New Year's Poem 2018

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Originally Posted by Remedi

Tbh the Roman Emperors had to lead the military mostly because they were generals before, one of the problems of the empire was that the legions pledged their loyalty to their generals and not on Rome so military coups were quite common.

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Not all Roman Emperors were ex-generals. For a time after Julius Caesar, the Emperor was chosen by birthright or appointed by the previous Emperor. This is how they got nutcases like Caligula and Nero as Emperors. (Historians debate whether Caligula was just that crazy because he was crazy or because he was mocking the idea of giving one man so much power, and whether Nero really was the incompetent despot history paints him as... but I digress.) It was only after the Empire began to decline that most Emperors became as such through military might and coups.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Varis may be ruthless, though it is unlikely that he takes pleasure in being ruthless.

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Whether he takes pleasure in it or not is irrelevant. He is a ruthless despot who is willing to use his own son as a (seemingly unwitting) lab rat and (apparently) not care that he died due to being an unworthy successor. That should tell you a lot about Varis' character.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Zenos, however, actively tormented his own allies just as frequently as he tormented his enemies...and he most certainly was not working for Garlemald's benefit as he did very little to prevent not one but two territories to be liberated. That is precisely why his father branded his heir a monster. I also believe the '...' at the start of his speech writing off Zenos combined with his expression at the time is indicative of him feeling sadness for how things turned out yet keeping his guard up to prevent showing Elidibus any sign of weakness or hesitation.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Yeah, Zenos being completely deranged is worthy of dismissal. With that said, there's the use of '...' at the start of his sentence which suggests he feels something. Added to Elidibus stating that he wants to 'comfort' Varis then it could be that Varis does wish that things had turned out differently with Zenos...

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I doubt he's emotionless - he likely just guards his emotions well...especially around someone like Elidibus.

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If you repeat an argument enough times, it might become the truth! /sarcasm

Unlike certain posters here, however, I simply do not assume the worst about every single antagonist in the game. I'm certain that there will be much more to Varis' motives and character than is initially apparent. It wasn't so long ago that a lot of people on this board were convinced that Regula was going to be a straight up Kefka reference. That did not end up being the case at all.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Not all Roman Emperors were ex-generals. For a time after Julius Caesar, the Emperor was chosen by birthright or appointed by the previous Emperor. This is how they got nutcases like Caligula and Nero as Emperors. (Historians debate whether Caligula was just that crazy because he was crazy or because he was mocking the idea of giving one man so much power, and whether Nero really was the incompetent despot history paints him as... but I digress.) It was only after the Empire began to decline that most Emperors became as such through military might and coups.



Whether he takes pleasure in it or not is irrelevant. He is a ruthless despot who is willing to use his own son as a (seemingly unwitting) lab rat and (apparently) not care that he died due to being an unworthy successor. That should tell you a lot about Varis' character.





If you repeat an argument enough times, it might become the truth! /sarcasm

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Yes, how dare he mimic your own strategy.

As for Varis, you're basing your post on incomplete knowledge about the situation and your assessment is therefore mostly gibberish. Elidibus - and not Varis - referred to the whole situation as an experiment, most likely beginning at the point he gave Ilberd the two spheres. We are not sure what he meant by this or how Varis is meant to have understood it. If it was a test to see if his son was ready for the throne one day, I fail to see the issue with it. He did not care that he died because he considered Zenos to be a monster. He was not wrong and Zenos clearly did not care very much about Garlemald, as such. Whether it something that came about due to Aulus's or Elidibus's experiments, or whatnot, who knows.

What it does tell me about Varis is that he is not someone who will idly bestow worth upon someone simply due to blood ties.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

The issue with that angle is that Elidibus is a schemer (or as senpai puts it, a snake); he doesn't make direct actions or force things to happen. He nudges, he whispers, he manipulates - leading a military coup sounds extremely out of character for him.

Elidibus doesn't need to lead a coup against Varis. He's already gotten him to insist on binding eikons instead of eliminating them, create supersoldiers capable of using the Echo like Dragon Ball Super's Ultra Instinct at the cost of roughly 100 : 1, and biologically and cybernetically enhance what is implied to be a Garlean child into a cybernetic magitek monstrosity (Inferno) on top of all the other horrific things in Castrum Abania. If a parallel to previous FF antagonists must be made, I rank Varis as closer to President Shinra than Rufus. Lolorito is already fitting the bill of "morally ambiguous male antagonist who is redeemed and lives" (that's an extremely narrow character archetype, by the way) by helping the protagonists for his own ends rather than out of benevolence. Do you believe it realistic for Varis to do the same, given the above things he has directly or indirectly consented to? Why is another character of the same (extremely specific) archetype needed (not that Varis is really morally ambiguous in light of his implicit consent to all of Zenos' horrific experiments)?

... past that, I am going to wait and see what 4.2 brings. The main chunk of it will probably have to do with Yotsuyu, Gosetsu, and be "4.1, Doma Style," but with information from the stinger guesses can gain accuracy.

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Yet again, more idle speculation dressed up as fact. We don't know what Elidibus's role in this is yet and the context of Elidibus's words is cryptic, at best. We do know that Aulus was dismissed by the Garlean imperial court and had to seek refuge in Zenos's domain to continue his experiments. Whether Varis allowed for all this to happen under Elidibus's manipulation, or whether it occurred in spite of his knowledge, is not known. I don't doubt we will see the Resonance come back in the future, since it does significantly level the playing field in terms of aetheric capacities for Purebloods, even with the downsides the prototype forms of it might have.

Trust you to try twist Varis's disgust at his son's actions into some kind of negative trait. Naturally, your post is laced with weasel words like "implicit consent", which you know you can't back up because the sole basis for it is a rather short, very cryptic cutscene at the end of the MSQ for SB.

Elidibus has been fairly subtle in his activities, thus far, yet if Thordan was smart enough to see through Lahabrea's schemes, why would Varis not treat Elidibus with similar suspicion? So, if Varis is not really dancing to his tune, and puts up opposition, with Elidibus now bearing Zenos's assumed form, why is it not plausible that he might seek to take a more direct approach? We'll see what Elidibus is up to soon enough and how he intends to achieve it, assuming he has malevolent motives.

Varis is also stated to be a competent tactician within the lore book so I don't doubt that it would be difficult to outplay him. Furthermore, if anything Elidibus' words suggest that he seeks to bring 'comfort' to Varis and showed off a face that visibly unnerves the Emperor. If it turns out that it is Zenos or Regula that Elidibus has taken over and Varis goes along with it...then that puts yet another nail in the argument that he is cold and unfeeling anyway.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Setting aside that Zenos's actions were oft based on his father's (lack of) consent—why Zenos didn't attack the Wall, resorted to baiting the Alliance deeper into his own territory, went to Doma even though he didn't want to (and bailed as soon as Shinryu was found, saying that he'd fulfilled the letter of his orders and was thus beyond Varis's reporach), and was allotted a massive R&D budget on tech that is coincidentally exactly what Elidibus was proffering—I would argue that Elidibus's lines at the end don't leave an abundance of wiggle room for what the Emperor was ignorant of.

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This is assuming that Zenos was not claiming the budget for other purposes and then using them for the R&D in question. Ala Mhigo and Doma were particularly recalcitrant provinces, which is why the Emperor might have allowed his son control over them in the first place - to ensure they don't rebel again. Whether he was fully aware of all that went on or not, is unclear. As to Elidibus referring to him as a test subject... the context is entirely unclear. That he did not have questions about it could be due to the fact that Elidibus had already made him aware of the chain of actions that led to Zenos empowering himself and giving rise to Shinryu, which the Emperor might at that point have allowed if it got the WoL off the Empire's case. It is true, he did not seem surprised at the choice of wording, but the whys and wherefores are in the dark.

I don't really disagree with your broader assessment as to how things might pan out for the Empire, but it's not a fait accompli just yet. There's too many missing threads to conclude much about the Emperor's role in it yet. On the one hand, he did not see his son as fit to sit on a throne, precisely because he considered him to be a monster, he opposed Project Meteor and you have to consider the fact that a man as honourable as Regula was very loyal to him on a personal level. On the other hand, he does exercise some level of censorship and he wishes to subjugate the Eikon threat and its causes by any means. With what happened in the Dragonsong War, you can certainly see why the Empire has even more reason now to worry about how Eikons can arise than it did before. I had suspected they might pull a Kefka when the Warring Triad came in with Regula, yet they haven't. If they substitute Varis with a more palatable choice later on, if/when the Empire chooses to work with the Eorzean Alliance, so be it.

Yes, it's interesting that Elidibus repeated the same line to him that he had to "us", and it might be that he had more success convincing Varis than the WOL or indeed Urianger, yet this is an individual even more cynical about aetheric entities like Primals than Thordan was. I have trouble believing he will simply fall prone to the "well this Ascian sure seems like a good guy!" line of reasoning. If deceit is their hallmark, why not assume the worst of Elidibus from the outset? He most likely will, particularly having seen Thordan's fate, and his son's own. So we'll see if he is just playing ball for appearances' sake, whilst it benefits the Empire, like Thordan did with Lahabrea.

All we have for now are speculative threads to go off and given how much SE can surprise us with the twists and turns they take, I would say a dose of scepticism remains reasonable at all times.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Ihre Geschichten, die leset hier
Your histories, read (gleaned) here.

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"Ihre" translates to "Their". I presume the warriors are being addressed here.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Unlike certain posters here, however, I simply do not assume the worst about every single antagonist in the game. I'm certain that there will be much more to Varis' motives and character than is initially apparent.

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Don't take this the wrong way, but would you assume the same way if the antagonist in question was not in any way affiliated with the Garleans? People can be biased about their favorites. Just look at me and all my posts regarding Othard.

That being said I prefer my villains to be complex (as in: not Kefka)

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Originally Posted by BunnyChain

"Ihre" translates to "Their". I presume the warriors are being addressed here.

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It can also mean "your" if you are being polite. Studied german for 8 years plus another 2 years for my translation MA.

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Originally Posted by Balipu

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Absolutely. Ilberd is one of my favourite antagonists in this game - his desire to free his homeland was a noble cause, though one severely misguided due to the methods he chose to make use of. Over time, he became increasingly deranged and beyond salvation - though he had a huge impact upon various aspects of the story. He also served to knock Raubahn down a few pegs and succeeded at lopping off one of his limbs. He left a lasting impression, in other words.

As for Garlemald, I'm certainly rather fond of all things related to it. Though I'm not nearly as biased as some people here like to make out. My favourite characters and factions are much more varied than that and I frequently switch between role-playing a Pureblood Garlean and role-playing a Hingan adventurer. As some would have noticed, I suspect, due to how often my character's avatar and name changes.

At the moment, my current favourite character overall is Hien.

I think Varis may very well be an antagonist with valid reasons from his perspective. That said, I still expect him to be an antagonist thought maybe not THE antagonist when we deal with Garlemald.