Is Tanking Boring?

I have been tanking for a long ass time in general and there's one thing that grinds my gear in XIV: the obsession for more DPS. High numbers are great but it never had the same appeal to me as mitigation. The difficulty in this game is all over the place so it's no wonder the community prefers more DPS over, well anything else when there's no need for extra mitigation or healing. It doesn't help that tanks and healers, due to job system, are stuck in a limbo between pseudo dps and main role (main role my ass)

I enjoy tanking in this game. I don't enjoy being pressured into a DPS role when it's not the reason i play a tank to begin with. There's a time and place for everyone in a raid to push DPS but when it's all that matters, there's a fundamental problem in the game design (holy trinity)

Edit: Sometimes i see people in my FC complaining and laughing at random tanks doing X DPS and i just want to say something really bad at them just out of spite.

Edit 2: I think S-E was right on the money with Coil when it came to mitigation, healing and DPS requirements. Shame it went downhill during and after Alex regarding raid design philosophy in this game.

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Originally Posted by Vurtney

I have been tanking for a long ass time in general and there's one thing that grinds my gear in XIV: the obsession for more DPS. High numbers are great but it never had the same appeal to me as mitigation. The difficulty in this game is all over the place so it's no wonder the community prefers more DPS over, well anything else when there's no need for extra mitigation or healing. It doesn't help that tanks and healers, due to job system, are stuck in a limbo between pseudo dps and main role (main role my ass)

I enjoy tanking in this game. I don't enjoy being pressured into a DPS role when it's not the reason i play a tank to begin with. There's a time and place for everyone in a raid to push DPS but when it's all that matters, there's a fundamental problem in the game design (holy trinity)

Edit: Sometimes i see people in my FC complaining and laughing at random tanks doing X DPS and i just want to say something really bad at them just out of spite.

Edit 2: I think S-E was right on the money with Coil when it came to mitigation, healing and DPS requirements. Shame it went downhill during and after Alex regarding raid design philosophy in this game.

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I wouldn't say it 'went downhill'. In 2.0 players were bad. Tanks often wore full parry gear because most people honestly thought it was good, not because it was ACTUALLY good. Back before there were parsers, stat weights (though those have been replaced by better means too) people just fumbled around and took shots in the dark on how to play. Stance dancing didn't exist. Coordination between party members was bad. Damage was a complete unknown.

We didn't have the knowledge we do now. World 1st groups trash new raids in a matter of hours or days because we understand how to play better. The 1st few raids took significantly longer to clear for world 1st and regular groups because we were ignorant and bad. SE upped the DPS requirements in alex, but dropped them right back down for sigma/delta. The fights today have really, really low bars for DPS relative to what players can actually achieve. The playerbase just got better and Turtle Tanks got left behind.

This to me was more a result of the golden age of a new MMO. The 1st couple patches when everything is new, everyone is bad, and no one knows anything. Vanilla WoW. FFXI at JP (and again at NA) release. FFXIV 2.X. The early days are always played completely differently because people don't understand the game well enough to optimize. Over time these fresh experiences and innovative times fizzle out because theres no innovation when the game is unpacked and analyzed. It just steadily marches towards optimization.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

The 1st few raids took significantly longer to clear for world 1st and regular groups because we were ignorant and bad..

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I'd argue it was because mechanics were obscure AF.

Notice how Fireball from Twintania hasn't made a return, or Dive Bombs are now only in uniform areas as well as the starting point clearly telegraphed? Boss Arenas are strictly circular or Square and flat?

I personally find tanking "not very interesting" (but not boring) in FF14 because you're just a subpar dps with a few CD you pop there and there.

Looking at forums, tanks only think about their dps, in game they only think about their dps.
In other words, most tank play as dps. (the only difference is that the boss is on them)

If the tank survival was a more active task, I would find it more interesting.
For instance, The Blackest Night is my favorite skill by miles in SB.(for tanks)
It absorbs quite a lot, has a short cd and requires timing, in otherwords, a poorly executed TBN will do little whereas a good one will significantly improve your survival.

For me at the very least, if tank were more centered around actively caring about their survival (to the point where you'd see a huge difference between a good and bad tank like you do for dps performing well or poorly) I'd find them interesting and more fun to play.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

I'd argue it was because mechanics were obscure AF.

Notice how Fireball from Twintania hasn't made a return, or Dive Bombs are now only in uniform areas as well as the starting point clearly telegraphed? Boss Arenas are strictly circular or Square and flat?

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They weren't any more difficult to follow, however, than any other form of stack symbol or non-indicated linear AoE made since, however. They could as easily have made fireball the stack marker we typically see today; they simply opted for something a bit more obvious due to both added size and therein room for appendable arrow elements to indicate directionality. The returning charge on the chariot fight of Rab, while insignificant, also follows the same linear AoE pattern without any zonal indicator. There's also a large difference between no zonal indicator and "not clearly telegraphed". At most, T9 experienced the latter. Twin's dives were straightforward.

Personally I hugely miss the idea of an arena not necessarily being perfectly square or circular.

I've never had a problem with tanking really. I like that I can out dps a dps and help carry dps if need be.

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Originally Posted by Luin

Second of all, Dark Knight is the worst example for this. You literally have zero mitigation outside of roleactions until Level 70 (Dark Mind doesn't count, most trash isn't magic AA). You also lost most of your Level 50-60 kit and it was reworked into 60-70 kit.

DRK isn't even remotely playable until 68.

If you wanted to talk about tanking being boring, you should level WAR. Or even PLD. Heck I especially recommend PLD. You'll clearly see just how inferior DRK is, especially since DRK is literally JUST a carboncopy of Paladin but with none of the defensive cooldowns or DoT, and only 1 stance instead of 2. DRK is just PaladinLITE, until you get The Blackest Night. Leveling DRK is the worst leveling in the game.

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Shadow Wall is innate to DRK (learned at lv46), and Dark Mind does count whether you like it or not. Both abilities are learned prior to level 50, so a DRK does not have to get to max level to learn how to use these abilities effectively. And by the time they do get to max level, they will separate themselves from sheep DRKs having learned how to use them optimally.

I get that you're totally bitter right now, but your opinion does not reflect the true state that DRK is in, it merely echoes everyone's frustrations with it. The fact of the matter is that the job can perform its role in any content just fine. If its current design bores you, that is fine but don't go off saying it isn't even playable until xx level.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Shadow Wall is innate to DRK (learned at lv46), and Dark Mind does count whether you like it or not. Both abilities are learned prior to level 50, so a DRK does not have to get to max level to learn how to use these abilities effectively. And by the time they do get to max level, they will separate themselves from sheep DRKs having learned how to use them optimally.

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yeah true, there are some ice spirits in stone- and dusk vigil where you can use dark mind and uhm... ... ... ... ...lots... of other opportunities to learn how to use dark mind before hitting 70!

i play DRK since 2015 and still have no idea how to tell what is magical and what is physical. i know when i parry it's physical. and when i use dark mind and didn't get one shottet it's probably magical... or not... who knows? hard to tell without a combat analysis program. at least there are guides and kill videos where i can see when people use dark mind for tank busters...

but dark mind is basically non existant for casuals in casual content, because it's simply too difficult to use it properly due to the fact that the game doesn't tells you what damage is incoming and how properly you are mitigating.

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Originally Posted by Tint

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Combat log in chat window.

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Originally Posted by Tint

yeah true, there are some ice spirits in stone- and dusk vigil where you can use dark mind and uhm... ... ... ... ...lots... of other opportunities to learn how to use dark mind before hitting 70!

i play DRK since 2015 and still have no idea how to tell what is magical and what is physical. i know when i parry it's physical. and when i use dark mind and didn't get one shottet it's probably magical... or not... who knows? hard to tell without a combat analysis program. at least there are guides and kill videos where i can see when people use dark mind for tank busters...

but dark mind is basically non existant for casuals in casual content, because it's simply too difficult to use it properly due to the fact that the game doesn't tells you what damage is incoming and how properly you are mitigating.

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My DRK is level 60. So by your logic, I don't know how to use Dark Mind. Let's never mind that my DRK was 60 before 4.0. Let's never mind that many players have friends to run outdated content synced or at min ilv. Do you really believe that players are incapable of reading a tooltip, and learning how to play the game in anything but savage/ultimate?

If I'm healing a DRK and he/she throws up Dark Mind against the elementals in Stone/Dusk Vigil or Pharos Sirius, guess what I am going to know about that player? I am going to know that they know how to use Dark Mind. No, it isn't necessary to use it here, I can heal through the damage easily if they don't. But they fact that they used it there, and only there tells me they know what they're doing. It also tells me they don't go complacent in casual content, which is a really good way to get my comm. Leading by example is a really great way to get players to learn things properly, and it makes no difference which content this is.

Learning what attacks are physical/magic based comes with experience. This doesn't apply to all attacks but generally speaking, auto attacks are physical, and if the mob has to cast it, good chance it is magical. But it doesn't take a genius to deduce one attack from the other. What the game doesn't offer immediately is available in hindsight. You as a player, have the ability to record your playthroughs and look at your battle logs. You don't, and shouldn't wait until level 70 and toughing it out with Kefka God mode to do this. Having Dark Mind on muscle memory should happen WELL before that.