone needed to say how bad the pld design is. -
06-10-2018, 06:30 AMReynhartThat's the problem, you didn't. By simply adding Cover and Intervention to LNC, you came miles away from what a PLD can do in a fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by VCassara
Basically, your problem is "I don't like what PLD can do so it can't do anything".
Have you considered that perhaps you might be the problem ? If you want that much changes, then you're obviously not playing the right job. You just remind me of all those people that asked for DRK to be changed into a DPS instead of a tank.Quote:
Originally Posted by VCassara
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06-10-2018, 07:17 AMVCassaraQuote:
Originally Posted by Reynhart
Sorry but what is your point? I'm talking about pld design not what it can do.
You're thinking like "omg this is so good they shouldn't touch the job" and i'm thinking "this job is so good but it doesnt have any interesting mechanics, i'm just pressing buttons over and over again and refreshing my dot".
People showed me that I was wrong about paladin being a holy/magic knight, but my point that its design is bad still stands and you won't change my opinion with hallowed ground and sheltron. -
06-10-2018, 07:29 AMReynhartThis sentence describes just about any job in the game. Again, PLD's skills have a lot of strategic uses, you just need to know when to use them. If you don't, then the problem is not the job.Quote:
Originally Posted by VCassara
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06-10-2018, 07:34 AMOrdoric
just throwing this outs there ( yes i am an XI player yes I'm suggesting this) why not change flash to a single target and make the blind be actualy usefull in raids as part of paladin kit for an actual 5 second blind per cast but a long enuff recast to negate the diminishing returns from resist. would that be better ? <besides i want whm to gain banish over stone >
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06-10-2018, 09:14 AMMistakeNotNo, it is not.Quote:
Originally Posted by VCassara
Paladins have a vast array of defensive actions they can use which are unique to them. Many of those are of little us in solo play, true, but the FFXIV Paladin is foremost a tank with several of its actions aimed at helpig a group.
You may not like the Paladin as it is right now, but it certainly has a unique feel and identity to it - even if you can't see it.
In short, you have showed nothing except that you do not understand Paladins. -
06-10-2018, 10:00 AMSipherous
I think you need to play a new class. The Lore of Paladin fits what is actually supposed to be because in Japan the Paladin is called a Knight as there is no word for Paladin in Japanese. Blame the translation team for your issues.
Secondly Paladins in Final Fantasy are Melee Tank Class with small magical inclination to white magic (healing and holy spells). They support the party as the primary body for dmg and self sustain with heals and mitigation. Cecil FFIV, the Paladin Class from FFIII and FFV as well as Steiner from FFXI, and the Paladin Class from FF tactics all have abilities that reflect this ideology. In tactic the Paladin only had 2 holy attacks and a multitude of defensive abilities while useing swords and greatsword to deal massive physical dmg and some of the best weapons in that game came from there.
You claim PLD has to many buttons but that's the jobs true identity. It is the one job in the game that can do everything but raise a player, and I would love to see that ability added as well. A Paladin is the last line of defense for a party, they are the ones who support the party in any way possible. Viel, Passage of Arms, Cover all sacrifice something from the PLD to make sure someone else doesn't die. You complain about oath gauge being useless but it actually was an improvement over sheltron's 30sec CD. You can use two sheltrons in a row now if u save the gauge and it takes roughly 25-30 sec to generate 50 gauge in sword or as fast as 3 gcds or 9 second in shield.
You cannot tie DPS action to a PLD's oath in any way shape or form or people will not use the defnsive actions for the gauge. A PLD job is not to deal DMG, they are a support Tank designed to defend the party. Anything to do with the oath gauge should be tied to mitgating damage for yourself or the party.
Oaths (and Grit) have always been a hot topic amoungst the community because of the massive DPS loss by useing, however they are there in part for learning and for heavy mitigation when needed. Shield oath is effectivly an on demand CD and SE does not expect you to sit an entire fight in it, ever. Its a supplement skill for when shit goes wrong. However is should be noted that a WAR loses a shit ton of dmg potential in defiance in comparison to PLD and DRK who gain night unbreakable defense when they activate shield oath. I took Golden bahamut 5th ahkmorn solo and survived in shield in part to good healing timings and a shit ton of CD's but that first hit would have killed me if not for that 20% bonus from shield. Sword oath is nothing more than a DPS stance for paladin which didnt really need anything offensively, our base GCD attacks have the highest potency among the three tanks.
In that, we are sword and board fighters first and formost and all of our skills beyond rage of halone are learned after becoming a PLD. Circle of Scorn is a GLD ability not a PLD one. Everythign else fits in with PLD as being a defender of the people, a parties wall in the face of danger. WE ARE NOT HOLY KNIGHTS. This taken directly from FFXIV description of Paladin
Paladins are stalwart defenders who seek to protect their comrades. These loyal guardians are skilled with sword and shield, channeling upon holy power to stand as unbreakable walls for their allies, and symbolizes hope among their people.
They Channel Holy power in the following skills
Oaths
Spirits Within (this skill is dumb by the way, it needs to be changed)
Hallowed Ground
Divine Viel
Clemency
Intervention
Holy Spirit
Requiscat
Passage of Arms
Holy power is not something that is designed to kill. WHM the pinacle of the so call holy power have 2 skills that deal dmg based on holy energy, Assize and Holy itself. Everything else is there for healing and recovery.
A Paladin has 3 skills that are holy based and 2 of them deal physical dmg. Spirit and Requiscat, Holy Spirit is our only magic skill and is actually weaker than goring blades massive 670 total potency more if u hit it under buffs.
I think your issue with PLD has more to do with the fact you cant effectively use all the skills or are overwhelmed by them and you want it to be some kinda hard hitting mage tank which it isnt. Paladin will always be a physical defensive wall first magic secondary. Also with the changes to WAR, PLD are effectively the most difficult Tank to play optimally compared to both DRK and WAR not in DPS but in skill usage outside of GCD. -
06-10-2018, 11:33 PMVCassaraWhen I'm replying a thread, I take my time and I read everything before the reply so I won't make what you did. You just replied to my mistake and I've already said many times I was wrong about PLD being holy/magic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sipherous
Once again, I need to play a new class and I already did. I'm playing DRK as a main character now, but you didn't read that, did you? ;)
I don't know what to say aboyt shield oath... Again, you are doing exactly what other people did, you're justifying its design by saying how good it is for something. I don't care about that, I think that an action that you use once or twice during a lifetime is a design flaw. They punish you for using it and you get nothing in return but more mitigation and that's not needed 99% of the time.
You start failing to have a discussion when you start to go personal like "You can't do this or that". This is not the reason I started this discussion and I'm not interested in discussing with people like you, because it doesn't matter how many times I say that you are right or wrong about something, you can't accept what I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynhart
We are one step away from calling each other to Wolves Den and see who knows more about PLD.
You can keep using your so called hard working and complex strategy, I see no problem with that, on the other hand I will be improving my DRK rotation ;).