Revelations from Patch 4.3

MSQ thoughts

I'm really curious as to what they intend to do with Zenos.

As he put it, the only things he has left are his mind and soul, so he's not as much of a threat to us or anyone else as he was before. He could certainly make a mess of things by posing as a Resistance member, but doubt it would be done with any intent other then to get our attention, though that fact in itself is rather concerning since he might try to target someone important to us to try to rile us up...

And even if we "kill" him again, we're still going to need to find a way to get rid of him permanently if he can just casually body-hop after death like that Sahagin priest could.

Took me an extra day to finish MSQ because I ended up iLevel gated. A six month break will do that. I'll sleep on my thoughts and organize them into something coherent tomorrow. Until then:

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Yotsuyu / MSQ

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Oddly enough, I feel better about her than I do a lot of past tragedies we've gotten. Not in the "it didn't feel tragic" sense, but in that it didn't feel blatantly manipulative, as the story made efforts to acknowledge the viability of other outcomes, then gave us a clear look inside her head on the way to the outcome we actually got.

I also feel like it was the sort of event that could have some extra payoff down the line, though hopefully nothing that would give her tragedy some positive "purpose."

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Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

The biggest fallout of "killing an Ascian" is not if the Ascian is actually dead. It's that they are not in whatever host they possessed and can no longer manipulate a situation from that host. The most damage the Ascians managed to do against the Scions stems from the fact that the Scions had no reason not to trust Thancred with all their information. The odds of them manipulating situations elsewhere from possessed hosts no one knows are Ascians is very high (Suishi of the Violet Tides is a good example). The big problem is, so far we've never seen anyone figure out how to tell if people are actually possessed by Ascians... but you'd probably need to be able to do that if you're specifically hunting Ascians...

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I think one could identify them thanks to the black crystal. Thancred was wearing one and they need it to bind them to their hosts. Even Minfilia seems to have such a crystal but a white one. (I hope I remember that correctly)

about the raid 24 lore:

i feel the quest of the wine was more for foreshadowing about lea monde than really link the quest of the raid 24. what is interesting to note, is the presence of character like ashe and rasler in the story, while the last live letter the creator have said that the story was mostly a story around FFT, but this raid is more about FF12 than FFT only. a lot of reference was dropped here.
the real question is do all this lore added to the game will be used or ignored, because they talk of a lot of element from Dalmasca, like nalbina fortress, lea monde, rabanastre, etc....

because it's possible to create a dungeon from nalbina fortress or even use lea monde for create a deep dungeon or an area a la eureka (with a better system please)... honestly this raid is like a big teaser about an area of the world and we can wonder if it will be one of the new area we will visit in the next expansion or if we ever visit it.

this raid did added soo much to the game, the question is do they will use it or not.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Also that primal fight was another hint that we are doing them alone. No other adventurer was with us and we would not have the time to gather more otherwise she would have just gone and start tempering people

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Your adventurer friends were guarding the exit, Hien sent them through when he was leaving :p.

Ten character filler to let me edit in my post.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

MSQ

Asahi goaded her into incarnating as Tsukuyomi as predicted (I figured out what was in the crates well before then)

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I found it amusing that he also had the crates set out in the open in Castrum Fluminis during their first meeting this patch, where he revealed his parents. That didn't trigger Yotsuyu yet, though, so he took the crates back.

I'm imagining an alternate what-if scenario where Yotsuyu refused to give into her despair, so Asahi keeps following her everywhere and needling her, except he keeps getting interrupted by the big Garlean magitek transport also following them around carrying all these crates of crystals just in case.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

I figured there must have been a reason they focused on the white mask in the closing scene, and given no Ascian is known to use a white mask there must have been something special about it.

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Technically Unukalhai.

Of course, Unukalhai's mask looks nothing like the usual Ascian mask, so your point stands.

I did find it odd that Shadowhunter keeps Gaius's mask on his belt, next to the Ascian masks he keeps as trophies. To what purpose? (Speaking from a Watsonian point of view, I mean. I know the Doylist reason is to let us viewers know that This Is Gaius.)

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Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

That said, given that Gaius was the one who was running the place, I don't think it's too far fetched to suppose he knew of other ways to get out of there. As far as opportunities to fake your death go, it's a really good one to take advantage of. It's not like people are going to look for you if they know you're dead.

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I'm rather curious why Gaius felt the need to fake his death even from his own legion. (Or did he? It's not like we talked to many XIVth legionnaires after the destruction of the Ultima Weapon.)

The remnants of the XIVth legion are obviously still around, and based on the RDM questline they're still nominally in charge of Castrum Meridianum, so Gaius would have had to escape from there without the knowledge of his own troops, if he wanted to fake his death. Presumably the chaos of the Praetorium's destruction would help, but said destruction happened right on top of Gaius, so that might cancel the advantage.

I'm also curious why Gaius chose here and now to show himself as Shadowhunter. He must have had some way of obtaining information (especially since his spymaster Nero is now working with us), since he was obviously waiting in the middle of the Burn (a huge desolate region with nothing of interest and much danger) at exactly the same time and place as the airship with Alphinaud to get shot down and attacked by the Royal Guard. This was obviously planned, but how is the question.

24 man raids:

So it seems that the people that built there may be related to Garleans but it seems that they were forced out by an explosion. Question is, was this done in an accident or did someone force them out. If its an accident, its bad for them but who knows what they were already doing there to have something blow up that much, that they need to leave that huge complex behind. Also if you are already technological advantages to built something like that why would they have much problem later on? Or why even go to a place that has harsh living conditions? I mean if they have such a knowledge and were able to built on an island why couldnt they just built good things for them from the very start? Or did they for some reasons split up?

But its interesting how again, an quite advanced race had their home blown up and which seems to have been their downfall since not much is known about them.

I am curious if the theory that Garleans might have been descendants will be true or if this is a lesson for Ramza and his father and they will find out that it has nothing to do with it. (Or that they failed thanks to their own pride and had to leave this place behind thanks to that.)

We can also only just assume what and why that happened with the colonists. If Livia was already involved then this happened while the empire was already getting more lands by conquering them. So I doubt they just went there peacefully. If they slaughtered Garlean children and those that cant defend themselves then its bad but if its was mostly soldieres living there and posing a threat I can understand why they would attack them.

Anyways those information were quite nice, sad that they had to stretch it with a fetch quest.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Your adventurer friends were guarding the exit, Hien sent them through when he was leaving :p.

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Thats why we see them running towards us or just exactly leaving again when Asahi appears. ;)

Reply to a couple of points and some rambling.

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

I'm rather curious why Gaius felt the need to fake his death even from his own legion. (Or did he? It's not like we talked to many XIVth legionnaires after the destruction of the Ultima Weapon.)

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Going into rampant speculation mode here.



I would put it down to a combination of his hand being forced and him being caught off guard. He would have stayed off radar as long as he could, but I think he was genuinely surprised by Alphinaud's presence, and the remark about "Some small history with your order" was not something he would have intended to say if he had been thinking clearly. He soon recovers and gives them the false name.



Assuming it is Gaius, I imagine his mind changed the instant he saw the Castrum blowing up around him. He curses Lahabrea for the act - "this was not my intention" - and, I suspect once he is rehabilitated, he sets out on this course.



As former viceroy of Ala Mhigo, he would probably know how to cross his own Wall undetected. As a high ranking Legatus, he would still have contacts. Maybe he couldn't trust anyone in the XIVth, or those few with him are the only ones he could trust? Or he's picked them up on the way. He would also know imperial territory very well, and would know the good places to hide.


Last random note on this; Fordola.


Whatever is to come for her, if she lives, a reunion with Gaius is probably on the cards. Maybe she will be the one to actually "unmask" him? I know they're on opposite ends of the world at the moment, but that can change.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

24 man raids:

So it seems that the people that built there may be related to Garleans but it seems that they were forced out by an explosion. Question is, was this done in an accident or did someone force them out. If its an accident, its bad for them but who knows what they were already doing there to have something blow up that much, that they need to leave that huge complex behind. Also if you are already technological advantages to built something like that why would they have much problem later on? Or why even go to a place that has harsh living conditions? I mean if they have such a knowledge and were able to built on an island why couldnt they just built good things for them from the very start? Or did they for some reasons split up?

But its interesting how again, an quite advanced race had their home blown up and which seems to have been their downfall since not much is known about them.

I am curious if the theory that Garleans might have been descendants will be true or if this is a lesson for Ramza and his father and they will find out that it has nothing to do with it. (Or that they failed thanks to their own pride and had to leave this place behind thanks to that.)

We can also only just assume what and why that happened with the colonists. If Livia was already involved then this happened while the empire was already getting more lands by conquering them. So I doubt they just went there peacefully. If they slaughtered Garlean children and those that cant defend themselves then its bad but if its was mostly soldieres living there and posing a threat I can understand why they would attack them.

Anyways those information were quite nice, sad that they had to stretch it with a fetch quest.

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re: 24 man raid

In the prima vista they tell you that apparently the explosion was created by ramza fighting the brother of construct 7

All re. MSQ

Re. 'Zenos the Elezen'... while not particularly important, it's also possible he's either possessed a Garlean or *has* somewhat transformed his host into his old self. All we've actually seen is that he's wearing a hood with Elezen ear-flaps stitched into it, and the 'beak' of the griffin design hides whether he might have a visble third eye.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Shadowhunter:

How has he been killing Overlords? How did he get from Eorzea to the Burn? Unknown, but I suspect those questions will be answered in time. He may just be killing the hosts; they need to use their Dark Crystals to return to the interstitial world between dimensions; if they're stopped from using them as Thordan did that's not an out, and if there is a way to prevent the possession of a living person they're no more invincible than the black masks.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

I think one could identify them thanks to the black crystal. Thancred was wearing one and they need it to bind them to their hosts. Even Minfilia seems to have such a crystal but a white one. (I hope I remember that correctly)

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I'd have to find the cutscenes where it's explained, but I thought the crystals were for, as Alleo said, binding the Ascian to their host and not their power source for returning to the world between.

If I remember correctly, the crystal Minfilia had was just a replica.

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Originally Posted by Chewy2nd

re: Shadowhunter

Is it possible he possess' the Heart of Sabik still? He could have took it from the remains of the Ultima Weapon, given that it is an ancient relic of unknown origin, perhaps it can hold Ascian souls, like the Eyes of the first brood

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That's a really interesting idea! It seems a lot more plausible than "he's just that powerful", which seems out of scale with what we've seen so far.

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

I'm imagining an alternate what-if scenario where Yotsuyu refused to give into her despair, so Asahi keeps following her everywhere and needling her, except he keeps getting interrupted by the big Garlean magitek transport also following them around carrying all these crates of crystals just in case.

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Hahaha, I like that mental image! I could picture it as a comic. And the increasingly frustrated faces he'd be making as it failed every time.

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

Technically Unukalhai. Of course, Unukalhai's mask looks nothing like the usual Ascian mask, so your point stands.

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Is Unukalhai technically an Ascian though? I was of the impression that he's something like one, but not quite, and perhaps a unique case.

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

I'm also curious why Gaius chose here and now to show himself as Shadowhunter. He must have had some way of obtaining information (especially since his spymaster Nero is now working with us), since he was obviously waiting in the middle of the Burn (a huge desolate region with nothing of interest and much danger) at exactly the same time and place as the airship with Alphinaud to get shot down and attacked by the Royal Guard. This was obviously planned, but how is the question.

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I didn't get the impression that it was planned - Shadowhunter's part in it anyway. They could have been nearby (doing whatever it is that Ascian-hunters do in an aetherial wasteland) and seen the ship go down? Or even have a camp in the area. If I'm remembering the earlier lore reference right, I think there are tunnel-caves from giant sandworms? As pictured on the world map. I hope I'm not pulling this out of nowhere. Will try to find quotes. May edit this later.

In any case, he's completely unwilling to tell the others his actual identity, so it doesn't seem like he's "choosing" to show himself here, so much as he came to some people's rescue and it turns out that one is his ex-enemy.

(I wouldn't be at all surprised if Alphinaud works out that it's Gaius, sooner or later, and tactfully doesn't actually ask about it.)

On the other hand, the airship getting attacked in the first place is most likely part of Elidibus's scheme. Kill some inconvenient enemies and blame the attack on the Domans - shooting down a peaceful Garlean ship carrying ambassadors and the prisoners they had just released? What savages! This calls for retaliation!